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A11y Slackers
Gitter Channel Archive 5th of August 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. garcialo
    Aug 05 02:52
    Is there a design pattern/best practice for how to create a "loading" modal/overlay?
  2. zakim-robot
    Aug 05 04:41
    [jitendra, a11y] http://lukyvj.github.io/accecss/
  3. stevefaulkner
    Aug 05 06:46
    @feather welcome to the cheap seats
  4. stevefaulkner
    Aug 05 08:23

    A11ySlackers chat log 4th of August 2015 - http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/040815.html

  5. stevefaulkner
    09:27
    cool, just realized you can link to a specific message in gitter timeline by selecting the timestamp
  6. garcialo
    09:27
    Hah, thanks for the plug, Steve. =)
  7. zakim-robot
    09:28
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Markup question, should this be considered a blockquote (without attribution): “<p>What if we told you that you can <em>achieve more</em> at Company in less time than at any other company.</p>”
  8. zakim-robot
    09:28
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] It reads as something someone might have said, so feels kind of weird putting it in a p.
  9. zakim-robot
    09:29
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] I don’t know if it is something someone has said, but it probably isn’t.
  10. zakim-robot
    09:29
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Well, maybe during copy writing…
  11. stevefaulkner
    09:29
    @garcialo interested to see what people say :smile:
  12. stevefaulkner
    09:30

    @MichielBijl

    The blockquote element represents content that is quoted from another source, optionally with a citation which must be within a footer or cite element, and optionally with in-line changes such as annotations and abbreviations.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element

  13. zakim-robot
    09:30
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] To make my question more generic: should text (based on context) be placed in a blockquote or q if it reads like a quote?
  14. garcialo
    09:30
    @stevefaulkner I was asking Jennison about it specifically and he desk ducked very well. What I'm looking at is a single-page-app, so I'm going to provide them with resources on making SPAs accessible.
  15. garcialo
    09:31
    But I am also interested, of course. =)
  16. StommePoes
    09:31
    Michiel, I use q wherever I have an inline quote
  17. StommePoes
    09:32
    It doesn't mean anything to any UAs that I know of, except that some add " with content attributes, so I'm neither gaining nor losing anyone's understanding by using a q inline rather than something else.
  18. StommePoes
    09:32
    W00ts, my marketer/designer told me to add Yet Another Carousel, and pointed to one called Glide.js, which is not, out of the box, usable with keyboard
  19. zakim-robot
    09:33
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Good point, I’ll put it in a blockquote and hope for the best
  20. StommePoes
    09:33
    I decided to make a GitHub issue for him and offered a pull request : ) jedrzejchalubek/Glide.js#108
  21. StommePoes
    09:33
    @Michiel the blockquote has p's on either side of it?
  22. StommePoes
    09:34
    I've closed p's to open blockquote, same as for before a list.
  23. stevefaulkner
    09:43

    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Good point, I’ll put it in a blockquote and hope for the best

    doesn't sound likes it fits definition of a blockquote

  24. stevefaulkner
    09:44
    if its quoted from another source :+1: if not :-1:
  25. StommePoes
    09:45
    oh wait, @Michiel do you mean air-quote stuff?
  26. StommePoes
    09:45
    <p>As they say, <q>It's a bug, not a feature</q>.</p> ?
  27. StommePoes
    09:45
    where honestly there is no real source
  28. zakim-robot
    09:53
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Hmm, sounds like my issue, yeah.
  29. zakim-robot
    09:53
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] But it’s probably nitpicking something that isn’t worth nitpicking about
  30. StommePoes
    09:53
    Actually, are you actually putting quotes around it? Most marketing sentences like that don't
  31. StommePoes
    09:53
    I think our new site is going to be filled with that kind of stuff, and none of it is considered quotes.
  32. zakim-robot
    09:53
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] No, I am not
  33. zakim-robot
    09:54
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] So it’s not visualised as a quote
  34. StommePoes
    09:54
    Then I'm with steve, doesn't sound like a markup-worthy quote, just a p
  35. zakim-robot
    09:54
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] will revert it now…
  36. stevefaulkner
    10:02
    but <blockquote> has been misused for a millenia, so no big deal...
  37. StommePoes
    10:08
    Not for the reasons Michiel was thinking of using it :P
  38. zakim-robot
    10:11
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Mainly for obnoxious quotes from blokes
  39. zakim-robot
    10:11
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] blocks*
  40. StommePoes
    10:12
    blokequote
  41. zakim-robot
    10:13
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Not to mention galquote, littletimmyquote, and uncletedquote
  42. stevefaulkner
    10:35
    @LjWatson pingo
  43. LjWatson @LjWatson waves @stevefaulkner
  44. StommePoes @StommePoes waves at @LjWatson
  45. MichielBijl @MichielBijl waves at @StommePoes
  46. LjWatson @LjWatson waves @StommePoes
  47. MichielBijl @MichielBijl imagines a cat flying across the room
  48. StommePoes @StommePoes makes up for lack of wave @MichielBijl
  49. StommePoes
    10:57
    Also, I might be able to convince our marketer-designer to add the animated chicken from Ling's Cars website
  50. MichielBijl @MichielBijl feels like Donkey in Shrek while they're dining
  51. MichielBijl
    10:57
    @StommePoes this one: http://www.lingscars.com
  52. StommePoes
    10:58
    http://images.lingscars.com/images/header/webcams/chicken-ani.gif (alt="video? of brown chicken walking back and forth, clucking and... doing chicken stuff, I guess")
  53. StommePoes
    10:58
    yeah
  54. StommePoes
    10:58
    @MichielBijl you remember Havenworks?
  55. MichielBijl
    10:59
    Can't say that I do
  56. StommePoes
    11:00
    Imagine Ling's but then with a white background and all the text vaguely American-political.
  57. StommePoes
    11:00
    Left-wingish (democrat)
  58. StommePoes
    11:00
    It was amazing.
  59. StommePoes
    11:00
    So terrible.
  60. MichielBijl
    11:00
    I do vaguely remember a church website that did stuff like that
  61. StommePoes
    11:00
    Well, looks like 9292.nl still have not fixed their cookie popup to work with keyboard. I am disappoint.
  62. StommePoes
    11:00
    Oh you mean dokimo
  63. MichielBijl
    11:01
    Can't for the life of me remember the name.
  64. StommePoes
    11:01
    http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/
  65. StommePoes
    11:01
    You may need an old browser to see it
  66. StommePoes
    11:02
    Looks like newer ones get a bunch of chinese, but Opera12 still shows it in most of its glory. You need a proper browser like IE6 or 7 to get all the animations correct though.
  67. MichielBijl
    11:02
    Let us try IE6 :p
  68. StommePoes
    11:02
    The cat should run across the bottom entirely in that one.
  69. StommePoes
    11:02
    in Opera the cat is half broken.
  70. StommePoes
    11:02
    This is another good one for IE6 http://www.goer.org/htmlhorror/htmlhorror1.html
  71. MichielBijl
    11:02
    Regarding 9292, shouldn't expect much from this conversation on Twitter than…: https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/627560089377992706
  72. StommePoes
    11:03
    that is actually an error error
  73. StommePoes
    11:03
    They do usually post walking times
  74. StommePoes
    11:03
    For example, from jaarbeurs to centrum sides of Utrecht Centraal, 8 minutes walking
  75. StommePoes
    11:04
    so that page you got really is a real error, unless it's seriously a 1 minute walk.
  76. StommePoes
    11:04
    And that could be a fout from their coordinates they're grabbing, at least one of them is incorrect.
  77. MichielBijl
    11:04
    They should just display the bloody times; if I wanted to get walking directions, I would use maps or something.
  78. StommePoes
    11:05
    Usually even when "within walking distance" there's also a map "view route"
  79. StommePoes
    11:06
    If their coordinates show that they are less than 1 minute from each other then you would at best see 1 minute walking
  80. StommePoes
    11:06
    If you say it's 15 minutes then the page actually has an error.
  81. StommePoes
    11:06
    Rather than a bad decision on their part.
  82. MichielBijl
    11:06
    It was from Arnhem station to the nearest Albert Heijn (about 900 meters)
  83. StommePoes
    11:07
    That ought to be several minutes, so likely they have incorrect coords for the station (perhaps they use where the AH is as "station" coords)
  84. StommePoes
    11:07
    It'll say "5 minutes" for crossing the perron at like Amsterdam ArenA to go from one track to another
  85. StommePoes
    11:07
    (also because the coords are off a bit, sideways)
  86. MichielBijl
    11:07
    Hmm, then they need to fix their shit
  87. StommePoes
    11:08
    Yeah I don't know where they get their coords from, I assumed from NS etc
  88. StommePoes
    11:08
    They need to fix that cookie popup. I can't use the site without clicking it with a mouse
  89. StommePoes
    11:08
    I could prolly use it with a screen reader though.
  90. MichielBijl
    11:10
    This is the route: https://www.here.com/directions/walk/Stationsplein-154,-6811-KL-Arnhem,-Netherlands:51.98394,5.90192/Velperbuitensingel-6,-6828-CT-Arnhem,-Netherlands:51.98293,5.9149?map=51.98353,5.90849,16,pedestrian
  91. MichielBijl
    11:10
    That's even close to each other.
  92. StommePoes
    11:12
    http://9292.nl/reisadvies/arnhem_stationsplein/arnhem_velperbuitensingel-6/vertrek/2015-08-05T1215
  93. StommePoes
    11:12
    however, I did pick the addresses they preferred in the dropdown.
  94. MichielBijl
    11:13
    This was about the mobile app, had not tested the website.
  95. StommePoes
    11:13
    though... bekijk looproute looks pretty silly path to me
  96. StommePoes
    11:13
    oh, yeah they told me to "use the mobile app" to get around the cookie thing. But I don't have a smart phone, so not an option for me.
  97. MichielBijl
    11:14
    What is the problem again?
  98. MichielBijl
    11:14
    That looproute looks weird, but the whole station is messed up. And 9292 walk routes are not based on real routes, just estimated guesses AFAIK
  99. StommePoes
    11:16
    I think so, yes.
  100. StommePoes
    11:16
    The problem is on the website, a "hi we use cookies!" popup appears.
  101. StommePoes
    11:16
    If you tab, you tab into the page hidden by the cookie
  102. StommePoes
    11:16
    cookie popup
  103. MichielBijl
    11:17
    Yeah, it takes about 5 million tabs to get to it.
  104. StommePoes
    11:17
    oh, it must be at the bottom
  105. MichielBijl
    11:18
    It is before the footer in the source order; so the 4 quintillion links in the footer come first (if you tried to do shift+tab).
  106. zakim-robot
    11:47
    [jitendra, a11y] App Bar — Web Fundamentals 2015-08-04 18-44-47
  107. simonhudson
    12:49
    :point_up: August 5, 2015 10:57 AM Have you viewed the source of lingscars.com? Frightening.
  108. StommePoes
    12:52
    bril-jant
  109. StommePoes
    12:52
    love it
  110. StommePoes
    12:52
    <!--[if IE 6]>
  111. zakim-robot
    12:56
    [Rick Brown, a11y] wow that website is AWESOME!
  112. zakim-robot
    12:56
    [Rick Brown, a11y] omg!
  113. StommePoes
    12:56
    isn't it?
  114. zakim-robot
    12:56
    [Rick Brown, a11y] i'm taking that for show and tell at work tomorrow
  115. StommePoes
    12:56
    there's an animated chicken just... being a chicken
  116. zakim-robot
    12:56
    [Rick Brown, a11y] rofl
  117. StommePoes
    12:56
    Oh, scroll through the history and take some others
  118. StommePoes
    12:57
    tho some need old browsers to truly show their magnificence
  119. zakim-robot
    12:58
    [Rick Brown, a11y] but you know what, as terrible as the source may be it has: 1. a doctype, 2. a lang attribute
    so in the first two lines it's already ahead of 50% of the world
  120. StommePoes
    12:58
    yeah
  121. StommePoes
    12:58
    there's actually been work on it recently, it's not all old
  122. StommePoes
    12:58
    Ling does this on purpose, and amazingly enough, she does good business with it.
  123. zakim-robot
    13:00
    [Rick Brown, a11y] oh man - the chicken. i'm dying - i think i woke my kids up :joy:
  124. StommePoes
    13:00
    I love the chicken, I want it to go on the 4MB light-grey-on-white-text company site we're building now
  125. zakim-robot
    13:03
    [Rick Brown, a11y] i'm trying to figure out how i can incorporate it into my work too - a bit difficult in federal government - a bit difficult everywhere really. shame, the web needs more chickens.
  126. StommePoes
    13:05
    same for the Feds as for us-- you hide it like a konami code
  127. StommePoes
    13:05
    "the web needs more chickens." <-- quoted for truth
  128. StommePoes
    13:06
    But the Oh Pointy Birds! one is also nice, if your browser is old enough not to block <blink> etc
  129. StommePoes
    13:06
    oh pointy birds, annoint my head.
  130. StommePoes
    13:07
    and the dokimos one unfortunately removed their "best viewed in Internet Explorer. Forget all other browsers, and say no to the web standards police" or something like that
  131. StommePoes
    13:07
    with a little animated rotating IE
  132. stevefaulkner
    13:50
    https://twitter.com/patrick_h_lauke/status/628893252108820480
  133. rodneyrehm
    13:53
    is it ok to blur an input element upon hitting the enter key?
  134. zakim-robot
    13:55
    [Robin Whittleton, a11y] What’s the use case?
  135. StommePoes
    13:55
    and where does focus go afterwards
  136. deborahgu
    13:55
    It's not expected behaviour, certainly; I'd expect the user to e confused.
  137. rodneyrehm
    13:59
    actually it’s required for iOS to hide the keyboard
  138. rodneyrehm
    13:59
    focus wouldn’t go anywhere, (so return to <body> being the activeElement)
  139. StommePoes
    14:00
    so... what's supposed to happen when a user hits enter on this input?
  140. StommePoes
    14:00
    are they brought to another page anyway or something?
  141. StommePoes
    14:02
    if there's any reason someone would want/need to get back to that input (whoops a accidentally a typo!), losing focus means the arduous trek back to the input.
  142. StommePoes
    14:02
    Possibly with mountain goats and sherpas, if it's a crappy or long page.
  143. stevefaulkner
    14:05
    https://twitter.com/patrick_h_lauke/status/628893252108820480
  144. StommePoes
    14:09
    A sneak peek at the jawsome that will be the new company site. I think I can read it a little, if I squint and cant some power words http://stommepoes.nl/work/sneakpeek_grey.png
  145. stevefaulkner
    14:10
    @StommePoes Great Work :sparkles:
  146. StommePoes
    14:11
    Oh don't thank me, this is bootstrap so the marketer can actually do this all by himself with classes and some inline styles :)
  147. StommePoes
    14:12
    he has the access to the HTML via a CMS
  148. StommePoes
    14:12
    @steve actually that reminds me, I should see if I can get a Cornify button on there
  149. stevefaulkner
    14:12
    :-)
  150. StommePoes
    14:17
    jawsome http://stommepoes.nl/work/sufficient_contrast.jpg
  151. stevefaulkner
    14:18
    @StommePoes looks uncluttered at least
  152. StommePoes
    14:19
    wide opens spaces
  153. powrsurg
    14:49
    So we have an SVG of a histogram that actually will actually read off the height of the bars in a way that represents what they mean and has been tested and works fine in NVDA. Did color blindness tests to ensure that the bars are distinguishable enough for users with various forms of color blindness (though it's a little hard for monochromacy/achromatopsia users) to indicate if they passed or failed (with different <text> content to indicate such). Recently we decided to add a bell curve line onto the graph. I'm struggling to determine if there is something we can/should be doing for this to in regards to a11y.
  154. MichielBijl
    14:51
    Nice work so far!
  155. powrsurg
    14:51
    I feel like there is no real way to relay that information as it really is purely visual, and they have text information for all of the pertinent data. Should I just simply give it a role="presentation"?
  156. zakim-robot
    14:52
    [monastic.panic, a11y] hi folks
  157. zakim-robot
    14:53
    [monastic.panic, a11y] I have a muliselect component: http://jquense.github.io/react-widgets/docs/#/multiselect that I am trying to get up to par on a11y
  158. zakim-robot
    14:54
    [monastic.panic, a11y] my concern is that items in the list are removed from the popup when selected, so I am not sure how expose the selected values to a SR
  159. stevefaulkner
    14:57
    @powrsurg what useful info does the bellcurve convey?
  160. MichielBijl
    14:57
    https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#autocomplete
  161. MichielBijl
    14:57
    That is a link to the ARIA Authoring Practices for autocomplete
  162. zakim-robot
    14:58
    [monastic.panic, a11y] thanks :simple_smile: I've seen that, and am pretty inline with other widgets, this case tho it doesn't seem to cover
  163. zakim-robot
    14:58
    [monastic.panic, a11y] if the selected item is not in the list
  164. powrsurg
    15:02
    @stevefaulkner That's what I'm trying to determine. A bell curve is at its height at the mean. With +/- 1 standard deviation it will cover 68% of data, +/- 2 standard deviations holds 95% of data, and so on.
  165. powrsurg
    15:03
    And that multi-select example just made me realize I think we have an autocomplete that doesn't have any ARIA info on it that I should fix up ....
  166. zakim-robot
    15:04
    [monastic.panic, a11y] I struggle with trying to figure out what SR's will read off as the value when the list is hidden/not even rendered
  167. zakim-robot
    15:04
    [monastic.panic, a11y] or like in virtual lists
  168. powrsurg
    15:04
    or nm it does.
  169. powrsurg
    15:05
    Install NVDA. It's free :)
  170. MichielBijl
    15:05
    @monastic.panic ah, right. I suppose it will read the text that is displayed?
  171. zakim-robot
    15:07
    [monastic.panic, a11y] going to reinstall JAWS and find out
  172. zakim-robot
    15:08
    [monastic.panic, a11y] uh i forgot that this takes like an hour
  173. powrsurg
    15:08
    @monastic.panic I tend to refer back to http://alistapart.com/article/accessibility-the-missing-ingredient for insight in that regard
  174. stevefaulkner
    15:08
    @monastic reminds me of a shuttle control http://files.paciellogroup.com/training/commonsamples/shuttle/index.html
  175. zakim-robot
    15:08
    [monastic.panic, a11y] why the heck isn't jaws free for developers
  176. stevefaulkner
    15:09
    use NVDA
  177. powrsurg
    15:11
    I'd assume everyone would say they're a developer if they made it free for developers
  178. zakim-robot
    15:29
    [monastic.panic, a11y] bah none of them are reading out the focused option
  179. zakim-robot
    15:49
    [monastic.panic, a11y] well i cannot for the life of me get nvda to read out the focused item when it shifts :confused:
  180. powrsurg
    15:51
    aria-relevant="additions removals"?
  181. zakim-robot
    15:58
    [monastic.panic, a11y] hmm nope :confused:
  182. zakim-robot
    16:00
    [monastic.panic, a11y] maybe because the listbox is a child?
  183. zakim-robot
    16:06
    [monastic.panic, a11y] bah so it speaks when i move focus but it only ever reads the selected value
  184. zakim-robot
    16:51
    [monastic.panic, a11y] does nvda just not do anything with activedescendant?
  185. zakim-robot
    16:53
    [monastic.panic, a11y] this example works great: http://cookiecrook.com/test/aria/multiselect/listbox.html
  186. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [monastic.panic, a11y] whelp spelling it wrong will make it not work
  187. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [monastic.panic, a11y] doh
  188. zakim-robot
    18:59
    [monastic.panic, a11y] i want to throw my computer against the wall..
  189. zakim-robot
    19:00
    [monastic.panic, a11y] nvda won't read active descedants out if they don't already have id's
  190. zakim-robot
    19:00
    [monastic.panic, a11y] however http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/multiselect/index seems to work JUST FINE by generating a single id and moving it around
  191. stevefaulkner
    19:57
    @monastic what browser are you testing with?
  192. zakim-robot
    20:05
    [Val Head, a11y] Quick favour: If you use Chrome on Windows can you let me know if this Animation Policy extension works for you? https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/animation-policy/ncigbofjfbodhkaffojakplpmnleeoee/related?hl=en Some of the reviews suggest it doesn’t work, but it also doesn’t make it very clear which types of animation it works on. (It only affects gif and SVG animation which could easily lead to some confusion.)
  193. zakim-robot
    20:08
    [Val Head, a11y] I only have access to my macbook right now and it appears to work. Only on animated .gifs and SMIL animated SVG. :simple_smile:
  194. techthomas
    20:23
    Val Head, what test page should i try it on
  195. techthomas
    20:26
    @alice Wanted to give you a shoutout for the Chrome extension that does the interactive DOM change of the color contrast values for AA and AAA. Shawn Lauriat demonstrated it at our meetup last night. Wish it was more discoverable, I’ll definitely be using it now and in the future!
  196. zakim-robot
    20:28
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @techthomas: Thank you! I wish it was more discoverable too :confused:
  197. zakim-robot
    20:44
    [monastic.panic, a11y] everyone suggests alt+down to open combobox but that seems to do a specific thing in nvda
  198. zakim-robot
    20:48
    [monastic.panic, a11y] which is all to say i have no idea how to use a screen reader
  199. zakim-robot
    20:58
    [Val Head, a11y] @techthomas: try http://codepen.io/valhead/pen/OPMpbv (SVGs) and http://giphy.com/ for gifs
  200. zakim-robot
    21:01
    [Val Head, a11y] @techthomas: (only the first SVG of those three should stop animating via the extension. The other two don’t use SMIL )
  201. zakim-robot
    21:48
    [monastic.panic, a11y] anyone how I might indicate to a SR what values are selected in a chosen/select2 like widget?
  202. zakim-robot
    21:49
    [Karl Groves, a11y] @monastic.panic: Live Region
  203. zakim-robot
    21:49
    [monastic.panic, a11y] right now i have a listbox that has the values, its labeled but they aren't announced when the widget focuses
  204. zakim-robot
    21:50
    [Karl Groves, a11y] take a look at jQueryUI autocomplete. IMO it is the best implementation of that behavior. Autocomplete in general totally sucks eggs for accessibility. Even native desktop autocomplete sucks
  205. zakim-robot
    21:53
    [monastic.panic, a11y] o wow that's intense...and confusing
  206. zakim-robot
    21:53
    [monastic.panic, a11y] its keeping a log of messages?
  207. zakim-robot
    22:04
    [monastic.panic, a11y] does the native multiple select really not read all the selected values?
  208. zakim-robot
    22:04
    [monastic.panic, a11y] that seems really bad
  209. zakim-robot
    22:06
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @jessebeach: 8/13 sounds good! (https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/general/p1438726966003197)
  210. zakim-robot
    22:41
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @alice: neat! Can we meet up at your office? Or off-campus works, too. I'm hoping maybe 3 or 4 more people would join us.
  211. zakim-robot
    22:42
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] What kind of space do you think we'll want?
  212. zakim-robot
    22:55
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @jessebeach: ^
  213. zakim-robot
    22:58
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @alice: quiet, whiteboard, couches/chairs.
  214. zakim-robot
    22:58
    [dylanb, a11y] @jessebeach: @alice you guys are just making me jealous now
  215. zakim-robot
    23:00
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @jessebeach: Let me look into it - I should be able to get us something here.
  216. zakim-robot
    23:00
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] neat!
  217. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] For whoever’s @Here , what are people’s thoughts on overriding the existing keyboard shortcut Ctrl+F for a more app-tailored search function?
  218. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [callumacrae, a11y] I did that once, and even from a non-accessibility point of view, it made everyone very cross
  219. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Alex Sexton, a11y] always bad when it's happened to me
  220. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] I’m not finding a lot of info online on overrides
  221. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Alex Sexton, a11y] yea, completely from a non-accessibility standpoint
  222. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [callumacrae, a11y] http://caniuse.com/ used to do it and stopped
  223. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Alex Sexton, a11y] hackpad used to do it and stopped
  224. zakim-robot
    23:38
    [Helena Zubkow, a11y] I'm personally always against overriding any natural behaviors
  225. zakim-robot
    23:39
    [Alex Sexton, a11y] not before 10 chrome plugins to stop it from happening popped up
  226. zakim-robot
    23:39
    [Matt Claypotch, a11y] kurafire: if 100% of your content is not on screen at any given time, and it’s mostly non-text, then still probably not
  227. zakim-robot
    23:39
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] Context: this is for a very niche group of enterprise users in a limited enterprise deployment
  228. zakim-robot
    23:40
    [som, a11y] sites regularly override the context menu
  229. zakim-robot
    23:40
    [Matt Claypotch, a11y] kurafire: it definitely violates principle of least surprise in browsers
  230. zakim-robot
    23:41
    [som, a11y] .. especially in an application experience .. eg. AWS console
  231. zakim-robot
    23:41
    [som, a11y] also the “enter” to submit on forms
  232. zakim-robot
    23:43
    [Matt Claypotch, a11y] in my experience, it’s usually okay to override shortcuts that are both file menu and file oriented, like Cmd+S and Cmd+O, but not much else
  233. zakim-robot
    23:43
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] @potch: Yeah and that’s my main issue with it, the whole “least surprise” bit
  234. zakim-robot
    23:43
    [som, a11y] not to say it isn’t a headache when you’re not expecting it, but if it’s clear to the user and works than why not?
  235. zakim-robot
    23:43
    [Matt Claypotch, a11y] som: if I lost the ability to find text in that page it would be annoying
  236. zakim-robot
    23:43
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] Client is asking for it; @teacup is being voice of reason, what neither of us can find though is a very distinct _accessibility_related reason
  237. zakim-robot
    23:44
    [som, a11y] you don’t lose the ability, just the shortcut
  238. zakim-robot
    23:44
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] yeah
  239. zakim-robot
    23:44
    [som, a11y] but i agree
  240. zakim-robot
    23:44
    [som, a11y] you would expect the override to perform a similar function
  241. zakim-robot
    23:45
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] It would extend it, is the idea
  242. zakim-robot
    23:46
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] instead of simply searching within the current DOM tree, it intelligently searches within the documents open in the page as well as (optionally) related documents not actually currently open (as in, in the DOM), but that could be toggled on to be shown
  243. zakim-robot
    23:47
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] In any case, thanks for the feedback everyone :smiley:
  244. zakim-robot
    23:47
    [monastic.panic, a11y] anyone know why a SR would not pass keyboard events through for a focused 'role=radiogroup'
  245. zakim-robot
    23:48
    [som, a11y] @kurafire .. if you’re really having trouble you could always override it the first time but give the user the option to disable the override
  246. zakim-robot
    23:49
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] @som: Yep, user choice between Ctrl/Cmd + Shift + F or without the Shift is our current plan; great idea on making it a toggle upon first use
  247. zakim-robot
    23:49
    [som, a11y] .. or the other way around: so it’s an opt-in experience
  248. zakim-robot
    23:52
    [monastic.panic, a11y] man this stuff is like black magic