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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 23rd of November 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. MichielBijl
    Nov 23 00:01
    https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/ includes a lot of helpful tips too :)
  2. zakim-robot
    Nov 23 01:16
    [rodneyrehm] has anyone ever heard of http://whatsock.com/ or even used it? »The AccDC API is a JavaScript based Dynamic Content Management System that automates the rendering of dynamic content to ensure accessibility for screen reader and keyboard only users. «
  3. StommePoes
    10:38
    whatsock is Bryan Garavanta's site
  4. StommePoes
    10:39
    he builds lots of tools there. I've heard good things, but his visual aria plugin seemed to give me weird results on a page I tested it on once.
  5. StommePoes
    10:39
    And someone needs to style some of his examples, he can't see that the scrollbars cover text in some cases.
  6. StommePoes
    10:41
    @rodneyRehm
  7. zakim-robot
    10:42
    [rodneyrehm] I’ve tried understanding how I can use AccDC - but other than (sort of) understanding what it does by looking at the demos, I have no idea how to make use of it
  8. StommePoes
    10:42
    Hm, this is new to me too-- I'm used to that site showing ARIA examples, explanations and demos.
  9. zakim-robot
    10:43
    [rodneyrehm] Am I right to assume that it is some sort of framework (as opposed to a library), that I use in a way similar to angular? i.e. base my application on it
  10. MichielBijl
    12:06
    @StommePoes did you get my PM?
  11. StommePoes
    13:37
    Oh, apparently I did @MichielBijl, hadn't noticed this setup has those things
  12. StommePoes
    14:38
    aw https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1227124 : (
  13. MichielBijl
    14:39
    You get instant notifications when Joanie posts a bug?
  14. StommePoes
    14:40
    no, had to reply to a mail from last week and always see my other non-work mails
  15. StommePoes
    14:40
    she posted to Orca-list
  16. MichielBijl
    14:41
    Ah
  17. MichielBijl
    14:55
    Anybody have an opinion on this: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0228.html
  18. MichielBijl
    14:55
    “How to make generated content selectable”
  19. MichielBijl
    14:57
    My reply: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0232.html
  20. StommePoes
    14:58
    Well, the reason people who like border-box have to add it to everything is legacy, right?
  21. StommePoes
    14:58
    Dunno if Florian can get rid of that.... all UAs would have to switch their default stylesheets
  22. StommePoes
    14:58
    which isn't impossible.
  23. MichielBijl
    14:59
    My question is fair I feel, is there any reason to keep it default to user-select: none
  24. MichielBijl
    15:00
    box-sizing should've defaulted to border-box. We could prevent having to add user-select to that list of “wrong default”
  25. StommePoes
    15:11
    You might have a better case for user-select than box-sizing: imagine how busted all my sites would be if browsers suddently switched? As a dev who's never had problems with the regular box model, I haven' even used the new/IE6 box model unless working on a site that already invoked it.
  26. StommePoes
    15:12
    I understand it's more intuitive for newbies, but I've never had a problem with the idea: I think of people sitting in chairs and being fat or not : P
  27. StommePoes
    15:13
    Whereas, I think if browsers suddenly allowed css content to be user-selectable, most sites wouldn't break in any obvious way. And probably not in non-obvious ways.
  28. StommePoes
    15:13
    hopefully... non-obvious bugs are teh wurst
  29. zakim-robot
    15:14
    [rodneyrehm] did I mess up my slack’s config or why are URLs not turned into links here?
  30. zakim-robot
    15:14
    [rodneyrehm] (maybe a problem with the pipe to gitter or whatever?)
  31. zakim-robot
    15:15
    [jdan] @rodneyrehm messages from gitter unfortunately don’t convert to links
  32. MichielBijl
    15:15
    That might be it.
  33. garcialo
    15:15
    Is that a new thing?
  34. StommePoes
    15:15
    when people via slack post links I see the link twice. Might be the same for the other way around (if I post a link, it might look like two links to you)
  35. zakim-robot
    15:15
    [rodneyrehm] ah, ok, bummer
  36. zakim-robot
    15:16
    [rodneyrehm] na, I get no link, only text url
  37. StommePoes
    15:16
    When someone via slack posts a link, I have to copy one of their links and paste in a new tab
  38. MichielBijl
    15:16
    @StommePoes sure, switching box-sizing would have broken all the things. User-select will not AFAIK.
  39. StommePoes
    15:16
    like it looks like (sometextyURL) [sometextyURL] without the \
  40. StommePoes
    15:16
    oh gitter removed it
  41. zakim-robot
    15:17
    [rodneyrehm] that looks like markdown, a bit at least
  42. zakim-robot
    15:17
    [rodneyrehm] [foo](https://google.com)
  43. StommePoes
    15:17
    Yeah it looks to me like attempted markdown that doesn't get marked down
  44. StommePoes
    15:17
    yeah
  45. StommePoes
    15:18
    That's what I see, text in square brackets and then URL in ()
  46. StommePoes
    15:18
    So it's some kind of mismatch, where Michiel and I are not using Slack (or, I don't see michiel being replaced by the zakim-bot) we see links
  47. StommePoes
    15:19
    in Pidgin I also got non-marked-down markdown, I thought it was pidgin but it's gitter.
  48. zakim-robot
    15:19
    [rodneyrehm] @michiel if the existing generated content spec never actually declared the content to be non-selectable, making it selectable by default should be fine, considering one can disable that using the user-select property. So, I’d go with simply switching to selectable by default.
  49. zakim-robot
    15:21
    [rodneyrehm] Plus, I don’t assume this would actually be an issue in the majority of websites…
  50. MichielBijl
    15:28
    Could you post to the list? Would be greatly appreciated :)
  51. zakim-robot
    15:28
    [rodneyrehm] lists don’t like me (actually my mailserver, but I pretend we’re one and the same)
  52. MichielBijl
    15:29
    If you just reply to Florian, Joanie and me, I'll repost it to the lists.
  53. zakim-robot
    15:29
    [rodneyrehm] great, so I now have to figure out how to do that
  54. zakim-robot
    15:30
    [rodneyrehm] … and then I saw “respont to this message” :smile:
  55. MichielBijl
    15:30
    :+1:
  56. zakim-robot
    15:31
    [rodneyrehm] how do I make mail.app go plaintext?
  57. zakim-robot
    15:31
    [rodneyrehm] command shift t
  58. MichielBijl
    15:32
    I always post rich text, seems to work…
  59. zakim-robot
    15:37
    [rodneyrehm] mail is sent…
  60. MichielBijl
    15:40
    I thank you in advance, or in hindsight, or…
  61. MichielBijl
    15:41
    I thank you is what I'm getting at.
  62. MichielBijl
    15:41
    I'll post it to the list :)
  63. MichielBijl
    15:41
    Once it lands in my inboxy thing
  64. zakim-robot
    15:43
    [rodneyrehm] … if it ever does
  65. StommePoes
    15:44
    "muhahahaha..."
  66. MichielBijl @MichielBijl ain't seeing nothing yet
  67. zakim-robot
    15:46
    [rodneyrehm] right… I replied to public-pfwg@w3.org - of course I did
  68. zakim-robot
    15:46
    [rodneyrehm] I suck at mailing lists…
  69. MichielBijl
    15:47
    Hehe
  70. MichielBijl
    15:47
    Mailing to michiel@agosto.nl, florian@rivoal.net, and jdiggs@igalia.com should do the trick
  71. MichielBijl
    15:48
    And I should really get a spam filter…
  72. zakim-robot
    15:48
    [rodneyrehm] ok, resent to the addresses given
  73. MichielBijl
    15:49
    Got it!
  74. zakim-robot
    15:49
    [rodneyrehm] I’ve always tried to stay away from those lists… and you ruined a pretty good run of 2 years)
  75. MichielBijl
    15:50
    Haha, I'm sorry.
  76. MichielBijl
    15:50
    But thank you for contributing.
  77. zakim-robot
    15:50
    [rodneyrehm] I expressed an opinion, I did not provide any facts. I don’t think that counts… :wink:
  78. MichielBijl
    15:51
    It's all opinions anyway. Some opinions are just backed by research
  79. MichielBijl
    16:12
    Let's see the hits toll in (as Cat Face would say)
  80. MichielBijl
    20:08
    I'm reading this article by @StommePoes (http://stommepoes.nl/pe.html) about progressive enhancement. It links to a discussion on SitePoint (https://www.sitepoint.com/community/t/are-we-in-a-scripting-dependency-backlash/175614). It is so meta that SitePoint actually uses PE and works without JavaScript.
  81. powrsurg
    20:21
    Hey, my work just published my blog post on Inclusive Design. Any thoughts? http://cypherworx.com/blog/inclusive-learning-needs-inclusive-design
  82. powrsurg
    20:58
    Oh yeah, and when did your Google Account preferences page get a section for turning a screen reader on and off?
  83. deborahgu
    21:02
    I think it's just the Google Docs setting
  84. deborahgu
    21:03
    and I can't remember why; there was some keyboard accessibility -related reason that I enabled it even though I'm not running a screen reader; it did something nice, at least at the time.
  85. MichielBijl
    21:04
    @powrsurg added to reading list :)
  86. powrsurg
    21:08
    thank you ... not really much I'd say, but was about us trying to be good
  87. powrsurg
    21:08
    a lot of the stuff I learned and made us question comes from stuff I've learned sitting in here
  88. powrsurg
    21:11
    I think we're the only ones writing media queries for 4x images where the images are generated in such a way they'll appear in Windows High Contrast mode
  89. MichielBijl
    22:03
    Is there a MQ for WHC?
  90. garcialo
    22:04
    What is MQ?
  91. garcialo
    22:04
    ...and what is WHC?
  92. garcialo
    22:04
    oh, I see...I should read things
  93. MichielBijl
    22:05
    Sorry
  94. MichielBijl
    22:05
    MQ = Media queries, WHC = Windows High Contrast mode
  95. garcialo
    22:05
    I'm not sure that I understand your question
  96. MichielBijl
    22:05
    But that did make sense if you read the last line of the previous paragraph :p
  97. garcialo
    22:06
    oh I see..guess I'm slow today
  98. MichielBijl
    22:06
    Can you detect Windows High Contrast Mode with a media query?
  99. garcialo
    22:06
    I don't think there is a specific one forthat
  100. MichielBijl
    22:06
    Because of what @powrsurg said.
  101. MichielBijl
    22:06
    But guess I'll have to read the article…
  102. MichielBijl
    22:07
    Nice talk by @edds; What even is a table (about accessibility API's): https://vimeo.com/139062429
  103. powrsurg
    22:09
    There is a media query that only works in Edge
  104. MichielBijl
    22:10
    @media (kill-me-now-because-these-aint-conditional-comments) {}?
  105. powrsurg
    22:10
    You can detect HCM with JavaScript
  106. MichielBijl
    22:10
    Ah
  107. stevefaulkner
    23:12
    @rodneyrehm @MichielBijl posting to the pF-public list is a waste of time for non pm members your email will get swallowed by a black hole never to be seen again 👎 I have raised an issue. About this but has not been fixed
  108. stevefaulkner
    23:13
    Non pm/non pf
  109. jnurthen
    23:13
    Yeah - pf only accepts mail from members if i recall correctly.
  110. jnurthen
    23:14
    there is a list called xtech which pf members are also on which accepts outside mail
  111. jnurthen
    23:14
    wai-xtech@w3.org
  112. stevefaulkner
    23:21
    @jnurthen the issue is supposedly going to be fixed in new aria group, has caused useful feedback from implementers to be lost
  113. zakim-robot
    23:23
    [rodneyrehm] yeah, I was just trying to do @michiel a solid. The W3 list have never worked for me - none of them, ever.
  114. MichielBijl
    23:30
    @stevefaulkner but someone with can just forward said e-mail no?
  115. MichielBijl
    23:31
    That's what I did anyway. Not sure if I was supposed to, but didn't see any reason not to.
  116. zakim-robot
    23:57
    [jdan] ooooh interactive tutorials from facebook! https://code.facebook.com/posts/1152362248125846
  117. zakim-robot
    23:58
    [jdan] thanks! (I know there are a few of you in here...)