Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 19th of April 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 07:10
    Late to the party, but yeah MichielBijl .htaccess can be nested on a per-directory level
  2. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 07:10
    It cascades ;)
  3. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 08:47
    Cascading HT Access
  4. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 08:56
    Good morning slackers
  5. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 08:58
    Mogge
  6. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 09:35
    That moment you find out the client uses IE9…and you forgot to make a fallback for your flexbox'
  7. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 09:56
    forgot?
  8. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 09:57
    I'm getting more and more curious about the Brave browser
  9. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 09:57
    newpapers claim it's republishing their stuff with Brave's ads. Brave says: "If it were the case that Brave's browsers perform "republication", then so too does Safari's Reader mode. The same goes for any browser with an ad-blocker extension installed, or the Links text-only browser, or screen readers for the visually impaired."
  10. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:11
    No, those are different.
  11. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:12
    Those don't replace ads on websites with their own.
  12. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:12
    Those simply remove it.
  13. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:12
    Safari's Reader View is not a browsing mode, it's not on by default, it's something you temporarily activate to read an article without the cruft.
  14. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:13
    What Brave does is closer to evil public networks that replace ads on your website.
  15. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:13
    Really, that is exactly where it is at.
  16. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:14
    It's an interesting idea, but it's mafia type level stuff.
  17. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:14
    It's the same as what AdBlocker does, sure, we'll show your ad; if you pay us to let it through.
  18. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:15
    “Sure, we'll keep those jobbo's out of your shop; if you pay us 30% of your income”
  19. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 10:15
    Pieter Hintjens has cancer =(
  20. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 10:16
    Don't get me wrong, I block all advertisement shamelessly. I'll gladly pay for good content; if that option is available.
  21. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 19 11:40
    This is awesome!!! Edge is supporting Speech Synthesis API! Made my day https://twitter.com/mrktps/status/722387200869036032
  22. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 12:18
    Bah, almost managed to get Bruce Lawson to attend our next a11y meetup. Too bad he was otherwise occupied.
  23. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 12:24
    I would use Brave if the micropayments thing worked. I don't want a subscription to any of the news orgs, but would gladly pay some cents per individual post I read.
  24. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 12:24
    I just don't read news…
  25. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 12:25
    It comes through my twittah all the time. I'm always reading something, just not from any one particular news org.
  26. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 12:25
    If it all came from one news org it would make sense to buy a subscription.
  27. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 12:25
    VPRO!
  28. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 12:26
    Dit. is de VPRO.
  29. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 12:27
    Muh childhood
  30. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:04
    @jpdevries If Edge gets SpeechRecognition support I'll be happy
  31. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:09
    In regards to the Brave stuff, I am surprised there isn't some form of copyright that is being broken with ad-removal in general, let alone replacing them with other ads.
  32. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 19 14:16
    @powrsurg ah so does that mean Edge will be able to read text to you but not support dictation (speech to text)?
  33. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:17
    It's like if someone were to replace physical ads with their own and then give then original advertiser a 55% cut of what they would've originally made.
  34. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:17
    SpeecRecognition is speech to text
  35. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:17
    It's very strange.
  36. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:18
    I think Firefox has support for text to speech (or will soon), but not the later
  37. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 14:18
    the difference is-- these ads don't have malware (they do track so the ads can be sold to advertisers to target demographics, tho "anonymised and not stored (supposedly)), they don't inhibit page load and don't drain your mobile battery or kill your monthly mobile plan.
  38. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 14:18
    Good to know powersurg, thanks
  39. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 14:18
    *powrsurg
  40. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:19
    I'm honestly betting Edge will do text to speech first too. Desktop chrome is currently the only one I know with speech to text.
  41. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 19 14:19
    good to know. I know Firefox supported the Luminosity API long before any other browsers. Actually I think they are still the only one to support it… I love that API
  42. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:20
    @StommePoes, sure, I don't agree with current ad technology (that's why I block them).
  43. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:20
    Guess the question is if you'd rather be a pirate or a mafiosi.
  44. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:20
    I keep forgetting that links in here don't open in a new tab ..
  45. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:20
    I'm a dinosaur; so I can do whatever.
  46. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 14:21
    I'd rather 1) not be tracked 2) not have my info stolen 3) not have malware installed on my machine and most importantly 4) be able to pay (with money, not data) for the content I consume
  47. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 14:21
    So... mafiosi
  48. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:21
    Fair enough
  49. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 14:21
    too capitalist to Tor...
  50. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:22
    okay, if they're doing speech synthesis they're doing text to speech. If they get speech recognition they do speech to text
  51. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:23
    I don't mind tracking for analytics (like Google Analytics). That helps site owners better understand their users. Ads? forget them
  52. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:26
    Now if Brave can track ads, can they also make skipping to below the ad accessible (See the Neiman Reports tweet Steve retweeted recently)
  53. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:26
    (trying to bring the conversation back to a11y :p )
  54. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:27
    I mind GA.
  55. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:27
    None of your business what I do.
  56. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:28
    Maybe i'm missing something. I'm a little confused about the results on this page: http://www.powermapper.com/tests/screen-readers/tables/table-role-presentation/ Isn't role=presentation the reason that screen readers just read out the content in the table 1 by 1 without noticing it has headings and cells?
  57. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:28
    Good afternoon by the way :)
  58. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:30
    Well, knowing stuff like how many people use the site that say, actually still use IE8 plays a roll in when you can decide to drop support for it.
  59. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:32
    I don't get that powermapper one.
  60. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:32
    It is supposed to ignore the table semantics.
  61. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:33
    Their results are backwards.
  62. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:33
    Ok thanks - than I know enough - Think somebody mistakenly thought the other way around.
  63. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:33
    Should be: Expected result: table is ignored and contents are read out one by one
  64. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:34
    Yesss - so only SaToGo with IE is the wrong one :)
  65. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:34
    Yeap
  66. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:35
    Glad the see that most screenreaders support role='presentation'
  67. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:36
    So ... someone should point out to them their results are backwards ...
  68. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 14:36
    @julezrulez not generally the screen reader that supports it but the browser.
  69. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:37
    @jnurthen Okay - they both support it ;-)
  70. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 14:37
    I think their point is that this is actually a data table and is an author error. The browsers are doing the right thing but there is an error in the content.
  71. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:38
    @powersurg: done.
  72. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:39
    @MichielBijl Ahhhhh your too fast - I was already typing....
  73. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:39
    ;)
  74. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:39
    I doubt it, but is anyone here familiar with setting Signed Cookies for securing content for an AWS CloudFront distribution?
  75. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:40
    crickets
  76. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:40
    @julezrulez hey, multiple people reporting the same error may get it fixed faster
  77. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 14:41
    Just reading back here it looks like my English is that bad :(
  78. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:42
  79. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:42
    Now it is gone, and the entire website is replaced by an inaccessible piece of shit.
  80. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:42
    @julezrulez: it's fine :) We can understand what you're saying.
  81. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:44
    @MichielBijl more of the point: set up 301 redirects when you do a site update
  82. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:47
    Thanks julezrulez.
  83. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:49
    Ha, so it is on some staging thingy :')
  84. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:50
    Brian, I can never remember how to write your nick.
  85. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 14:50
    I always write powersurge.
  86. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 14:52
    Powersurge sounds like an 80s superhero ;)
  87. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:52
    This is what I get for keeping a screenname I've used since 96 on a chat service that couldn't handle 9-digit screen names
  88. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 19 14:53
    It's actually based on an expansion pack to a super hero card game from the 90's :p
  89. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 14:59
    [poorgeek] Anyone ever seen a tic-tac-toe CAPTCHA like this before? https://support.advancedcustomfields.com/register/
  90. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 15:01
    Luckily they all read “visited link, register”…
  91. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 15:01
    I like the idea, but it's not made accessible :(
  92. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 15:01
    [poorgeek] yeah, it’s pretty horrible
  93. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 15:02
    [poorgeek] I appreciate that someone thought that people don’t like captions because they aren’t fun enough and tried to change that
  94. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 15:09
    Captcha's you mean?
  95. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:09
    poorgeek someone tried to make a "fun" one based on computer-generated images of human hands
  96. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 15:12
    nooo not /that/ thread
  97. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:14
    the Great Rage Thread
  98. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 15:15
    It's not accessible, though. I've mailed them about it, but don't expect improvement :-/
  99. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:17
    where is the captcha?
  100. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:17
    I see a web site
  101. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:17
    does one appear if you try to send a comment?
  102. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 15:17
    Scroll to the bottom
  103. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 15:18
    Resistor puzzle
  104. Jules Ernst
    @julezrulez
    Apr 19 15:31
    Here the results are what we expected in a second page of Powermapper, as I reported our findings of the other page: http://www.powermapper.com/tests/screen-readers/tables/table-role-presentation-layout-table/
  105. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:52
    My former boss had a progressbar example (two divs, one moved inside the other + aria stuff) and mentioned in her notes that VO only read anything out if the element was focussed.
  106. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 15:52
    However this would have been a few years ago so possibly isn't true anymore...?
  107. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 15:59
    that is I believe normal for progressbars
  108. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 16:00
    if you want updates to be read you would need to make it a live region of some sort
  109. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 16:55
    [marcysutton] Yes I am very bummed about substantial.com. It’s as if they never heard a word I said in the two years I worked there :( And to add insult to injury, they took down their entire blog including some of my most popular written content. I rescued that post on my website: https://marcysutton.com/how-i-audit-a-website-for-accessibility
  110. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 16:58
    At least my former workplace didn't pretend to listen to me-- they let me know up front that they gave 0 shits about a11y :P
  111. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 16:59
    [marcysutton] I’m still friends with many of those people :\
  112. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 16:59
    My colleagues were great, I still hang with one and talk with a few more... but they thought the whole a11y stuff was weird and fringe.
  113. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 19 16:59
    Can't convert everyone to the One True Faith and all...
  114. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 17:00
    [marcysutton] It is true, but it is still sad.
  115. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 17:01
    [marcysutton] Ordering whiskey on Distiller.com to be delivered at the office using Voiceover was still a highlight of my career though =D
  116. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 17:01
    [marcysutton] That was a fun feature to work on.
  117. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:04
    [techthomas] Hibiki or Yamazaki please! :)
  118. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:16
    [car] @michiel @jnurthen: For editorial comments in the ARIA docs, do you guys prefer to have Issues opened, or (if it's just simple stuff) Pull Requests? (I'm a github n00b, so I'm just trying to figure out "the best" way to do this)
  119. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:17
    Issue's are fine, but if you're confident enough you can do a PR :)
  120. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:17
    [car] Well, it was just a tiny wee typo. So fairly confident. <g>
  121. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:18
    Go for it!
  122. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:20
    [car] Already done. :) However, in the past few days, I opened some Issues with multiple editorial comments in them, and now that I've figured out (I think) how to do PR's, I can go back and submit some of those editorial comments as PR's. Would that be helpful?
  123. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:23
    [car] In future, I will open PR's whenever confidence > 50%, say. ;)
  124. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:23
    As long as they are in separate branches :)
  125. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:23
    We don't have the same editors for all docs in that repo.
  126. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:24
    So it's a pain to talk to all of em and figure out what to merge and what not.
  127. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:24
    It's a bit easier to cherry pick if it's all one document.
  128. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:24
    [car] Ah, thanks for mentioning that. I noticed that PR #288 seems to have a whole bunch of stuff in one branch, and I kind of wondered if that was going to be "difficult" to merge.
  129. MichielBijl @MichielBijl is firing up GitHub
  130. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:26
    [car] @car is waiting
  131. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:27
    Ah, 288, the beast
  132. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:27
    Yeah, we're never going to merge that.
  133. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:27
    [car] You might want to let the poor fellow know...
  134. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:27
    Not gonna happen
  135. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:27
    There is no way to review that.
  136. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:27
    Yeah, we will at some point.
  137. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:28
    We just had a whole debate about the new landmark section that we needed to figure out.
  138. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:28
    Which is now in, so we can jump on this :)
  139. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:29
    Fact is you can't possible review a PR with 250+ commits that all say “update” or “updates” or “commit”…
  140. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:29
    Plus it has 66(!) changed files.
  141. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:29
    [car] Yeah, I kinda figured that one looked a bit like an anti-pattern...
  142. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:29
    [car] 66(!) holy catfish!
  143. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:30
    Have merged #341 in the meantime.
  144. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:30
    That one is perfect!
  145. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:30
    [car] Great! Thanks! LGTM...
  146. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:31
    [car] ah, ok, got it
  147. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:31
    [car] Looked a bit like LGBT.
  148. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:31
    [car] ;)
  149. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:31
    Looks good to me.
  150. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:31
    I should just add a replacement thingy for that.
  151. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:32
    [car] Yeah - I googled it.
  152. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:32
    [car] But it caught me by surprise when I first saw it. :)
  153. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 18:32
    Updated it.
  154. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 19 18:33
    [car] I'll know what it means in future. :) Thanks!
  155. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Apr 19 19:51
    I added some advice to the HTML spec about Lang attribute https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/722363763190558720
  156. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Apr 19 19:52
    Feedback welcome on issue
  157. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 21:21
    Feedback sent stevefaulkner!
  158. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 21:39
    Woohoo, we have lots of sign ups: http://dir.rawr.eu/a11y-Meet-up-Amsterdam.html
  159. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 21:39
    We seriously need to start looking for a venue :P
  160. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 19 22:12
    I've reached out today for just that reason :)
  161. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 22:28
    Smart man.
  162. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 22:28
    I'm writing the CSS Day place atm.
  163. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 22:47
    woo hoo - got my header checker working :)
  164. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 22:48
    flags as a "warning" any text which is on the page which is > 1SD bigger than the other text on the page and is not marked up as a header.
  165. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 19 22:51
    going to also add the reverse and flag as a warning for any text smaller than the mean font size which IS marked up as a header.... obviously I'll have to exclude off-screen or small bounding box screen-reader targetted text or we'll get a bunch of false positives here
  166. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 22:59
    @jkva, sad face, CSS day building doesn't have wheelchair ramp…
  167. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 19 22:59
    Not sure we have wheelchair sporting attendees, but still.