Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 2nd of September 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 01:18
    [caesar] Sorry to keep banging on about this (ARIA menu roles), but this W3C code doesn't seem to be supported on all SR, notably VoiceOver:
  2. [caesar] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_menus#Success_Criteria_4.1.2_Name.2C_Role.2C_Value
  3. [caesar] Is there a "best practice" way of implementing a dropdown menu (either horizontal or vertical) that works for all SR users?
  4. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 02 02:03
    @caesar don't look at anything on that wiki. If it never made it to a published technique it has never been reviewed.
  5. "This Wiki page is edited by participants of the WCAG Working Group. It does not necessarily represent consensus and it may have incorrect information or information that is not supported by other Working Group participants, WAI, or W3C. It may also have some very useful information."
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 02:26
    [caesar] Is there any other authoritarive source for best practice use of aria menu roles?
  7. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Sep 02 07:16
    Good {% timeofDayWhereYouAre %} all!
  8. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 11:16
    mm. Our charter has one out for AC review with the HTML AAM still showing as a joint deliverable.
  9. Doh. Wrong channel.
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 11:42
    [michiel] Congratulations to jkva, who is now even older than he already was.
  11. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 02 12:03
    Aren't we all, though?
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 12:21
    [karlgroves] Ah yes, inclusion FTW! (except for blind people) https://twitter.com/LadiesthatUXMCR/status/771683735314006016
  13. [michiel] Ladies that SUX?
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 12:30
    [michiel] I've been trying to get their Amsterdam chapter to attend r=d
  15. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Sep 02 13:52
    Some post holiday scratchings: Notes on ZoomText Web Finder https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2016/09/notes-on-zoomtext-web-finder/
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 14:42
    [dean] I’m on their Slack channel @michiel - happy to post there for you
  17. [michiel] Oh please do! I sent them a tweet a while ago but didn't hear back (yet).
  18. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 16:16
    Steve
  19. your link has a weirdness
  20. it has "input type="edit|search|url|tel|email""
  21. input type="edit" should prolly become input type="text" @stevefaulkner
  22. Karl Groves: I've heard enough stories of women with disabilities being excluded from "pro-vagina-whatevers" (women-in-politics groups, women-in-tech groups, whatever) as well as POCs
  23. So it's apparently a common thing :(
  24. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 16:22
    Those groups are often a real turnoff
  25. however, regarding the twitter convo, I give them props for not turning into defensive assholes. They kept it pro.
  26. ++
  27. Fiona Holder
    @FionaHolder
    Sep 02 16:23
    I have mixed feelings on women in tech groups, on face value they seem useful for discussing issues common to women, but they often go a bit far IMO
  28. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 16:23
    Same here.
  29. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 16:24
    @michiel Do they have a large Amsterdam chapter?
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 16:31

    [karlgroves] > They kept it pro.

    Agreed. And they’re making improvements to the form.

  31. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 16:32
    http://www.customerservant.com/that-dog-dont-hunt/ Amanda said something about it.
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:01
    [michiel] Men should be able to not be dicks so we don't need pro vagina clubs…
  33. [michiel] Y'know, just have a group where you can discuss whatever it is you want to discuss.
  34. [michiel] There shouldn't need to be a Ladies that a11ySlackers or something…
  35. [marcysutton] That would be ideal, yes. Often it's a numbers game though. There are so many men in the field sometimes people-who-aren't-men need more encouragement of safe spaces.
  36. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Sep 02 17:04
    @StommePoes you are right. Thanks 👍
  37. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:04
    woot! I GET COOKIE???
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:04
    [marcysutton] UX is generally not as dude-heavy as dev though..
  39. [marcysutton] if one was to generalize :)
  40. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:04
    it's prolly because UX is very designey in parts (UX is a hard term because it can be so broad, from research scientist to mockups-maker to info architect to...)
  41. but there's some design in there somewhere
  42. design is a chick and dude thing
  43. I'm always surprised when I see a company's devs that the frontenders aren't mostly girls and the backenders guys
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:06
    [michiel] That sentence makes no sense.
  45. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:06
    which one
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:06
    [michiel] That one.
  47. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:06
    I made 4
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:06
    [michiel] …a company's devs…
  49. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:06
    Safe space kinda implies the status quo isn't safe
  50. I should start a Perl for Women dev group
  51. or you could, StommePoes
  52. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:07
    yeah michiel sometimes they take pics of everyone for whaytever reason
  53. and you see it on their "we're hiring" pages
  54. usually with the required image of a foosball table
  55. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:07
    [michiel] Or ping pong table
  56. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:07
    I don't deal with women's groups. Let someone else do that.
  57. I have a vagina but that doesn't add me to the club.
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:07
    [michiel] You're saying you're surprised when all the front-end devs aren't girls, and the back-end devs aren't boys?
  59. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:07
    It's something more...
  60. Michiel: I used to be. I always felt dicking around with markup and styling was kinda designey and girly, while the guys were writing PHP and dealing with teh DB
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:08
    [michiel] hopes he doesn't get added to the club of dicks…
  62. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:08
    StommePoes +1
  63. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:08
    however, at Fronteers guys were also the majority
  64. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:08
    I am not keen on positive discrimination any more than the otherkind.
  65. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:09
    So now I know in fact there are lots of guys who do frontend, but it seemed counter to what I would expect otherwise. Dunno why
  66. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:09
    Isn't kinda against the "why are you here, are you someone's girlfriend" at conferences thing?
  67. Or the "Are you in HR"
  68. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:10
    Well I don't consider reminding people about biases the same as pos discimination
  69. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:10
    "Surely you cannot code, your uterus prevents this"
  70. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:10
    In fact we KNOW devs and lots of other people simply think certain things by default and need reminders
  71. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:10
    Reminds me of when I would buy a new cake shape and would have to keep reminding the salesperson that it was for me :P
  72. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:11
    No, reminders are different, but it's a fine line with initiatives like "Women in X".
  73. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:11
    But that's not really the same thing as a women's club for X. Those are kinda different. Not necessarily bad and can be great for beginners who are uneasy based on vagina/skin colour/disability/whatever.
  74. Yeah, I'm not a "woman in anything"
  75. I just am.
  76. But, I have never gone through any of the horror stories
  77. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:11
    You just abide @StommePoes
  78. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:11
    [michiel] You're just a stupid cat in accessibility?
  79. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:12
    @StommePoes well some drunk guy slobbered on your face at a Perl Conference remember
  80. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:12
    I read a lot and wonder "where do these women live??" but it's from all over. So maybe I'm just ugly enough that I don't have to worry about these things?
  81. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:12
    (Not me ;))
  82. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:12
    yaeh but he was really, really drunk 18-year-old
  83. and Khazak or something
  84. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:12
    But that's the probem though
  85. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:12
    english not best
  86. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:12
    YOu can't excuse that
  87. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:12
    No, but it's not a regular thing
  88. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:12
    It's the same type of problem
  89. That's just excusing it
  90. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:12
    the girls complaining about this stuff get it All The Time
  91. it's the thousand cuts for them and they write about it
  92. I can count on like 2 fingers the number of times anything has happened to me
  93. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:13
    The problem is that there are idiots... of both sexes, all races, every religion, and whatever other characteristic you choose to call out.
  94. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:13
    There are, but they seem to glom onto a small subset of people
  95. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:13
    Butlike StommePoes, I don't recall ever really having to deal with much "ism".
  96. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:13
    [michiel] StommePoes: Hmm, so what you're saying is I'm not pretty enough to be harassed at conferences?
  97. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:14
    michiel stop mansplaining
  98. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:14
    And for some reason I'm lucky enough that I'm not one of them (I don't notice any problems with being female at work or anywhere,), so I can't relate really to the people who do have discrimination. Instead, all I can do is listen to them
  99. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:14
    [michiel] How is that mansplaining?
  100. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:14
    Michiel: your beard should be attracting it
  101. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:14
    [michiel] Yeah, maybe
  102. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:14
    You should be getting people trying to touch it and stuff
  103. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:15
    [michiel] Maybe women aren't into dinosaurs so much anymore?
  104. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:15
    You can't just go touch someone's beard becky
  105. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:15
    When I watched Zootopia, I noticed they put one of those little things in: the sheep, with her sheep wool, the fox Nick kept touching it... the way I've seen and heard of white people touching black people's hair going "it's so weird..."
  106. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:15
    I could see that movie again
  107. It was really good
  108. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:16
    [michiel] It was
  109. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:16
    Like, that's something that happens, it's real, but it doesn't happen to me. So I don't experience it, lucky me, but I'll listen to others saying it happened to them and it needs to stop. Etc.
  110. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:16
    Yeah
  111. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:16
    [michiel] Yeah, I remember Natalie telling that story.
  112. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:16
    I guess that's teh fuzzy line between SomeGroup-X groups and safe spaces and all that.
  113. Did people touch Natalie's hair???
  114. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:17
    I am afraid I also worry about the adverse impact some of the (well intentioned) campaigning may have.
  115. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:17
    [michiel] Yeah, she told about it at CSUN
  116. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:17
    Her hair is also most awesome-- it's silver!!! Which makes it UNICORN HAIR!!
  117. Leonie: like guys being afraid to approach women/minorities at dev confs or worried if there's a woman on the team that they can't be loose and relax
  118. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:18
    Yes, exactly so .
  119. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:18
    but I guess people will, over time, figure out where things stand and deal with it.
  120. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:18
    @LJWatson before I forget: Is Dan having conference withdrawal yet? :)
  121. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:18
    I hope so yes.
  122. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:18
    right now it is still new to some people. Esp hard when groups of (devs, whatevers) grow up, go to school and everything all in thjeir same groups.
  123. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:19
    Yeah, that'd be nice
  124. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:19
    @jkva I think he's still recovering from the shock... ;)
  125. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:19
    Startups that start looking for employees... look for their old friends or people their friends know
  126. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:19
    In Romania there is such a stark differnce there
  127. All these young girls in IT
  128. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:20
    Was he all like "it was so wow! There were all these bearded Perl dudes! There was all this Perl everywhere! And cute Romanian vampires running around!!"
  129. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:20
    Education is a huge part of the solution IMO.
  130. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:20
    Yeah looking at the pics from last YAPC you notice a lot more young women, traditionally Perl is both male and old. But Eastern Europe is just more programmy
  131. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:21
    @StommePoes he was :)
  132. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:21
    :)
  133. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:21
    So... is he thinking about London Perl Workshop?
  134. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:21
    @StommePoes I've bugged him about it
  135. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:22
    I saw
  136. There ought to be a local perl mongeurs group for him somewhere closeby too...
  137. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:23
    Yup he's planning on going to the London thing I think.
  138. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:23
    Re education: yeah. I am using for some of my slides the twitter convos where one party doesn't believe the other is blind because "well you're using twitter, that proves you're lying". Educating people has to mean at some level hiring more kinds of people. Having a colleague that is X gives at least 1 human example of X. Multiples make it better.
  139. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:23
    [michiel] People still write perl?
  140. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:23
    YES.
  141. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:23
    NO.
  142. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:23
    Perl
  143. Zaki Mughal [sivoais]
    @zmughal
    Sep 02 17:25
    Yes!
  144. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:26
    How many Perl people can we get to flood this channel? :P
  145. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:26
    [michiel] escapes to CSS land
  146. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:26
    Don't look me... I just married a Perl dood.
  147. jkva @jkva watches Michiel float:left away
  148. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:27
    Leonie: next thing you know, you'll be attending YAPCs
  149. Like me.
  150. Larry Wall's wife Gloria always comes. In case she's bored, she brings bordering? stitching? whatever it's called, sewing little patterns into cloth.
  151. But she enjoys a lot of the talks too and she's def not technical.
  152. As technical people, we enjoy talks more
  153. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:28
    I think she crochets?
  154. Hmm no
  155. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:29
    [michiel] Yikes, I still need to get beer for the TPG hangout, brb!
  156. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:30
    That sounds nice
  157. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:30
    [michiel] If nobody shows up you may join :P
  158. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:30
    @Michiel thought that wasn't till later?
  159. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:30
    I have a Punk IPA if it's mandatory
  160. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:31
    [michiel] It is, but I need to get beers for it.
  161. [michiel] Should have a selection to choose from and discuss :P
  162. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:31
    I have 20 liters today fresh-brewed in the climate chamber, does that count? ;)
  163. At least the house smells like malt and hops
  164. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:31
    [michiel] It's one type?
  165. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:32
    Harvest ale, yes
  166. Simple blonde, with a local yeast that's a bit rough around the edges
  167. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:32
    [michiel] Then no
  168. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:32
    aw
  169. Does Frisian whisky count?
  170. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:33
    [michiel] Does it have alcohol?
  171. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:34
    40%
  172. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:41
    [marcysutton] Part of me misses office and meetup banter now that I've moved to the forest, good thing I have conferences for social interaction =D
  173. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:42
    @marcysutton The forest and woodland creatures don't understand you?
  174. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:43
    [marcysutton] The baby deer I escorted out of the yard the other day were nice, but very uninterested in talking about pull requests
  175. [marcysutton] My dog can only handle so many comments about web APIs
  176. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:43
    http://stommepoes.nl/furnimg/snow-white.jpg
  177. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:43
    You'd think they'd be all about trees and branches
  178. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 02 17:43
    LOL
  179. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:43
    [karlgroves] Dammit, Mallory beat me to it
  180. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:43
    [snow white... surrounded by the wee woodland creatures]
  181. I think... I think she's even... hugging a deer.
  182. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:44
    Explaining the benefits of agile, no doubt
  183. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:44
    [karlgroves] Speaking of baby deer, I was cranking around the corner on my mountain bike the other day and almost ran one over. I’ve literally never seen one this small. Was like a labrador. CUUUUUTE
  184. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:45
    In the cartoon Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, there's a scene where Tamara, who is really a tomato turned into a girl by Dr Gangrene, is crying to all these woodland creatures who gather around her in sympathy... until she finishes with "... because I'm a tomato!" and they all scatter in absolute terror
  185. Tara, sorry
  186. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:45
    I would never ride my bike in the US, you guys don't lock up your bears
  187. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:45
    [marcysutton] Little kid Marcy dressed up as Snow White for Halloween
  188. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:45
    Cute woodland creatures my ass, those things maul
  189. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:46
    [marcysutton] @karlgroves that sounds amazing, I would fall over from cuteness overload
  190. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:46
    I would get hungry
  191. mmm... deer...
  192. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:47
    [karlgroves] Super cute. And fast! Still tiny but mega fast, which was good because I was hauling ass and almost mangled both of us
  193. [marcysutton] The deer around here just stand around not caring about anything at all.
  194. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:50
    In Michigan they eat all your garden, flowers, trees, and bird food.
  195. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:51
    [michiel] Finally found a proper version of jkva
  196. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:51
    Reminds me of this photo of two squirrels hanging from a bird feeder, one saying "This squirrel feeder is horribly designed"
  197. @michiel I'm sorry?
  198. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:51
    [karlgroves] I honestly have no idea where the hell it could’ve even come from because where it was is not exactly what I’d call a habitat
  199. [michiel] Alt=a beer called Proper Job https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/f1bUVkdr/IMG_1645.JPG
  200. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:51
    "powerfully hopped" lawlz
  201. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:51
    WANT
  202. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:51
    Cornish IPA?
  203. Job, ask Jason
  204. he's cornish right?
  205. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:52
    No, that's Aaron. Jason is in Chicago
  206. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:52
    He can bring you some.
  207. Oh, which one is going to the Dancer conf?
  208. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:52
    Jason
  209. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:52
    damn.
  210. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:52
    But I'll see Aaron at London Perl WOrkshop, we were gonna quaff cider
  211. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:53
    [karlgroves] Map
  212. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:53
    map of... ?
  213. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:53
    Baltimore airport from the looks of it
  214. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:54
    [karlgroves] Yes. Did the “comment” come through for non-slackers?
  215. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:54
    @zakim-robot
    [karlgroves] Map
    @StommePoes
    map of... ?
  216. Just map.
  217. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:54
    It just says "Map"
  218. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:54
    [karlgroves] AH
  219. [karlgroves] “See the tiny skinny area in the upper-right where it says “Andover Road” and the vertical text where it says “Cabin Branch”? That’s about 25 yards wide and maybe a half-mile long. That’s where the deer was."
  220. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 02 17:55
    I see a lot of trees all over
  221. perfect for some deer
  222. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:55
    Well I can't see the deer at that resolution dude
  223. Sheesh
  224. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:55
    [michiel] Jkva: I'll bring one the 8th
  225. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:55
    sweet
  226. @michiel++
  227. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:57
    [michiel] Alt=Selection of beers: Goose IPA, Hells Lager, Innis & Gunn, and Beck's. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/CquKBhES/1472839030.JPG
  228. [michiel] I'm ready 8)
  229. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 17:58
    Goose IPA! ++
  230. So is this a thing you guys have?
  231. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 17:59
    [michiel] Apparently :P

  232. [car] I have the same question as @caesar:

    Is there any other authoritarive source for best practice use of aria menu roles?
    @jnurthen @yatil: Do you know if the WAI tutorials have more reliable/up-to-date example code than the wiki?
    This menubar tutorial page says "[Approved Draft]": https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/menus/application/
    It has similar code to the wiki, but for some reason role="menubar" is on a parent div instead of on the top level ul. I haven't tested, but maybe that odd bit helps it work with more screen readers?

  233. [michiel] Ashley, Jonny, and I came up with it after ID24.
  234. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 18:01
    👏
  235. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 18:01
    [michiel] car: menu bar on ul can be problematic.
  236. [karlgroves] @car @caesar https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/#menu
  237. [michiel] I'll make an official version for the APG in the next two weeks.
  238. [michiel] Oh no wait, I'm supposed to do toolbar, sorry.
  239. [michiel] Don't think there is an official example for menubar at the moment.
  240. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 02 18:15
    doesn't have new examples yet - but please use this for aria practices. We have moved repo and those old TRs are now out of date. We are trying to get them either redirected or noted as obsolete.
  241. latest editors draft is here - http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  242. (it is the latest published version - but the doc is changing quickly!)
  243. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 18:29
    [car] @karlgroves Unfortunately, "working example" and "spec" don't always coincide... ;) Was mostly wondering what the best markup to use is, since there seems to be some discrepancy.
    @michiel Why is menubar on ul problematic? Is it "historic reasons"? Should we be reporting AT bugs to have that fixed? I'll send you your choice of beer if you write up and test menubar after toolbar. ;)
    @jnurthen Ok, will go to github for APG from now on... thanks.
  244. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 18:38
    [car] I keep waiting for cross browser support for <menu type="toolbar">... :(
  245. [michiel] car: I'd like some Karl Straus Red Trolley please ;)
  246. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Sep 02 18:43
    hey @StommePoes, thanks for pointing out this http://www.serotek.com/blog_seroteks_position_on_microsoft_edge interesting read
  247. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 18:47
    [car] @michiel If you deliver, I'll deliver! :)
  248. [car] Of course, where are you these days? You drove to England?
  249. [car] With all your stuff? In a car? (Slack keeps telling me about it because I'm "car" ;)
  250. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 19:03
    [michiel] Haha, yeah, I drove here in an Ox-Ford.
  251. [michiel] Looking to move again though, but not sure where.
  252. [michiel] UK is not very pet friendly.
  253. [michiel] Saw a nice house in Brighton, but no pets allowed.
  254. [michiel] Maybe I should just buy something and be done with landlords.
  255. [michiel] Although, the UK is also not the cheapest country in the world.
  256. [michiel] With houses starting around £400-500k
  257. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 19:48
    [car] How about Canada? It's quite lovely in the summer. ;)
  258. [michiel] I wouldn't mind the cold actually.
  259. [michiel] I already tried on a Canadian tux this week.
  260. [michiel] Was told off for it not having enough buttons…
  261. [car] Canadian tux - didn't know there was such a thing.
  262. [car] Actually, we just had the Best. Summer. Ever. Sunny and hot almost every day. Canadians love global warming! :)
  263. [michiel] Double denim…
  264. [car] the tux?
  265. [michiel] Yeah
  266. [car] denim? wild.
  267. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 19:53
    [michiel] alt=me in a supposed Canadian tux (which lacks the abundance of buttons) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/g1qKSXJr/IMG_1629.JPG
  268. [car] Oh man! You had me there. <chuckle> Nice one!
  269. [michiel] alt=me, sad, looking up at Hangout's “You're the only one here” text https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4ZZPErTj/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-02%20at%2020.56.12.png
  270. [michiel] TPG Hangouts are wild.
  271. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 02 20:22
    :D
  272. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 02 21:21
    [michiel] It's ramping up though:
  273. [michiel] alt=Google Hangout with Adrian, Ashley, Léonie, and me. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/VLwJupp8/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-02%20at%2021.38.45.png