Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 7th of September 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 01:11
    [caesar] Just noticed this: if you type "paralympians" into Slack, the spell check suggests "Olympians". Discrimination!
  2. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 01:43
    Don't use slack so can't comment but is it their spell check or the browser?
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 02:12
    [caesar] Not sure, but I'm using their Windows desktop app, not in-browser.
  4. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 02:14
    Ah ok. Never used that. My firewall blocks slack so have no experience.
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 03:59
    [caesar] How do people with disabilities deal with credit card security codes? More to the point, do websites need to provide an accessible equivalent for information explaining where to find the CVV code on their card given it's a purely visual artifact?
  6. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 07 04:09
    It really depends on the person. I'm sure some memorize it while others put it in a plain text file or something and others still might put it in something like LastPass. Or do you mean how do they get the information in the first place? Perhaps they ask a sighted friend they trust.
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 04:12
    [caesar] Moreso, in a web form, would I be in breach of WCAG if I simply hid the info about where to find the CVV using aria-hidden?
  8. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 04:14
    I don't think you should hide that info.
  9. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 07 04:38
    Any information you're presenting visually should also be presented programmatically.
  10. Otherwise how is someone's digital assistant going to know where to find the CVV?
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 04:55
    [caesar] OK
  12. [caesar] sigh
  13. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 07 05:07
    ugh
  14. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 05:49
    Also it is dangerous to think in binary terms. There are many people who use a screen reader who can still see. It may be vitally important to describe to them where on the card to look so they know where to try to magnify to read it.
  15. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 05:50
    [caesar] Good call
  16. [caesar] Thanks
  17. jkva @jkva reads CSUN CFP procedure
  18. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 07 09:26
    Only 40 minutes?!
  19. Darn, I've gotten so used to be able to pick from a list of "30, 60, 90, 120" minutes :)
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 09:39
    [michiel] You got a link there?
  21. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 07 09:40
    @michiel https://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2017/openconf-general/overview.php#overview
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 09:40
    [michiel] thumbsup emoji
  23. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 09:45
    Jnurthen++ I got a lot of that when making a vehicle-insurance site accessible
  24. "but blind people don't drive scooters!"
  25. lawlZ
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 09:49
    [michiel] Yeah, so why should they be allowed to visit our websitez?!
  27. [michiel] ‘cause blind people can't interested in vehicles…
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 10:38
    [david_caldwell] Most banks provide CVV codes in alternative formats too
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 11:32
    [car] @caesar in case it's ever useful to know... in today's trivia, Slack's Windows desktop app uses the identical HTML/JS/CSS code as their in-browser app - they just run it in Electron (http://electron.atom.io/) to make it work on the desktop. So you're seeing Electron's spell-checker... which is basically from Chromium. I expect you'll see the exact same spell-check results in Chrome.
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 12:11
    [jv] https://twitter.com/nasscom/status/773465633988026368
  31. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 07 12:26
    Whenever you tweet, ask yourself. "How could @michiel reply to this?"
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 12:28
    [michiel] =D
  33. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 07 12:28
    ;)
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 15:16
    [hidanielle] Hi All, I've run into a bug with NVDA in FF, and I've found 2 open tickets on Github that describe my exact issue, with no comments or action taken. Wondering if anyone here has experienced this. nvaccess/nvda#5230
  35. [hidanielle] "In Firefox, When NVDA is running in browse mode, NVDA will skip over the link when tabbing through the page. NVDA does correctly focus the link when shift tabbing. The issue only occurs in with the Firefox/NVDA combination, and only in browse mode."
  36. [hidanielle] I've tried removing all CSS as well and it still occurs, so styling is not the problem. I've tried with SayAll disabled and Enabled and both options produce weird results
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 15:39
    [hidanielle] So it appears that it's an NVDA bug OR feature, I guess depending on how you look at it... it's happening on any site with skip links. Odd
  38. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 16:01
    It seems to be a bug, seeing's how it works if there's a second skip link
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 17:00
    [marcysutton] JAWS has no bug tracker, right?
  40. [cordelia] Not a public one, at least.
  41. [cordelia] http://whoseline.a11yideas.com/bugs.html
  42. [marcysutton] Thanks! I am going to report an Angular 1x bug to them, I would be really surprised if they fixed it though...
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 17:13
    [hidanielle] regarding the NVDA issue, with SayAll disabled, the first thing that is read is the first skip link, and you can interact with it, but it doesn't receive visual focus. So when you press tab for the first time, you're actually leaving that first link and going to the second one, which then receives the visual focus
  44. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 17:33
    I'm not sure this is the right place, but I'm trying to get a jquery pluging for autoscroll to implement some wai-aria attributes
  45. but resources for wai-aria are few and far between
  46. How should I go about finding info on implementing the infinite scroll pattern?
  47. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 18:05
    [marcysutton] Update: there is a public beta feedback form for JAWS 18. This Angular bug was reproducible in that version so I reported it there too. https://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/JawsPublicBeta
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 18:17
    [cordelia] Ironically several of that feedback form’s input fields are unlabelled. :\
  49. [cordelia] But it’s great they have a public form!
  50. [marcysutton] wut.
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 18:22
    [cordelia] A few of the labels are missing for attributes, but most of them are okay
  52. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:47
    Quick stupid question
  53. https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/#slider on this page
  54. All of these are decimal numbers. <-- for the values, are these floats or ints?
  55. what do they mean by "decimal numbers"?
  56. ABM-Dan are you thinking of live regions to announce the newly-added content?
  57. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:49
    Yeah.
  58. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:51
    I would almost only have some separate thing that announces in the voice of The Dude "new shit has come to light" and let users arrow down to find the new content themselves. But only because wrapping a live region around the container where the new stuff gets added would get verbose-until-useless, depending on what you're adding.
    However, I have not tested that myself. Maybe it ends up being okay.
  59. Note that currently in Firefox on Linux with Orca, moving the screen reader down the page (by moving the caret when you set caret navigation) doesn't scroll the page
  60. so if you're listening for an onscroll event, in that particular case you won't get one.
  61. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:51
    The issue is that ideally the content appears after prompting it (usually by scrolling past the last item)
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:51
    It's on Joanie's list somewhere to fix but I don't think a high priority.
  63. What about the more-button pattern?
  64. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:52
    There's also a link that can be clicked.
  65. Basically scrolling to the link auto-clicks it.
  66. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:52
    https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2016/03/pagination-infinite-scrolling-load-more-buttons/
  67. ok, having a button would address the Orca/FF issue.
  68. I mean, for Orca and VO simply having more content means if the user keeps down-arrowing, they'll reach the new content. The virtual-buffer readers, I'm not sure.
  69. Dragon users can trigger scrolls.
  70. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:53
    I'm pre-implementation, I'm just trying to advertise the areas correctly
  71. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:55
    One problem I'm thinking of is which role your container would have to have.
  72. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:55
    yup
  73. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:57
    While pretty much everyone working in a11y knows infinite scroll is so terrible that we won't use it anyway, you would still think someone would have come up with a set of roles + aria-lives that would work with such a thing.
  74. Otherwise you may need to build something kinda special
  75. as a last resoryt
  76. where you have an offscreen live container with just text
  77. maybe listing number of visible items or something
  78. and as scrfolling or clicking the button loads more, your script at the same time as calling more items also changes the number in that box
  79. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:58
    Wait.
  80. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:58
    that counts as a change and the box could be a status
  81. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:58
    I'm lost.
  82. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:58
    You have <div>items that grows with the dreaded forever-scroll</div>
  83. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:59
    I expected this to be just a matter of throwing a few attributes on the container, a status for when items are loading, and some sort of event when the items are loaded in.
  84. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:59
    somewhere before that, and visibly offscreen (so available to screen readers in general) a box like <p role=status aria-live=polite>x number items on the page</p>
  85. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:59
    Maybe some extra attributes on the "view more" button
  86. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:59
    Well but do you want every new item all of its text read out as soon as they load?
  87. That's what i worry about if you simply throw a live region on the container
  88. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 18:59
    Actually yes, probably.
  89. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 18:59
    oh, these are small things?
  90. I was thinking like ecommerce
  91. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:00
    Not necessarily
  92. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:00
    where I typically see this
  93. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:00
    but if a user requested new items, when/how should we read them to the user?
  94. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:00
    Well normally users read stuff themselves
  95. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:00
    Isn't this simply fulfilling a promise?
  96. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:00
    there is SayAll for just listening passively to a page but more people navigate
  97. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:00
    I see.
  98. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:00
    So I thought, letting themn know that the new items have appeared
  99. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:01
    So we'd have to be polite.
  100. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:01
    lets them choose to now navigate down to those new items
  101. Well, yeah. And let people explore things, spell through things, whatever
  102. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:01
    I see.
  103. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:01
    Since focus isn't moved to the text in a live region, you just hear what's inside
  104. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:01
    Yeah this is a bit intense.
  105. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:01
    normally, if your reader focus is somrewhere you can go and spell things out to check word meaning if you want, or re-listen, or whatever
  106. So letting people simply know there is new stuff (ideally right after where they currently are) lets them go on reading as they normally doi
  107. if this is a list and you added new list items, they can hit their next list-item key for example
  108. to go further
  109. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:02
    Sadly it seems to be so that a11y people don't like infinite scrolling and infinite scrolling people don't care about a11y, meaning that there's no guide, no bridging of this gap.
  110. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:02
    if it's adding new paragraphs they can move by paragraph, etc.
  111. That article I mentioned above is nice
  112. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:03
    But it says nothing about the implementation.
  113. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:03
    it didn't look specifically at a11y but it did look at usability, albeit for a very small type of site
  114. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:03
    I mean, aria-wise.
  115. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:03
    I'm not sure the gap is an a11y one. I don't know many people who like infinite scroll al that much.
  116. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:03
    I hate it, myself
  117. It works well with totally passive things
  118. but once I need to interact, it gets hard. A "more" button helps that
  119. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:03
    @LJWatson sadly I'm not the ux designer in my company.
  120. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:03
    gives me more control
  121. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:04
    It's horrible for deep linking, horrible for searching, hard work on scrolling whatever your input device.
  122. Dan I hear you :)
  123. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:04
    I'm just trying to:
  124. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:04
    So Leonie, assuming it's going to be built anyway, do you think we should not live-region the box but live-region some announcement instead?
  125. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:04
    Sorry, realise I missed the first part of this... but why a live region?
  126. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:04
    assuming a user's focus and place remain on what was the last item ?
  127. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:04
    • get rid of the custom classes/data-attributes/etc that would be redundant with aria attributes
  128. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:04
    I do that too, Dan
  129. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:04
    • put aria attributes there so it's better digestible
  130. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:05
    that's the hard one, aria may not improve anything
  131. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:05
    • hook js to aria selectors
  132. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:05
    What ARIA are you thinking of using?
  133. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:05
    I do that too, for things like disclosure widgets, but can't think how that could work for infinite scroll
  134. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:05
    Live region because I thought that was the better descriptor for an infinite scroller.
  135. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:06
    Unless today's buffers will also keep up with the current page adding content
  136. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:06
    You mean something that indicates when a chunk of new content has scrolled into view?
  137. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:06
    Not only scrolled into view, but added to the DOM usually
  138. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:06
    Yup
  139. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:06
    I dunno if Dan is using container placeholders?
  140. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:06
    no, it's AHAH more than AJAX.
  141. I'm injecting html.
  142. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:07
    That sounds to me like adding content to a container who already existed when the page loaded, so do we need a live region to allow those with virtual buffers to navigate to the new stuff or no?
  143. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:07
    I'd make the container for the infinite scroll a <section aria-label="Infinite scroll"> or something like it.
  144. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:07
    if not, then I can't think of any aria we'd add anywhere.
  145. That's a good idea, warn the user beforehand
  146. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:08
    and ideally I'd like to push some PR/fork https://github.com/pklauzinski/jscroll
  147. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:08
    I don't know that the live region is needed if you know you're in an infinite scroll.
  148. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:08
    aria-label="ABANDON ALL HOPE, YE WHO ENTER HERE"
  149. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:08
    It wouldn't hurt though.
  150. Heh.
  151. The big thing is to give keyboard users (not at users) a way to get past the scroll without having to wade through everytihng in it.
  152. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:09
    The other worry I had was, if a live region were added, and the things added were anything slightly complex (like products), if that would cause a crap-ton of annoying reading and need to hit a constant shutup button every time you scroll a bit
  153. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:09
    Oh.
  154. I wasn't thinking about making the infinite scroll area a live region - that'd e horrible. I was just thinking of an update message like "New content has scrolled into view" or something.
  155. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:10
    That's my idea
  156. a box somewhere that simply tells users "6 new items"
  157. or something
  158. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:10
    Yup. Live regions are only good for short messages.
  159. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:10
    Maybe offscreen
  160. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:10
    Yup.
  161. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:11
    That's what I meant with "somewhere before that, and visibly offscreen (so available to screen readers in general) a box like <p role=status aria-live=polite>x number items on the page</p>"
  162. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:11
    The implementation in this plugin is to have a container with some of the elements, with a next button, you click the next button (let's assume it doesn't auto-load on scroll), the content is requested through ahah, and injected in the page, usually the new content also includes the new next button.
  163. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:11
    but that whatever event listener or whatever the plugin is using to add the items to the page is the one to update that box.
  164. And focus... remains on the first next button?
  165. if that button vanishes, focus wil need to be managed to go to the next nearest focusable
  166. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:12
    At the moment? Probably?
  167. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:12
    for non-AT keyboard users at least
  168. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:12
    Logically it'd have to go on the first element of the newly loaded content.
  169. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:12
    Well, in infinite scroll + button, when the buttons vanish, my focus usually dies in a fire
  170. yeah
  171. if those are focusables
  172. or have them.
  173. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:13
    I have no idea how focus works outside of inputs and clickable elements.
  174. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:13
    So I would wait until the ahah was complete and the items have loaded successfully to update a box somewhere stating there's new stuff
  175. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:13
    tbh I thought screen readers were mostly just playing the whole page content (with the ability to skip)
  176. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:13
    I don't mean SR's focus
  177. but if someone focusses on a control and they click it, then focus has to not get lose
  178. SR focus you don't have to manage
  179. but usually if you have to manually move focus to something using focus() it'll bring the SR along as well
  180. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:14
    I know that the next button gets hidden, not sure if that destroys the focus.
  181. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:14
    yeah if it's display none or the such
  182. if it's pulled offscreen or clipped then it could have focus but you can't/don't want focus on invisibles
  183. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:14
    It is display: none
  184. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:15
    yeah focus should be lost if the browser is doing what it should
  185. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:15
    This is such a headache, are there js plugins that are aria-compliant at all?
  186. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:16
    I must admit I still don't really see much need for ARIA except possibly a label on the scroll container, and maybe a small live region with a message that updates when new content becomes available.
  187. There isn't any other ARIA that would be useful here AFAIK.
  188. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:16
    @LJWatson I thought you were supposed to inform when you had an element with content that is updated dynamically.
  189. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:16
    I can't think of any either.
  190. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:17
    say, a chatroom.
  191. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:17
    Well the aria-label on a section element would do that at the beginning
  192. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:17
    Dan no, not really.
  193. ABM-Dan @ABM-Dan inspects this page's code.
  194. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:17
    They threw chats into role=log in the specs
  195. tho I dunno if it will remain there
  196. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:18
    <div id="content-frame" class="trpChatContainer primary-scroll chat-container scroller" role="log" aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="false" aria-relevant="additions text">
  197. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:18
    But I can't see role=log on any of the things I tend to see infinite scroll on, like products
  198. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:18
    So use <section aria-label="Infinite scroll">...</section> as the container for the infinite scroll area. That'll tell screen readers when the scroll content starts, and in some cases ends.
  199. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:18
    aria-relevant seems ... uh, relevant.
  200. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:18
    it's got kinda shit support tho
  201. I love the idea of relevant
  202. I thought maybe only JAWS had any support... ?
  203. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:18
    That's beyond the scope, right?
  204. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:19
    Optionally have a live region that posts a message to say "New content has scrolled" or something like that.
  205. Beyond that, managing keyoard focus is the killer.
  206. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:19
    I mean, I'm not here to cater to the quirks of UAs
  207. I'm here to try and make things as efficiently advertised.
  208. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:19
    Agreed, you generally shouldnt
  209. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:19
    Eventually UAs will get their bugs together.
  210. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:19
    if I were to make a live region and I cared only about additions I'd go ahead and add the relevant, but I'd do it knowing it wouldn't do much in practice currrently
  211. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:20
    If you mean about whether an AT announces the beginning and the end of the region, jyes, that's UA implementaiton and not technically a bug either.
  212. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:20
    Usually if the userland starts complying to a spec, UAs tend to work on implementation.
  213. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:20
    Sometimes, yeah
  214. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:21
    I'm envisioning a collection of js widgets that need aria attributes to work.
  215. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:21
    Depends, and sometimes it's still stupid-slow. Like, everyone builds modal dialogs, support for an actual <dialog> is still not where we'd like it, so we still build our divvy aria'd modals ourselves
  216. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:21
    I already do stuff like css rules of the button, [role=button] {/stuff/}
  217. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:21
    I use expanded attributes and other things for my JS quite a bit
  218. and controls for setting variabnles
  219. variables
  220. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:22
    Yeah, like, for sliders for instance, they are awesome.
  221. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:22
    like var target=document.getElementById(someOtherElement.getAttribute('aria-controls')) etc
  222. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:23
    Naming is such an insanely hard task, being able to use the ones defined in wai-aria would be a welcome relief.
  223. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:23
    but for infinite scroll I just don't see much aria-ness that can do much here. It's more just a JS thing and so if you're using a lot of data-foo attrs etc, you'll prolly have to keep them.
  224. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:23
    But there's so little practical documentation out there.
  225. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:23
    and some of the docs are confusing
  226. what do you think: are "decimal numbers" floats, or ints?
  227. I'm guessing they mean floats
  228. but I'm not totally sure
  229. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 07 19:24
    Floats
  230. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:24
    decimal are numbers are usually after the dot.
  231. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:24
    Oh ok. (we use commas here anyway)
  232. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:24
    I'm an italian living in the us, I feel you.
  233. "A decimal number, or just decimal, refers to any number written in decimal notation, although it is more commonly used to refer to numbers that have a fractional part separated from the integer part with a decimal separator (e.g. 11.25)."
  234. talk about ambiguous.
  235. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:27
    floats works better for me but maybe the specs don't want to be too developer-oriented
  236. I won't ask if it's long or not :P
  237. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:27
    But yeah, decimal implies decimal point, integer is used both in plain english and in developer english.
  238. usually when numbers are involved, it's floats unless they say integer.
  239. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 07 19:35
    Hm, examples of sliders I've seen have divs doing the labelling. Since I have to use aria-labelledby anyway, I wonder if I can also just use a <label> tag with that.
  240. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:35
    yeah but for properties like maximum, minimum, current value, etc.
  241. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 19:43
    @ABM-Dan for your scroll thing look at the new feed role in ARIA 1.1
  242. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:47
    "A scrollable list of articles where scrolling may cause articles to be added to or removed from either end of the list."
  243. YUP.
  244. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 19:48
    was about to provide a link but i see you found it
  245. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:48
    Yeah, but again, what would make it easy to implement, is providing a realistic example.
  246. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 19:49
    essentially something put in to support things like FB feeds
  247. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 19:49
    Yeah.
  248. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 19:49
    look for one in the APG but we don't have it yet
  249. ... and realistically AT doesn't support it yet - but will do "soon"
  250. but this will be the right way to do it once everything has caught up
  251. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 19:55
    [michiel] We should task Matt to make one, he asked for it :P
  252. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 19:55
    yeah
  253. ABM-Dan @ABM-Dan grabs torch and pitchfork.
  254. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:03
    Which direction for Matt?
  255. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:04
    [michiel] his e-mail is at the top here: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  256. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 20:04
    I'd recommend logging an issue in github
  257. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:05
    [michiel] That would probably work better
  258. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 07 20:05
    https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues
  259. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:11
    Wait, where is this deployed?
  260. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:13
    [michiel] What do you mean deployed?
  261. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:18
    Nvm, found here: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  262. It'd be nice at the end of the document to have a summary of just the examples.
  263. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:22
    [michiel] Well, all patterns should have a working example in the end :)
  264. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:23
    I see. So unless there's a described pattern, there's not gonna be an example.
  265. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:24
    [michiel] That is correct, but we're adding new patterns all the time :)
  266. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:24
    Nice.
  267. This message was deleted
  268. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:24
    [garcialo] Having examples of your patterns all in one place is quite useful.
  269. ABM-Dan
    @ABM-Dan
    Sep 07 20:24
    The ooa's hosted patterns are quite hard on the eyes.
  270. s/patterns/pattern examples
  271. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 20:26
    [michiel] We could have a list of all the examples I guess.
  272. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 21:04
    [marcysutton] Hello to the folks joining us from the Accessibility Summit! :wave:
  273. [laylah] Hello! What a great summit :) Thanks to all of you for presenting!
  274. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 21:20
    [garcialo] @michiel All the cool kids are doing it, http://ianmcburnie.github.io/mindpatterns/
  275. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 07 22:02
    [michiel] I knew that was coming garcialo :P
  276. [garcialo] =D