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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 4th of April 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 00:04
    [caesar] The boss at the company I work for likes to use the line "there are only two industries that call their customers 'users' - the drug trade and IT"
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 03:42
    [car] @aleventhal Sorry I don’t have a treegrid for you, but here’s a tidbit of info to be aware of for future: w3c/aria#79
    Oh, and hi! o/
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 09:14
    [lefthandev] What's folks preferred setup for recording remote usability studies for users with disabilities?
  4. [lefthandev] Screen reader users in particular would be of interest. Trying Skype, been recommended google hangouts, anything else out there?
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 13:19
    [karlgroves] @lefthandev remote usability testing for accessibility is a pretty massive PITA. For instance, screen sharing for users of screen magnification is impossible. It won’t be shown on the observer machine.
  6. [lefthandev] I hear you ;). I'm just working with screenreader users at present.
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 13:25
    [tink] The problem with Hangouts, Skype etc. is that they don't handle dual audio output.
  8. [tink] Which means it's difficult to capture both the screen reader output and the voice of the person using it.
  9. [tink] Camtasia is good software for recording screen reader testing, but it has to be installed on the machine in question, so it's no good for remote testing.
  10. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 04 13:34
    Zoom allows you to share both microphone and pc audio over a web conference. I don't have access to the recording capability though.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 13:46
    [alastc] On the Mac you need specific software/drivers to pipe the computer audio back into another program, not something I’d ask a participant to do. I assume it is similar on windows, but again, not something I’d ask a participant to do. You might be best off asking if they have a phone or other device they can use for a skype/hangout call, and ask them to position it looking at the computer screen. With the computer speaker on, you can hear them & the computer, and (just about) see the screen. As Karl said, PITA, we generally stick with getting people into the office.
  12. [alastc] I haven’t tried zoom, if that pipes the audio through you might be able to record that and the facilitator’s end.
  13. [alastc] oops: "at the facilitators end."
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 14:37
    [sri429] @lefthandev if you have dual speakers then skype works. skype has a setting with which you can set the output to the other speaker and run the screen reader on another
  15. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 15:29
    [hdv] what would be a good place to find screenreader support for ARIA attributes?
  16. [hdv] I found this post but it is last updated in 2012 https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/10/jaws-support-for-aria/
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 15:53
    [lefthandev] @sri429 ah - I'd no idea, will have a look
  18. [lefthandev] Thanks all for you info on PITA for remote. (Rolls up sleeves) I'll persevere and see what I can get going.
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 17:09

    [jpdevries] Does anyone have any opinions on if the spec should add lang attribute to <html> in examples? http://j4p.us/2O3s3M0f3p2B/Screen%20Shot%202017-04-04%20at%207.06.25%20PM.png

    I work for a online coding bootcamp, and I’m trying to get our examples to contain best practices, even if those best practices aren’t what is being conveyed…but it is difficult to push for that when resources like the spec itself does not.

    I can understand both sides. In the words of my late Father, we could say “do as I say, not as I do” and not worry if all our examples are bulletproof. On the other hand, I think it is important to not spread poor practices.

  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 18:15

    [higley] @jpdevries yes, lang should always be included on the <html> tag, and on any other tags that contain text in a different language. It is actually part of WCAG spec (https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#meaning-doc-lang-id).

    Screen readers can use it to help determine what voice and pronunciation to use. I haven’t actually tried this so someone else may need to confirm, but my impression is if someone using a screen reader in another language were to land on an English-language page without lang set, they would get improper pronunciation.

    The other more obvious use of lang is for internationalization: https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-lang-why

  21. [jpdevries] @higley Thanks! Speaking of

    Screen readers can use it to help determine what voice and pronunciation to use.

    https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/issues/286#issuecomment-281950302

  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 18:26
    [higley] @jpdevries thanks for that, I’ll definitely use it as an example in the future! :)
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 18:53
    [garcialo] It’s also pretty easy to just set the lang on a page to something other than the native language in the DOM :p
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 19:27
    [jpdevries] The importance of <html lang> makes me think about something I saw in a Google style guide somewhere. It seemed like really bad advise. It recommended that to save on bytes, you don’t include <html> or even <head>. Just go straight to the body :\
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 19:37
    [robdel12] does anyone know where / if you can contribute to examples like this?: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-wai-aria-practices-1.1-20160317/examples/radio/radio.html
  26. [robdel12] it’s missing an ID on the h3
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 21:10
    [garcialo] @robdel12 Maybe somewhere like this? https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/blob/4073006c20dffc014333f28a6af0380beb48e770/examples/radio/radio-1/radio-1.html
  28. [garcialo] Oh! @robdel12 nice to see you here :p
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Apr 04 21:26
    [robdel12] Heh, hey! =D
  30. [robdel12] There’s something going on here. In those files the ID is correct
  31. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 04 21:29
    @robdel12 check out the same in the editors draft - http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  32. If it is still a problem log an issue at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues or even better submit a PR