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A11y Slackers
Gitter Channel Archive 31st of July 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Jul 31 03:04
    [monastic.panic, a11y] Hi ya'll have have a aria-hidden question
  2. zakim-robot
    Jul 31 03:05
    [monastic.panic, a11y] we are using the bootstrap collapse plugin with just adds some classes to a div to animate it in or out
  3. zakim-robot
    Jul 31 03:05
    [monastic.panic, a11y] in some cases the div its animating has no semantic meaning, it just needs to exists for styling reasons.
  4. zakim-robot
    Jul 31 03:06
    [monastic.panic, a11y] in those cases does it make sense to but the aria-hidden attribute somewhere else, like up or down a level, rather then giving the collapse div some sort of arbitrary role
  5. stevefaulkner
    Jul 31 07:17
    @monastic.panic aria-hidden is a global attribute that can be used on any HTML element without having a role specified.
  6. zakim-robot
    Jul 31 08:45
    [jitendra, a11y] Does it really help in anything to add
    Copyright © 2015 Company name. All rights reserved.
    In footer?
  7. StommePoes
    Jul 31 08:45
    It's just something lots of companies do because they see other companies do it.
  8. StommePoes
    Jul 31 08:46
    I don't even think it has actual legal standing, but that's my opinion.
  9. StommePoes
    Jul 31 08:46
    It does let users know the site is not abandoned though :) If you see "copyright 2003" on a website, you might think "wow nobody's touched this since forever"
  10. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:05
    jitendra & StommePoes: it has no legal standing in the Netherlands and parts of the EU, because here we automatically have copyright on anything we create. Not so much in the US.
  11. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:05
    So it depends on where you're located.
  12. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:05
    In the US, a creation/creative work also automatically gets "copyright".
  13. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:06
    It's just a good idea to state it, and isn't the same as trademarks, patents or registered marks blah blah.
  14. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:08
    Contrary to popular belief, it's not required; you do not have to use trademark and copyright symbols in your design or copy to guarantee or safeguard your legal rights. - See more at: http://www.digett.com/2010/05/27/brief-guide-using-trademark-and-copyright-symbols#sthash.39BcilrI.dpuf
  15. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:08
    My bad
  16. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:09
    Really? That site totally just added that link when I copied the text…
  17. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:09
    DON"T CHANGE WHAT I COPY!
  18. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:09
    Trademarks are something you go and get, and those are legally defendable.
  19. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:10
    I think people are just used to putting that crap in the footers.
  20. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:10
    @Michiel isn't javascript wonderful? :)
  21. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:11
    My site still says ® 2009 - 3015 MichielBijl, not so much in the redesign
  22. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:11
    Although that was mostly because I thought it was funny :p
  23. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:11
    @Mallory, no it sucks :p
  24. stevefaulkner
    Jul 31 09:14
    morning dutchies
  25. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:15
    Goede morgen Steve ;)
  26. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:22
    goe'e môgge @stevefaulkner
  27. stevefaulkner
    Jul 31 09:23
    😁
  28. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:24
    And since I'm learning Danish, I'll throw a “God morgen alle” in there
  29. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:25
    You saw District 9 Steve? That horrible little rat guy was called Wickus van der Merwe. Merwe is the river I live on (Merwede actually, Merwe is a sort nickname/redneck name for it). A "Wickus" is South African for a white dutch Boer guy, usually used in white-dutch-Boer-guy jokes (like a dumb-blonde joke)
  30. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:25
    Guess a lot of Boeren came from my area
  31. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:25
    Michiel Danish is just weird.
  32. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:25
    Potatoes in the mouth
  33. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:26
    I'll have to learn it if I want to live there
  34. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:26
    Why do you want to live there?
  35. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:26
    Would be a good start anyways :p
  36. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:26
    Trading one flat crap-weather tasteless-food country for another?
  37. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:26
    But yeah, pronunciation of most words is kind of weird.
  38. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:26
    You gonna work for LEGO?
  39. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:26
    True, but I'm done with the Netherlands
  40. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:27
    That is actually one of the companies I was looking at
  41. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:27
    Well, I have a book for you to read
  42. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:27
    They are looking for a front-end developer :p
  43. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:27
    it's about scanewegian countries but the author focusses on Dane land since he lives there
  44. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:27
    But I'm focused on København for now
  45. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:27
    Cool!
  46. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:27
    What's it called?
  47. MichielBijl
    Jul 31 09:30
    I contacted the GBIF, which looks like a really cool place to work, but they don't have any openings for another 6-9 months. Not that I'm in a hurry…
  48. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:33
    something about the happiest people in the world
  49. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:34
    it's a little paperback I saw in the Bruna
  50. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:34
    it's written by a loudmouth Brit so it's biased but funnily so
  51. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:34
    You know how foreigners are good at mocking adopted lands :)
  52. StommePoes
    Jul 31 09:34
    truths are always found
  53. MichielBijl
    09:38
    It's weird how finding it with that meta data is so hard
  54. StommePoes
    09:38
    http://lifewithadoublebuggy.blogspot.nl/2015/07/the-9-steps-to-perfect-dutch-birthday.html
  55. StommePoes
    09:38
    the book? Oh I can find a blurb about it I'm sure
  56. MichielBijl
    09:39
    Yeah
  57. MichielBijl
    09:39
    Haha
  58. StommePoes
    09:40
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Almost-Nearly-Perfect-People/dp/0224089625
  59. StommePoes
    09:40
    this is m, but I'm not reading it twice or anything, next time we meet up I can bring it
  60. MichielBijl
    09:42
    Awesome!
  61. MichielBijl
    09:43
    Let's do so after vacations and what not
  62. StommePoes
    09:44
    you're not making fronteers?
  63. StommePoes
    09:44
    I got a wanbetaler ticket
  64. StommePoes
    09:44
    someone didn't pay
  65. MichielBijl
    09:48
    I didn't sign up because it was sold out
  66. MichielBijl
    09:48
    And I'm pretty broke after London and my upcoming vacation
  67. MichielBijl
    09:48
    That workshop in London cost me about 500 euro
  68. MichielBijl
    09:49
    Well worth it, but still.
  69. MichielBijl
    09:49
    Maybe two vacations in a year isn't always a good idea
  70. MichielBijl
    09:50
    So even if there was another ticket available, I wouldn't be able to pay for it…
  71. StommePoes
    09:53
    maybe you can still show up to the jam session wed night
  72. StommePoes
    09:54
    I did that last year when I couldn't go because saving money for CSUN
  73. MichielBijl
    09:54
    Maybe they won't check like at CSS Day :p
  74. StommePoes
    09:54
    it's not like you ahve a ticket in your hand the night before
  75. StommePoes
    09:54
    tho zeppo's gets pretty full, so if people get shoo'd out, it's for that reason
  76. MichielBijl
    09:58
    I'll see what I can manage
  77. StommePoes
    10:00
    otherwise, meetups like DOM code. I have to decide if I'm giving a talk 25 augustus
  78. MichielBijl
    10:00
    I'll be in Denmark around that time
  79. MichielBijl
    10:01
    Oh no, wait, I return the 23rd
  80. MichielBijl
    10:01
    Have a link to DOM code?
  81. MichielBijl
    10:03
    Would be cool to see you give a talk
  82. StommePoes
    10:03
    doesn't look like they've got the new date up yet http://www.meetup.com/DomCode/
  83. StommePoes
    10:03
    but, the other planned speaker realised he/she had vacation planned that day so backed out.
  84. StommePoes
    10:03
    I have to decide by monday or so
  85. StommePoes
    10:03
    I want to give an a11y talk but that needs more work than I have time for, so maybe that one later (feb?). It'll be about sphinx/full-text search.
  86. MichielBijl
    10:04
    If you need any help with a talk; you know where to find me :)
  87. StommePoes
    10:05
    : )
  88. MichielBijl
    10:05
    Not sure what you had in mind, but code examples, research, the lot, I can help.
  89. MichielBijl
    10:05
    Or at least try :p
  90. StommePoes
    10:05
    oh for the a11y talk?
  91. MichielBijl
    10:05
    Ja :)
  92. StommePoes
    10:05
    I want a little bit about switch control, but not play a whole film by Chris Hills
  93. StommePoes
    10:06
    so animated gifs would be cool of some screenshots he's got
  94. MichielBijl
    10:06
    Would make for an easy talk :p
  95. MichielBijl
    10:06
    animated gifs are cool
  96. StommePoes
    10:06
    I've already got two screenshots of really shitty autocraptions from youtube from Michael Lockrey
  97. MichielBijl
    10:07
    I can definitely help with animations as long as they use somewhat geometric shapes.
  98. zakim-robot
    10:07
    [jitendra, a11y] https://medium.com/medium-eng/five-goofy-things-medium-did-that-break-accessibility-3bc804ae818d
  99. MichielBijl
    10:07
    My pen tool skills are not all that fantastic
  100. MichielBijl
    10:08
    @jitendra: it's weird that article is written by a Medium employee, and they still do most of what's on the list…
  101. MichielBijl
    10:10
    Mallory, if you want to do the talk and need some help with animations, just shoot me
  102. MichielBijl
    10:10
    an e-mail at rainbows at agosto.nl
  103. StommePoes
    10:11
    rainbows? will I get an auto-reply with nyancat?
  104. MichielBijl
    10:12
    Haha, I can set it up if you want to
  105. MichielBijl
    10:12
    You can also mail to michiel at codingkittens.com
  106. MichielBijl
    10:12
    Up to you
  107. StommePoes
    10:13
    kittens? will I get an auto-reply with nyancat?
  108. MichielBijl
    10:22
    I can set it up if you want ;)
  109. MichielBijl
    10:22
    That website is the most useless, but fun thing, I own
  110. MichielBijl
    10:22
    And it's totally not accessible :x
  111. StommePoes
    10:26
    i use mutt so I'd never see a nyan anyway
  112. stevefaulkner
    10:48

    A11ySlackers chat log 30th of July 2015 - http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/300715.html

  113. stevefaulkner
    10:50

    @StommePoes >You saw District 9 Steve?

    yeah i did

  114. stevefaulkner
    12:09
    Talking of placeholder, there is an interesting (to me at least) Bug 28409 should we include placeholder attribute in accessible name calculation? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28409 which could have effect of breaking current fallback name calculation for many controls which only have placeholder text as a label.
  115. StommePoes
    12:10
    can you "if !label, add placeholder to the list of possible name sources" ?
  116. stevefaulkner
    12:11
    @StommePoes thats what is specced, and implemented in browser currently
  117. StommePoes
    12:11
    I'm missing why we might want to change that then?
  118. stevefaulkner
    12:11
    http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/#accessible-name-and-description-calculation
  119. StommePoes
    12:13
    That numbered list looks good.
  120. stevefaulkner
    12:15
    What has been suggested is that a aria-placeholder property be added in Acc APIs http://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/#ariaPlaceholder and the HTML placeholder attribute maps to aria-placeholder and so placeholder does not figure in acc name calculation
  121. stevefaulkner
    12:16
    I can see advantages of this, but it has no bakcward compatibility story (thus am pushing back on it) have asked browser implementers for their input on issue
  122. StommePoes
    12:16
    Will this result in cleaner code? because I can bet a box of ding-dongs nobody writes aria-placeholder and then no label
  123. StommePoes
    12:16
    cleaner code for the vendors I mean
  124. StommePoes
    12:17
    I didn't even know there was an aria-placeholder
  125. StommePoes
    12:17
    if it does what I think it does, it could solve a problem I happen to be having right now, but I notice I have trouble reading these kinds of specs (the last one) and knowing from that what good code/practice would be.
  126. stevefaulkner
    12:17
    dunno, but authors will not need to write aria-placeholder on elements that support placeholder
    right, its new
  127. StommePoes
    12:18
    yeah I figured it would be some automatic assignment based on any actual old-fashioned placeholders.
  128. StommePoes
    12:18
    But so I'm wondering if there's some benefit then to the vendors by implementing this
  129. stevefaulkner
    12:18
    the mapping specs are aimed at browser implementers
  130. stevefaulkner
    12:18
    dunno
  131. StommePoes
    12:19
    because otherwise it sounds like it changes something that currently works to something else for some unknown reason
  132. stevefaulkner
    12:19
    yeah, thats what I think
  133. StommePoes
    12:19
    like, keeping our CPUs warm or something
  134. StommePoes
    12:34
    Weren't there a couple of browsers who wouldn't submit forms with more than a single input onEnter?
  135. MichielBijl
    12:51
    Since placeholders should convey the format for an input, why would that be used as an acc name?
  136. MichielBijl
    12:51
    Seems weird to me
  137. MichielBijl
    12:51
    It feels like it'd add yet another way for authors to be sloppy with code
  138. zakim-robot
    12:59
    [Karl Groves, a11y] @michielBijl IMO placeholder should be used for accessible description.
  139. MichielBijl
    13:01
    How do you mean Karl Groves?
  140. stevefaulkner
    13:03
    @MichielBijl note that it is not saying that it is conforming to do so, its about implementing realistic fallback, for cases where authors don't do the right thing
  141. zakim-robot
    13:04
    [Karl Groves, a11y] In nearly all cases the accessible name is derived from the text node or an explicit association. The title attribute is often used as last resort. The placeholder is currently used as acc name as last-last resort. But the description of @placeholder in the spec suggests that it is used for help text so, IMO, browsers should map it to acc description
  142. MichielBijl
    13:04
    Right :)
  143. MichielBijl
    13:05
    @stevefaulkner: so a fallback for label (wrapped by, or linked), aria-describedby, and I feel like I'm missing something.
  144. stevefaulkner
    13:07
    @MichielBijl in cases where authros do not provide a label or aria-label the placeholder content is used
  145. MichielBijl
    13:07
    Right, so would this potentially break anything?
  146. stevefaulkner
    13:08

    Here is 5565 examples of usage of the placeholder attribute (from partial
    grep of top 87,000 web site home pages: source latest data set 2015-01-08 (780
    Mb)
    http://files.paciellogroup.com/HTMLData/webdevdata.org-2015-01-07-112944.7z
    87,000
    pages.)

    LARGE HTML file (6mb)
    http://www.html5accessibility.com/HTML5data/top15000-placeholder.html

    If you take the time to review this data, it quickly becomes evident, that
    despite 'best practice' and the definition of what a placeholder should be,
    it more often than not provides an accessible name for an input.

  147. StommePoes
    13:09
    Even worse, when I'm forced to use placeholders to show the label... I can have a label too, but then the placeholder needs to be ignored because it's not help text. And the few times it really is help text, yeah as Karl said, needs to be additional as description
  148. stevefaulkner
    13:10
    and yes it would break current/past AT and future versions until they catch up
  149. stevefaulkner
    13:10
    as now AT don't have to know its a placeholder
  150. MichielBijl
    13:11
    Safari doesn't like that file…
  151. stevefaulkner
    13:11
    as its exposed through standard acc name property in most cases
  152. stevefaulkner
    13:12
    stepping away...
  153. MichielBijl @MichielBijl feels sad that so many websites get it wrong
  154. StommePoes
    13:13
    Wish more people did the fake placeholder thing
  155. StommePoes
    13:13
    like the signup thingie on weps.be way down by the footer
  156. StommePoes
    13:13
    they wanted a placeholder. They think they got one.
  157. StommePoes
    13:13
    Others have done similar tricks
  158. MichielBijl
    13:14
    Yeah that stuff is great, and easy to implement
  159. MichielBijl
    13:14
    This is special:
  160. MichielBijl
    13:14
    <label for="search-text">
  161. MichielBijl
    13:14
    <input id="search-text" type="text" name="q" placeholder="search" title="search">
  162. MichielBijl
    13:14
    <span></span>
  163. MichielBijl
    13:14
    </label>
  164. MichielBijl
    13:14
    Add a label, but no text…
  165. zakim-robot
    13:16
    [heydon, a11y] @Karl Groves: It's only worth it if it appears on focus too, imo. That's the other problem.
  166. zakim-robot
    13:16
    [Karl Groves, a11y] +1
  167. deborahgu
    13:27
    Can't we just invade the forums where designers trade ideas about minimalistic web design and hold their dogs hostage while Jakob Nielsen glares at them crossly until they cry?
  168. MichielBijl
    13:28
    We should get Joey Tribbiani to do his crazy eyes things
  169. deborahgu
    13:28
    Maybe we could get John Stewart to give a last minute speech about form and icon labels. People listen to him.
  170. MichielBijl
    13:28
    That'll show ‘em
  171. MichielBijl
    13:28
    deborahgu: just have Stephan Fry narrate the whole thing
  172. deborahgu
    13:29
    ...now I want a David Attenborough narrated documentary on the Great Feral Designalope.
  173. MichielBijl
    13:29
    haha
  174. StommePoes
    13:30
    Designers cringe at nielsen
  175. StommePoes
    13:30
    because whatever blah-blah comes out of his mouth, they know one thing:
  176. StommePoes
    13:30
    his website is damn fugly.
  177. MichielBijl
    13:30
    Hmm, currently working on a website that is in phase 1; simple one page thingy. Other pages will be added in phase 2, but I'm not so sure I'll be the developer on the project during phase 2. Should I include a skip link now, even though there is no navigation to skip?
  178. deborahgu
    13:31
    Yeah, StommePoes, I wish the W3C would pretty-up as well. I feel like they're modelling "standards compliant websites look like 2002.
  179. StommePoes
    13:32
    Michiel you can add an empty starter for the next guy
  180. MichielBijl
    13:32
    I'm most certain another developer here would never add one.
  181. deborahgu
    13:32
    MichielBijl: yes, so it will not just exist but be coded right, not just for screen readers
  182. StommePoes
    13:32
    and have some commented out css
  183. deborahgu
    13:32
    Oh I like that StommePoes
  184. deborahgu
    13:33
    comment it out with a big obvious block comment saying HEY WHEN NAV IS ADDED REMOVE THIS COMMENT AND THE ONE IN CSS
  185. StommePoes
    13:33
    ja
  186. MichielBijl
    13:33
    That might work… :p
  187. StommePoes
    13:33
    or, in my current skiplink setup, I have 3, and one of them is for the "company footer"
  188. StommePoes
    13:33
    but not all sites have a company footer
  189. MichielBijl
    13:33
    I'll code it now and then comment it out
  190. StommePoes
    13:33
    a sort fat-footer with links etc
  191. MichielBijl
    13:33
    I'll just shadow the guy whose up next
  192. StommePoes
    13:33
    so when I want it to be "available" on a shop, I display: block it per shop... otherwise it's display none
  193. StommePoes
    13:34
    Michiel maybe he'll read a README
  194. StommePoes
    13:34
    I gotta make a README for my stuff actually... not going to be around forever
  195. MichielBijl
    13:34
    More like, MAYBEREADMEPRETTYPLEASE.md
  196. MichielBijl
    13:35
    Yeah, I saw your multi skiplink thingy, that's nice
  197. MichielBijl
    14:20
    There should be a PostCSS plugin that allows you to write colour the way it's supposed to be written
  198. StommePoes
    14:21
    wow, employee of a client of ours uses Dolphin supernova
  199. StommePoes
    14:21
    you mean colour: #f00?
  200. MichielBijl
    14:21
    yes
  201. StommePoes
    14:21
    meh, one less letter to type
  202. StommePoes
    14:21
    can't argue with that :P
  203. MichielBijl
    14:21
    clr: #f00
  204. MichielBijl
    14:22
    Just abbreviate the lot
  205. MichielBijl
    14:22
    That would be hell
  206. MichielBijl
    14:22
    Do you mean: http://yourdolphin.com
  207. MichielBijl
    14:22
    ?
  208. StommePoes
    14:23
    http://www.yourdolphin.com/productdetailnew.asp?id=5
  209. StommePoes
    14:23
    yeah, guy even has this version (14)
  210. StommePoes
    14:24
    but now to use our software he's running an oracle vm with Vinux with Orca (no idea which version of Orca) to use our GTK stuff
  211. StommePoes
    14:24
    and he can reach everything except readonlies
  212. StommePoes
    14:24
    and I haven't figured out why yet, since i hear real vague descriptions of the problem
  213. StommePoes
    14:24
    so I'm hoping to get some python code that makes the form controls
  214. StommePoes
    14:25
    they're not tabbable, but shouldn't be I don't think. They can receive focus with click, question is are they accessible to flat review
  215. StommePoes
    14:26
    "De focus kan niet naar/over alle velden worden bewogen.
  216. StommePoes
    14:26
    Gegevens read-only is de reden?" <--they added a screenshot which doesn't actually tell me which input is the problem, on a screen I'm unfamilier with.
  217. MichielBijl
    14:29
    Sounds like very bug ever listed by a client
  218. StommePoes
    14:30
    Well the guy can't get to very much in this application and I can't tell how much is Orca's issue and how much is the application's, plus the version of Orca would matter a lot, and this is GTK2
  219. StommePoes
    14:30
    Heck, I'm running GTK3 already
  220. zakim-robot
    17:26
    [benjaminwil, a11y] yo
  221. zakim-robot
    17:52
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Michiel Bijl waves to <@U08EDPK7G|benjaminwil>
  222. zakim-robot
    17:52
    [benjaminwil, a11y] :simple_smile:
  223. zakim-robot
    17:52
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Where are you from?
  224. zakim-robot
    17:53
    [benjaminwil, a11y] i’m living on a little island off the west coast of canada called vancouver island.
  225. zakim-robot
    17:53
    [benjaminwil, a11y] (i'm technically closer to washington state then i am to mainland canada)
  226. zakim-robot
    17:54
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Cool :simple_smile: What kind of work do you do?
  227. zakim-robot
    17:56
    [benjaminwil, a11y] i quit my job about 8 weeks ago to be a freelance writer, editor, and content designer. i’m still figuring out exactly what kind of projects i want to work on, but i know i’m interested in presenting complex information in beautiful, accessibly, information-friendly ways.
  228. zakim-robot
    17:57
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Sounds interesting.
  229. zakim-robot
    17:57
    [benjaminwil, a11y] what about you!
  230. zakim-robot
    17:57
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Any luck finding projects?
  231. zakim-robot
    17:58
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] I’m from Dutchyland and am an accessibility advocate and front-end developer :simple_smile:
  232. zakim-robot
    17:58
    [benjaminwil, a11y] i’m helping a guy do content strategy for his new business, and i’m going to be working on a bunch of product documentation shortly!
  233. zakim-robot
    17:58
    [benjaminwil, a11y] if i could just write documentation for the rest of my life i’d be happy probably.
  234. zakim-robot
    17:59
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Haha, documentation is fun, if you do it right.
  235. zakim-robot
    17:59
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] Lot of projects could use good documentation…
  236. zakim-robot
    17:59
    [benjaminwil, a11y] yeah, i feel pretty strongly about it.
  237. zakim-robot
    17:59
    [benjaminwil, a11y] as an amateur front-end developer who needs all the help i can get, sometimes these github repos don’t cut it.
  238. zakim-robot
    18:11
    [Michiel Bijl, a11y] I know what you mean, I see repo’s with a bunch of commands thrown into a readme file with the words “Good luck” a few too many times…
  239. zakim-robot
    18:12
    [benjaminwil, a11y] ^
  240. zakim-robot
    18:23
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] Who's going to be at Open Web Conf tomorrow?
  241. zakim-robot
    18:37
    [Matt May, a11y] @Marcy Sutton and I will be.
  242. MichielBijl
    18:43
    fghokl;
  243. zakim-robot
    19:07
    [Wendy Chisholm, a11y] Will someone at owc tomorrow have an iPad to projector doohicky that I could borrow?
  244. zakim-robot
    19:11
    [dylanb, a11y] I wish I was going to be there
  245. zakim-robot
    19:18
    [estelle, a11y] I will be at OpenWebCamp tomorrow too
  246. zakim-robot
    19:18
    [estelle, a11y] Speaking on Web Forms
  247. zakim-robot
    20:26
    [James Nurthen, a11y] Wish I was there too - but off on vacation tomorrow.
  248. zakim-robot
    00:11
    [Joe Watkins, a11y] hmmf! Accessibility Developer Tools extension for Chrome was creating issues for me with DevTools and "split panels" https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=515608
  249. zakim-robot
    00:15
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @Joe Watkins: whoa, I've noticed that behaviour before but never realised it was affected by the presence of the extension
  250. zakim-robot
    00:15
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Have you tried with other devtools extensions?
  251. zakim-robot
    00:15
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Alice Boxhall goes to look at devtools code to see if it's something obvious
  252. zakim-robot
    00:20
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @Joe Watkins: Yah, looks like this is deliberate: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/devtools/front_end/elements/ElementsPanel.js&sq=package:chromium&l=880
  253. zakim-robot
    00:21
    [Joe Watkins, a11y] wow! good eye.. that explains why the only fix was to close/re-open
  254. zakim-robot
    00:22
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @Joe Watkins: haha I've been working in devtools a lot lately so I vaguely recalled seeing something
  255. zakim-robot
    00:22
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Slightly sad that it happens even when the sidebar pane isn't (and has never even been) showing, though
  256. zakim-robot
    00:24
    [Joe Watkins, a11y] @Alice Boxhall: I thought I was going nuts.. :simple_smile: such awesome support w/Chrome team :simple_smile: tnx very much
  257. zakim-robot
    00:27
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Ah you're welcome! Yeah there are some great folks working on bug triage as well.