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A11y Slackers
Gitter Channel Archive 3rd of August 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Aug 03 03:51
    [saltnburnem, a11y] Hey whatsup everyone?
  2. stevefaulkner
    Aug 03 08:36
    To get Accessibility API inspection tools for Windows 10, download the Windows 10 SDK https://dev.windows.com/en-us/downloads/windows-10-sdk
  3. zakim-robot
    09:52
    [Katy Moe, a11y] I’ve just been asked about US Section 508 compliance (apparently some school districts require it before a product can be used in schools) and whether we have a "VPAT Voluntary Product Accessibility Template”. We’re a Norwegian/British company with no experience in this. Can anyone recommend a guide to how to provide these things for our users?
  4. StommePoes
    09:54
    It looks like an a11y testing tool
  5. StommePoes
    09:55
    but I guess one that gov't officials can use before making a purchase
  6. StommePoes
    09:55
    so I wonder if you have to sort of "write to the test"
  7. StommePoes
    09:55
    actually, it may not even be a tool
  8. StommePoes
    09:55
    but a checklist.
  9. zakim-robot
    09:55
    [Katy Moe, a11y] so do we fill it in or do the government officials do it?
  10. zakim-robot
    09:55
    [Katy Moe, a11y] and if the latter, how do we get them to do it?
  11. StommePoes
    09:56
    I think you'd want to get your own copy so you can check that all the 508 points check checked off in your softwares
  12. StommePoes
    09:56
    Are you in contact with any officials? It might be up to them who fills this out.
  13. StommePoes
    09:56
    It seems at first glance that they fill it out
  14. StommePoes
    09:56
    since they show to whomever does purchasing that "hey this software passes this a11y checklist"
  15. zakim-robot
    09:56
    [Katy Moe, a11y] No, I was just asked by a potential user who wants to know whether we have one of these forms
  16. zakim-robot
    09:57
    [Katy Moe, a11y] but I’m not sure if he means he wants us to fill it in for him or not
  17. StommePoes
    09:57
    http://www.itic.org/policy/accessibility they offer a "word version"
  18. StommePoes
    09:57
    hm.
  19. StommePoes
    09:58
    If I were you and it's possible to ask, I'd ask. Otherwise you're spending work time doing a service and you might not be allowed to charge that time.
  20. zakim-robot
    09:58
    [Katy Moe, a11y] you know what, I’ll try asking this at a time when US users are actually going to be awake :simple_smile:
  21. StommePoes
    09:58
    heh
  22. zakim-robot
    09:58
    [Katy Moe, a11y] thanks @StommePoes
  23. zakim-robot
    10:26
    [dylanb, a11y] @Katy Moe: section 508 is an outdated accessibility standard that (at some point) is slated to be aligned with WCAG 2 level A and AA
  24. zakim-robot
    10:26
    [dylanb, a11y] (don't hold your breath)
  25. zakim-robot
    10:27
    [dylanb, a11y] in essence a VPAT is a statement about all the portions of the system that are not accessible
  26. zakim-robot
    10:28
    [dylanb, a11y] http://www.deque.com/services/certifications/
  27. zakim-robot
    10:29
    [dylanb, a11y] I just realized that link is not super useful - sorry
  28. StommePoes
    10:29
    dylanb since US govt stuff is still required to follow section 508, does it matter that it's outdated? it's more a matter of law than what works for a11y
  29. StommePoes
    10:30
    and I thought this year that was supposed to get that update...
  30. zakim-robot
    10:30
    [dylanb, a11y] http://www.state.gov/m/irm/impact/126343.htm
  31. dylanb
    10:32
    @StommePoes correct - it does not matter - however there are only a few areas that are different from WCAG 2 AA so if you shoot for that, you will be good now and good whenever they refresh
  32. dylanb
    10:32
    The refresh has been "imminent" for years
  33. StommePoes
    10:37
    Yeah, but I mean as far as getting a contract with a govt anything, you have to prove you pass 508 (meaning also anything weird that is in 508 and not WCAG2)...
  34. StommePoes
    10:37
    of course I don't mean don't go for modern standards too : )
  35. stevefaulkner
    10:39
    @kmoe this may be helpful http://www.tomjewett.com/accessibility/508-WCAG2.html
  36. stevefaulkner
    10:40
    @kmoe here are some VPAT examples for google products http://www.google.com/sites/accessibility.html
  37. StommePoes
    10:40
    though it still doesn't answer "who fills in the VPAT"
  38. stevefaulkner
    10:41
    @StommePoes the product vendor or soemone they get to fill it in
  39. StommePoes
    10:41
    so, they have to fill it in
  40. StommePoes
    10:41
    The company
  41. stevefaulkner
    10:41
    @StommePoes we produce VPATs for clients as part of work
  42. stevefaulkner
    10:42
    yes
  43. StommePoes
    10:42
    ok, I think that answers katy's question, her company must fill that in.
  44. dylanb
    10:48
    her company must maintain one of those along with the product development for each individual product
  45. zakim-robot
    11:31
    [dylanb, a11y] Looking for input on the next aXe quick start guide http://goo.gl/forms/EtxqLhS2KQ
  46. zakim-robot
    11:31
    [dylanb, a11y] As well as the next aXe integration http://goo.gl/forms/1FRqKRNTFS
  47. zakim-robot
    11:38
    [Katy Moe, a11y] thanks guys - so to confirm, my company (Kahoot!, the company that makes the product that is being evaluated by the school district) has to fill in the VPAT form and make it available
  48. stevefaulkner
    11:39
    @kmoe yes
  49. zakim-robot
    11:40
    [Katy Moe, a11y] thank you!
  50. stevefaulkner
    11:41
    @kmoe if you do one, ping me and I can look over it for you
  51. zakim-robot
    11:41
    [Katy Moe, a11y] the Google examples are very helpful
  52. zakim-robot
    11:41
    [Katy Moe, a11y] @stevefaulkner thank you very much - should we be making it publicly available ideally?
  53. stevefaulkner
    11:41
    @kmoe yes
  54. stevefaulkner
    11:42
    and note that you don't have to have passes for everything, but if you don't conform suggest providing a roadmap for fixes
  55. zakim-robot
    11:44
    [Katy Moe, a11y] that makes sense
  56. stevefaulkner
    11:58

    A11ySlacker Chat log 2nd August - real slow day, time to listen to some Rock and Roll http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/020815.html

  57. zakim-robot
    12:07
    [callumacrae, a11y] neat, are you guys on gitter now? or irc?
  58. stevefaulkner
    12:08
    @callumacrae I am on gitter
  59. techthomas
    12:10
    J’adore gitter!
  60. zakim-robot
    12:11
    [callumacrae, a11y] nice
  61. zakim-robot
    12:46
    [Katy Moe, a11y] we’ve got people on Gitter, pidgin, various IRC clients, Slack… :simple_smile:
  62. stevefaulkner
    12:59
    Connecting to A11ySlackers over IRC https://github.com/w3c/a11ySlackers#connecting-to-gitter-over-irc
  63. zakim-robot
    13:03
    [callumacrae, a11y] ah are you using sameroom? or just a lot of bridges?
  64. stevefaulkner
    13:08
    @callumacrae have one dedicated sameroom pipe between gitter/slack, for irc gitter bridge
  65. MichielBijl
    13:09
    Does someone remember an article on automatic video playback in headers/hero sections?
  66. MichielBijl
    13:10
    It had some great points (used PayPal as an example of a website that does it right)
  67. MichielBijl
    13:10
    Have a project with automatic video playback, and need some resources to back me up
  68. MichielBijl
    13:26
    This is the one: http://www.punkchip.com/accessible-html-video-as-a-background/
  69. stevefaulkner
    13:52
    FYI Media Player Accessibility Comparisons https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QJVcXx5hTWYBcJbHJD3DrL3hSFVbfy1VQFyADMtrDFY/edit#gid=0
  70. StommePoes
    13:52
    henny had a list as well
  71. StommePoes
    13:54
    she posted this http://www.iheni.com/accessible-media-player-resources/
  72. stevefaulkner
    14:05
    @StommePoes yeah thats a meta list, a good one too!
  73. techthomas
    14:19
    @stevefaulkner nice drive doc on Media Player Accessibility comparisons… how do new ones get added to list? I’m curious about Vimeo
  74. stevefaulkner
    14:20
    @iheni will know, will ask
  75. techthomas
    14:24
    @stevefaulkner @iheni thanks! i’m especially interested in the audio description examples. it would be great if the drive doc linked to at least a few sample pages that are showing off all of the bells and whistles of the supported functionality
  76. zakim-robot
    14:27
    [Henny Swan, a11y] Hi @Thomas Logan, you’re best bet is to contact Terrill Thompson or Ken Petri. You can try Terrill via his website: http://terrillthompson.com/blog/contact. I did a review of BBC iPlayer (as I worked on iPlayer) for them a while back by making my own copy of the doc then sending it back over to them. The results haven’t been included yet so they may be verifying them. I’m planning on looking at Netflix next.
  77. techthomas
    14:28
    Excellent will do that now!
  78. zakim-robot
    14:28
    [Henny Swan, a11y] Nice one.
  79. zakim-robot
    14:28
    [Henny Swan, a11y] Examples would be good to link to. Do you work on media player accessibility @Thomas Logan?
  80. zakim-robot
    14:29
    [Henny Swan, a11y] We need more folk doing this...
  81. techthomas
    14:31
    @iheni I’ve just completed some multimedia with all the various assets (transcripts, audio descriptions, captions) and would be happy to try to put the content through a few different player scenarios. I’m trying to find the best one :)
  82. zakim-robot
    14:46

    [andrew.holgate, a11y] https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/general/p1438606331002823

    How up-to-date is this list? I had the idea that JW Player was WCAG2 compliant?

  83. sethlopezme
    15:09
    what are your thoughts on http://plyr.io/?
  84. stevefaulkner
    15:16
    @sethlopezme looks pretty good a11y wise after a quick look :clap:
  85. MichielBijl
    15:19
    Keyboard support seems solid
  86. MichielBijl
    15:19
    Seems the player receives focus but isn't activated with space
  87. MichielBijl
    15:20
    Ah
  88. MichielBijl
    15:20
    That's the seek bar, no focus state, that's why
  89. MichielBijl
    15:22
    Not sure how AT's should handle subs, so can't comment on that
  90. stevefaulkner
    16:06

    How up-to-date is this list? I had the idea that JW Player was WCAG2 compliant?

    I believe it is being activly updated so should be current

  91. stevefaulkner
    16:13
    @dylanb good to see someone with UI skills got their hands on the axe for firefox ;-)
  92. zakim-robot
    16:13
    [monastic.panic, a11y] hey folks, does anyone know if changing an id on an element does weird things for screen readers? I have a technical issue where I can't easily set unique ids up front
  93. zakim-robot
    16:14
    [monastic.panic, a11y] the specific is example is changing a list item id from: option_1 -> option_selected for use with aria-activedescendant
  94. rodneyrehm
    16:17
    While I don’t know of any particular problems, fear of tools reacting bad to changes in IDs is what kept me from doing what you’re trying
  95. stevefaulkner
    16:20
    If id's are being used in accessible relation properties such as activedescendent i suspect that you may encounter issues
  96. dylanb
    16:34
    @stevefaulkner it is indeed
  97. stevefaulkner
    16:37
    @dylanb axe is one of the very few automated tools i use, thanks!
  98. dylanb
    16:40
    @stevefaulkner that is an honor indeed sir - thank you!
  99. zakim-robot
    16:52
    [leegiles, a11y] Hey, I’m Lee, a designer at lostmy.name - working with @callumacrae. I wondered if there were any stand out resources you guys use that would give me a deep dive into designing for accessibility?
  100. MichielBijl
    16:53
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK1tlLOavvM is a good start :)
  101. zakim-robot
    16:57
    [Lee Giles, a11y] oh amazing! thanks @Michiel Bijl
  102. MichielBijl
    16:57
    Thank @LjWatson ;)
  103. zakim-robot
    17:10
    [Lee Giles, a11y] @Francis Storr: Thanks for the recommendation - it sounds perfect
  104. MichielBijl
    17:12
    @Lee Giles: I'd also recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkMCQR4TpY by Alice Bartlett
  105. zakim-robot
    17:18
    [callumacrae, a11y] I saw her do that talk at jQuery UK. The bit where they showed the users trying to use the select boxes was painful. I don't think they're allowing that bit online, though
  106. MichielBijl
    17:18
    @callumacrae: true
  107. MichielBijl
    17:18
    Privacy issues
  108. zakim-robot
    17:19
    [Robin Whittleton, a11y] Worth pointing out that we’re currently hiring for developers at GDS, so if you want to see users in the lab in real life… :simple_smile:
  109. zakim-robot
    17:20
    [Robin Whittleton, a11y] (although more specifically back-end / full-stack developers at the moment, not sure how many people here that applies to)
  110. MichielBijl
    17:21
    “When your Backend Dev tries to be a Full-Stack Developer...” https://twitter.com/RichRogersHDS/status/627882451373703168
  111. zakim-robot
    17:23
    [Robin Whittleton, a11y] That’s why we have a team of front-end devs too :simple_smile:
  112. MichielBijl
    17:23
    Hehe
  113. zakim-robot
    17:28
    [Matt May, a11y] There's a more or less standard form for this: http://www.state.gov/m/irm/impact/126343.htm
  114. zakim-robot
    18:57
    [dylanb, a11y] Protractor is currently leading the pack in terms of requests for an aXe integration...do you have suggestions http://goo.gl/forms/z7jfQtkeZO
  115. zakim-robot
    18:58
    [dylanb, a11y] @Marcy Sutton: I may be coming your way to ask for help :simple_smile:
  116. zakim-robot
    18:59
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] ooooh
  117. zakim-robot
    18:59
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] You could do a PR on the accessibility plugin and add a third option
  118. zakim-robot
    18:59
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] It could use some improvements I’m sure
  119. zakim-robot
    19:01
    [dylanb, a11y] that would definitely be the way to go...
  120. zakim-robot
    19:01
    [dylanb, a11y] can I hit you up if I run into issues or need help?
  121. zakim-robot
    19:01
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Definitely! It was not easy at first. I wrote about it, which may help: http://marcysutton.com/angular-protractor-accessibility-plugin/
  122. zakim-robot
    19:05
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] One improvement I want to make is the error message font colors: either make them configurable or only color a graphical icon in red/green (I think a11y by Addy does this? Can’t run it from our network). There are technical challenges in Protractor to making the colors configurable IIRC
  123. zakim-robot
    19:05
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] https://github.com/angular/protractor/issues/1854#issuecomment-119269984
  124. zakim-robot
    20:35
    [Val Head, a11y] Hi all! I’m doing a little research and I’m looking to chat with folks who use assistive technology about how animation affects their use of the web. Maybe that’s one of you? Or maybe you know someone who might be up for it? I’d love to hear about any info you have come across on animation and accessibility in your work too.
  125. zakim-robot
    20:37
    [Katy Moe, a11y] Sounds really interesting - I’d love to hear your results!
  126. zakim-robot
    20:39
    [dylanb, a11y] when you say "animation", are you talking about "informational animation" or "cosmetic animation"? In either case, are you talking about CSS animation, DOM animation or some other technologies?
  127. zakim-robot
    20:42
    [Val Head, a11y] @dylanb both kinds. I’m looking at any UI animation you’d encounter on a site done with web technologies. So CSS, SVG, JS or JS library… anything that’s not Flash or a similar plug-in type thing.
  128. zakim-robot
    20:43
    [Val Head, a11y] @Katy Moe it’s been super interesting so far. I’v been focusing on vestibular disorders at first which has already been very eye-opening!
  129. zakim-robot
    20:54
    [dylanb, a11y] @Val Head: it sounds super interesting...how do we find out about your results?
  130. zakim-robot
    20:59
    [Val Head, a11y] @dylanb: The final results will end up in my book on designing interface animations (http://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/designing-interface-animations/). But I’ll post some info on my site along the way too. I’ll post links here to anything I post. Always happy to share :simple_smile:
  131. zakim-robot
    21:08
    [dylanb, a11y] @Val Head: excellent - thank you!
  132. zakim-robot
    21:33
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] That sounds amazing! @Greg Tarnoff would be a great person to talk to if you haven’t already @Val Head
  133. zakim-robot
    21:34
    [Greg Tarnoff, a11y] My ears are burning…what’s up? :simple_smile:
  134. zakim-robot
    21:35
    [Greg Tarnoff, a11y] @Marcy Sutton: @Val Head and I have chatted a bunch already, but I’m always happy to add in more input!
  135. zakim-robot
    21:36
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Awesome!
  136. zakim-robot
    21:37
    [Val Head, a11y] @Greg Tarnoff: hehe I was just going to say I’ve probably talked your ear off already about it :simple_smile: Would love to chat about accessibility beyond vestibular disorders if you have time though!
  137. zakim-robot
    21:38
    [Greg Tarnoff, a11y] Just today, Rachel Nabors put out an episode of Infinite Canvas where we talk about animation and vestibular disorders. https://youtu.be/QhnIZh0xwk0?list=PLeYLmrEg0OPlyZ5mKBZE2No1lLIJWpPx4
  138. zakim-robot
    21:39
    [Greg Tarnoff, a11y] @Val Head: Definitely. The last few weeks have been insane, but I might have something in like two weeks.
  139. zakim-robot
    21:43
    [Val Head, a11y] @Greg Tarnoff: I’ll make a note to bug you in a couple weeks :wink:
  140. zakim-robot
    21:48
    [Greg Tarnoff, a11y] Sounds good!
  141. stevefaulkner
    23:13
    hey @rodneyrehm started reading your focus opus not too late to comment?
  142. zakim-robot
    00:08
    [Derek Featherstone, a11y] !here|@here: question, because I seem to have missed something. How come so many people are listed as BOT now?
  143. zakim-robot
    00:08
    [Stephanie Rewis, a11y] Am I?
  144. zakim-robot
    00:08
    [Stephanie Rewis, a11y] (Howdy, buddy!)
  145. zakim-robot
    00:08
    [Derek Featherstone, a11y] @Stephanie Rewis: nope, you’re no bot :simple_smile: and hi!
  146. zakim-robot
    00:09
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @Derek Featherstone They are coming from the linked gitter channel
  147. zakim-robot
    00:09
    [Derek Featherstone, a11y] @Alice Boxhall the whozzat what now?
  148. zakim-robot
    00:09
    [estelle, a11y] what is a linked gitter channel?
  149. zakim-robot
    00:09
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] https://gitter.im/w3c/a11ySlackers
  150. zakim-robot
    00:11
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] The message I just pinned explains it :simple_smile:
  151. zakim-robot
    00:11
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] The most annoying part is the non-linkified links - have filed feedback with Slack on that
  152. zakim-robot
    00:12
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Though the all identical user pics is also annoying
  153. zakim-robot
    00:12
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] But gitter is apparently better for a11y, plus it's world readable and open source, so some folks prefer it - hence the pipe
  154. zakim-robot
    00:15
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] ("better" = "the IRC bridge is less noisy")
  155. zakim-robot
    00:17
    [Derek Featherstone, a11y] Hmmmm… interesting
  156. zakim-robot
    00:17
    [Derek Featherstone, a11y] I was unaware :simple_smile:
  157. zakim-robot
    00:47
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] It adds a bit of noise…but it allows the conversations to be archived outside of Slack, and also allows people to use alternative (or more accessible) interfaces
  158. zakim-robot
    00:54
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] I think the only "noise" is the lack of profile pics - the conversation seems to flow pretty much just the same as if we were all sitting in Slack
  159. zakim-robot
    00:59
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] That and links are not hyperlinked..but that sounds related to the bug you filed. It’s similarly noisy in Gitter when we post from Slack.