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A11y Slackers
Gitter Channel Archive 4th of August 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Aug 04 01:00
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] I personally use Slack because I have a bunch of other accounts, and I can switch between them in the desktop app.
  2. zakim-robot
    Aug 04 01:08
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] I use Slack because of all the channels we have here
  3. zakim-robot
    Aug 04 01:09
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] only #general is piped through to Gitter
  4. zakim-robot
    Aug 04 01:09
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] (afaik)
  5. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 02:53
    I’ve so far not had need to use Slack for anything. Not sure how I’ve avoided it, but I guess it’s just that no communities I participate in actively are using it so far.
  6. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 02:57
    so #whatwg is still my main place to chat with the people I work most closely with, and my W3C collaborators are mostly still using IRC (e.g., the #testing channel on irc.w3.org) and then #webkit and #blink on Freenode and #developers and #servo on irc.mozilla.org for getting in touch with browser devs there when needed (the ones who aren’t on #whatwg)
  7. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 02:57
    This message was deleted
  8. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 02:58
    ah, starting a line with # here, probably don’t wanna do that
  9. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 02:59
    @sideshowbarker yeah took me a while to work that out :-)
  10. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:00
    @alice yes only #general
  11. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:01

    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] It adds a bit of noise…but it allows the conversations to be archived outside of Slack, and also allows people to use alternative (or more accessible) interfaces

    Do the Terms of Service for Slack actually prohibit archiving outside of Slack?

  12. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:01
    @stevefaulkner maybe you know the answer to that
  13. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:02
    I mean, otherwise the lack of non-public archives by default doesn’t seem to me such a major deficiency, as long as you can set up a public archive somewhere yourself so that you can link into and all
  14. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:03
    @sideshowbarker dunno, but the setup of slack makes it more opaque to non plugged in people as I talked about in http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/07/anybody-can-be-an-a11y-slacker/
  15. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:04
    Sure, I understand that. That’s a separate thing
  16. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:04
    Use of gitter also taps into a different user group
  17. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:04
    and I’m not advocating for Slack to the exclusion of anything else
  18. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:04
    bingo
  19. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:04
    yeah
  20. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:05
    I think it’s great that we an have multiple services mirrored back and forth the way y’all have this set up
  21. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:06
    that’s something pretty neat and shouldn’t be taken for granted
  22. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:06
    bravo @stevefaulkner for having gotten the ball rolling on that originally
  23. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:07
    I haven't looked at terms of service or slack APIs as the archiveness factor was predicated in terms of w3c groups usage of gitter as a tool
  24. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:07
    OK
  25. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:07
    but in comparing the various systems, to be clear, IRC doesn't have any archiving at all anywhere by default
  26. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:08
    instead you have to have set up 3rd-party archives like Krijn did at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/
  27. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:08
    right
  28. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:08
    hmm but for this channel it's moot anyway
  29. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:09
    because we do have archives for the Slack discussions
  30. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:09
    because they're the same as the discussions here
  31. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:09
    right
  32. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:10
    so yeah if it’s a violation of the Slack ToS I guess we’re already violating it
  33. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:10
    JFDI
  34. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:10
    amen to that
  35. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:11
    TCB
  36. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:11
    given that slack has API to allow piping be surprised if it was an issue
  37. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:12
    yeah
  38. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:12
    @marcysutton slack to gitter links are linkified
  39. sideshowbarker
    Aug 04 03:13
    TCB—Bachman Turner Overdrive
  40. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:13
    :+1:
  41. stevefaulkner
    Aug 04 03:16
    but yeah, the ability to link people across disparate input channels with minimal downside is cool
  42. rodneyrehm
    08:21
    @stevefaulkner no, it’s not too late to start commenting on the focus opus :) (thank you!)
  43. stevefaulkner
    08:44
    @rodneyrehm :+1:
  44. rodneyrehm
    08:45
    And please don’t hold back. honest and direct feedback may hurt feelings, but since I don’t have any, we’re all good :)
  45. stevefaulkner
    09:00

    A11ySlackers chat log 3rd of August 2015 - http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/030815.html

  46. schalkneethling
    09:02
    Howdy all
  47. schalkneethling
    09:03
    I was wondering. Can someone here suggest a tool for testing color contrast locally? I know about the online tools but, they are not useful when testing something on a local machine or, when the demo server is behind a firewall.
  48. StommePoes
    09:04
    There are browser plugins...
  49. schalkneethling
    09:04
    I have used, and still do us, Sim Daltonism but, it is not exactly what I am looking for here
  50. StommePoes
    09:05
    Though I haven't found one that didn't make my browser slow and janky and were a pain to test with
  51. schalkneethling
    09:05
    @StommePoes which is one of the better one's ?
  52. schalkneethling
    09:06
    Gez Lemon used to have an a11y toolbar for Firefox but, seems that is no longer under development
  53. zakim-robot
    09:06
    [Henny Swan, a11y] @schalkneethling You can try the Color Contrast Analyser http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2008/12/color-contrast-analyzer-22-updated-contrast-ratio/
  54. StommePoes
    09:06
    I had a simulator (which means you-with-good-eyeballs needs to make a judgement call) called colourblinding https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/colorblinding/dgbgleaofjainknadoffbjkclicbbgaa which has a lot of different variants.
  55. StommePoes
    09:06
    oh woops
  56. StommePoes
    09:06
    I'm misreading this
  57. StommePoes
    09:06
    about contrast, not colourblindness
  58. schalkneethling
    09:07
    yes contrast ;) for color blindness sim daltonism works great
  59. StommePoes
    09:07
    There's one by University of North carolina but it's the slowest thing evar, not very useful for me and crashes my browser.
  60. schalkneethling
    09:07
    :(
  61. StommePoes
    09:07
    So I manually use Lea Verou's thing on github :)
  62. schalkneethling
    09:07
    hmmm, right. Let me have a look at that one
  63. schalkneethling
    09:09
    the wcag contrast checker for Firefox seems pretty decent so far
  64. StommePoes
    09:10
    the one thing the north carolina one is definitely useful for, if you only let it check a tiny chunk of the page, is text over images. (chrome only: http://accessibility.oit.ncsu.edu/tools/color-contrast-chrome/)
  65. StommePoes
    09:11
    but don't ever let it check an entire page
  66. schalkneethling
    09:11
    Will have a look, thanks @StommePoes
  67. stevefaulkner
    09:22
    @schalkneethling http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrastanalyser/ has mac/windows versions, one adavnatage is that you can check colours on images, apps etc
  68. schalkneethling
    09:23
    neat, having a look. Thanks @stevefaulkner
  69. StommePoes
    09:24
    @steve nice
  70. schalkneethling
    09:25
    So, basically I need to feed it he foreground and background and it will then tell me go or no go, correct
  71. schalkneethling
    09:26
    Oh man, this is super!!
  72. stevefaulkner
    09:26
    it has eye droppers
  73. schalkneethling
    09:26
    love the color picker
  74. stevefaulkner
    09:26
    or you can put in manually
  75. schalkneethling
    09:26
    really, really awesome. Thanks @stevefaulkner
  76. stevefaulkner
    09:27
    also note it has some simulation fetaures under image menu, they are not well documented (actually not documented at all), but should be easy to work out
  77. stevefaulkner
    09:27
    the simulation features are windows only
  78. schalkneethling
    09:28
    will have a go. Blog post time :)
  79. stevefaulkner
    09:28
    if you want to write documentation would be :clap: :clap:
  80. stevefaulkner
    09:29
  81. schalkneethling
    09:29
    yeah, sure thing.
  82. schalkneethling
    09:29
    w00t
  83. stevefaulkner
    09:31
    CCA is 10 years old this year, been meaning to write about it...
  84. schalkneethling
    09:31
    well, happy birthday :birthday:
  85. stevefaulkner
    09:32
    Started working on it when I was at vision australia (or rather my collaborator mastermind Jun started work on it, I just ask him to build features)
  86. StommePoes
    09:32
    partner in crime
  87. stevefaulkner
    09:33
  88. stevefaulkner
    09:34
    Yakuza
  89. RickSBrown
    09:41
    FYI over in Slack land this conversation ends with: https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/general/p1438676890003011
  90. zakim-robot
    09:41
    [Rick Brown, a11y] Same-o-maticBOT [6:28 PM]
    Oh, no! @a11y-devtools (a11y) on Slack is processing messages through a Sameroom Tube that has exceeded its hourly message limit. @a11y-devtools (a11y) on Slack will be able to exchange messages with this room again, in 31 minutes.
  91. RickSBrown
    09:42
    Same-o-maticBOT [6:28 PM]
    Oh, no! #a11y-devtools (a11y) on Slack is processing messages through a Sameroom Tube that has exceeded its hourly message limit. #a11y-devtools (a11y) on Slack will be able to exchange messages with this room again, in 31 minutes.
  92. RickSBrown
    09:42
    oops
  93. RickSBrown
    09:42
    i posted that in wrong place
  94. stevefaulkner
    09:46
    @RickSBrown wasn't aware of the tube to a11ydev-tools
  95. stevefaulkner
    09:48
    @sideshowbarker so @slackhq do have archives e.g. https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/general/p1438676890003011 but you need to sign in to access, maybe that's configurable, but don't have admin rights so can't check
  96. RickSBrown
    09:48
    yeah it just started sometime today
  97. RickSBrown
    09:49
    Same-o-maticBOT [6:04 PM]
    I've connected 1 new room #a11y-devtools (a11y) on Slack. See map
  98. stevefaulkner
    09:51
    @RickSBrown maybe better to connect to https://gitter.im/w3c/a11y-devtools which i just created?
  99. RickSBrown
    09:53
    @stevefaulkner that makes sense :)
  100. StommePoes
    10:11
    just asked to add Yet Another Slider (carousel) on a site that's "supposed" to work well on mobile. That's like 3 or 4 sliders on a single page.
  101. StommePoes
    10:11
    I'm waiting for them to start complaining that the pages are slow
  102. MichielBijl
    10:32
    @StommePoes: add some more fonts
  103. StommePoes
    10:33
    what, 9 aren't enough?
  104. MichielBijl
    10:33
    Meh, make it 12, at least!
  105. StommePoes
    10:33
    the designer also wanted some animated SVGs but luckily nobody here knows jack about SVG
  106. MichielBijl
    10:33
    Maybe link to some 500mb PDF that will automatically download upon load
  107. rodneyrehm
    10:55
    did I do something stupid or is firefox (suddenly?) considering <section> a keyboard focusable element?
  108. MichielBijl
    11:01
    rodneyrehm: you mean it's in the tab order?
  109. rodneyrehm
    11:01
    ah, never mind, it’s not the section, it’s the fact that it is scrollable
  110. MichielBijl
    11:01
    Ah
  111. StommePoes
    11:01
    ah, yeah that is a ff thing
  112. rodneyrehm
    11:01
    yes, in the document’s sequential focus navigation order
  113. StommePoes
    11:01
    and frankly, they can please add that to other browsers thx
  114. rodneyrehm
    11:02
    something IS weird here, though, because scrollable containers are only focusable, not keyboard focusable
  115. StommePoes
    11:02
    they ought to be keyboard focusable, it's something I've done on some pages in FF is scroll them
  116. StommePoes
    11:02
    now I have to check
  117. rodneyrehm
    11:02
    ah, wait, that’s IE. firefox did not show any sign of that until 42
  118. rodneyrehm
    11:03
    (maybe my test is flawed…)
  119. StommePoes
    11:03
    yeah I remember the discussion on bugzilla, only reason I know why scrolly things were focusable, it was for keyboarders
  120. StommePoes
    11:03
    http://www.3playmedia.com/2015/05/01/jw-players-approach-to-video-player-accessibility/ for those who were still poking around about media players
  121. rodneyrehm
    11:07
    ok, my test does not identify the scrollable thing to be focusable in firefox
  122. rodneyrehm
    11:09
    that’s because I’m an inidot
  123. rodneyrehm
    11:10
    interesting enough it seems to be keyboard-focusable only. container does not get focus by mouse
  124. StommePoes
    11:15
    hm, most overflow containers, if you click on them and have a mouse wheel, moving the wheel scrolls within the overflow box.
  125. StommePoes
    11:15
    dunno if that counts as focus but to get out with the mouse you've got to click another part of the page
  126. rodneyrehm
    11:16
    focus is when the element is activeElement
  127. rodneyrehm
    11:16
    and no, hovering the scrollable container does not count as focus
  128. rodneyrehm
    11:17
    on mac the application doesn’t even have to have focus. simply hovering any window and scrolling works just fine
  129. StommePoes
    11:17
    I can't afford a mac, prolly never will. I'm not talking about hovering over an overflow container, I'm talking after you click in it. Then if you have a mouse wheel, scrolling it stays within the container until you click somewhere outside it.
  130. StommePoes
    11:18
    hovering seems to work on my applications, but I've not done it on a web page
  131. StommePoes
    11:19
    seems to work in chrome, the hovering thing. I've never done that before.
  132. StommePoes @StommePoes learned a new mouse trick\
  133. zakim-robot
    11:26
    [Katy Moe, a11y] Is this room supposed to be duplicating the bot traffic from @general ? I can’t work out what’s going on
  134. stevefaulkner
    11:34
    @RickSBrown can you turn off your pipe as its causing issues in https://web-a11y.slack.com/messages/a11y-devtools/
  135. stevefaulkner
    11:35
    No @kmoe ^^ @RickSBrown set up a pipe thats causing the issue
  136. sideshowbarker
    11:50
    (testing replace…) hey this is super
  137. sideshowbarker
    11:50
    good times
  138. sideshowbarker
    11:51
    gitter apparently supports doing, e.g., s/supper/super/ to correct typos in previous messages
  139. StommePoes
    12:06
    that's what the mail said
  140. StommePoes
    12:06
    but some of us use IRC where it never matters :P
  141. rodneyrehm
    12:10
    @StommePoes clicking on the scroll container does not focus it. it does, however, set the initial focus starting point (at least in firefox and IE)
  142. rodneyrehm
    12:14
    there is a second “focus” pointer (only hinted in the spec) that is consulted when shifting focus from <body>. Same thing happens when navigating to a fragment and then hitting the tab key (observe the different behavior of that in chrome and firefox - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Array/Reduce#Description)
  143. rodneyrehm
    12:15
    I’d assume the scroll-target-lock is based on the same principle
  144. StommePoes
    12:19
    @rodney it probably is... I remember that focus-pointer thing being the excuse why Chromium couldn't make skip links work in their browser, they didn't understand it or couldn't implement it or something.
  145. rodneyrehm
    12:23
    @StommePoes yeah, I filed a bug for that earlier this year: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=454172
  146. StommePoes
    12:24
    there is a much older one that's less specific
  147. StommePoes
    12:27
    I see you've been there
  148. RickSBrown
    12:40
    @stevefaulkner not my pipe, i just reported it. I think it was some fellow called "Same-o-maticBOT"
  149. StommePoes
    12:41
    Question for all of you: if a desktop application has ReadOnly form fields, and these are not by default focusable (for whatever reason, I do not know GTK at all), should developers add focus to these inputs?
  150. stevefaulkner
    12:41
    Ah thanks @RickSBrown so some rogue bot, will try to track down
  151. StommePoes
    12:41
    I am not talking about web forms though that would also be interesting, I've never changed anything about them.
  152. StommePoes
    12:43
    I can't even get my focus into readonly fields in applications, but realise maybe I'm supposed to be able to get to them to, for example, copy text.
  153. stevefaulkner
    12:59
    @kmoe @RickSBrown have tracked down the culprit, service should return to normal now :-)
  154. stevefaulkner
    12:59
    "unwitting culprit"
  155. RickSBrown
    13:02
    @stevefaulkner awesome, that was quick, thanks steve
  156. StommePoes
    13:03
    cloak and dagger
  157. StommePoes @StommePoes imagines SteveFaulkner as Tracer Bullet
  158. zakim-robot
    13:06
    [Thomas Logan, a11y] God help us when all the bots go rogue!
  159. StommePoes
    13:06
    skynet
  160. zakim-robot
    13:17
    [Katy Moe, a11y] great, thanks guys - hopefully this message won’t turn up in @a11y-devtools...
  161. StommePoes
    13:20
    Hm, even going through the web, I don't see any clear indication if application read-only fields should have focus or not. Lots of people say they should not receive focus, others say they should
  162. rodneyrehm
    13:20
    browser default behavior is readonly is focusable
  163. StommePoes
    13:21
    section 508 pages say the should be focusable but they mean HTML webforms and this is default anyway, so doesn't help.
  164. rodneyrehm
    13:22
    what do you mean by "application fields”? “regular desktop app”?
  165. StommePoes
    13:25
    I mean not-web: things you launch on your computer that don't use HTML.
  166. StommePoes
    13:25
    fields== form fields.
  167. StommePoes
    13:25
    The particular one I am talking about is written in GTK.
  168. rodneyrehm
    13:26
    quickly skimming through the programs I have open on my mac does not yield any disabled fields at all…
  169. StommePoes
    13:26
    Well, disabled seems more certain: everyone is saying those should never get the focus.
  170. rodneyrehm
    13:26
    ah, not true
  171. StommePoes
    13:27
    But readonly... apparently on the web, they should get focus, but if I make <input type=text readonly> it gets focus if I don't do anything dumb with it.
  172. rodneyrehm
    13:27
    Security & Privacy Settings (when locked) has a read-only list of checkboxes. they can be focused.
  173. StommePoes
    13:27
    I haven't found any place where people say disabled fields should receive focus.
  174. StommePoes
    13:27
    What application is that? If they are disabled, can you change them?
  175. rodneyrehm
    13:28
    disabled should not get focus, as disabled is inert. there are no click events to be dispatched for disabled elements either…
  176. StommePoes
    13:28
    Right.
  177. StommePoes
    13:29
    So there's a bit more information out there about disabled fields. There is very little about readonly fields, and what I do find is web-centric (HTML). People building non-web applications are saying, in various bug trackers I'm finding online, that these should not be focusable.
  178. rodneyrehm
    13:29
    it’s the "Security & Privacy” system settings panel of Mac OS X 10.10 - and I can navigate the list (i.e. focus the list items) but I can’t mutate them
  179. StommePoes
    13:29
    And the developers of our GTK application state that if they manually added focus to readonly fields, they stop being readonly. Not sure if that's true, but that's what they say.
  180. StommePoes
    13:30
    that sounds like readonly, really.
  181. StommePoes
    13:30
    You can't change them, but can focus on them.
  182. rodneyrehm
    13:30
    I have no clue what the GTK conventions are. Mac OS X seems to behave the way the web does.
  183. zakim-robot
    13:31
    [Thomas Logan, a11y] @StommePoes If a typical scenario for the application has people cutting and paste or somehow utilizing the information from the readonly field then I would say it needs to be focusable. The decision should follow from what people need to do with the application vs an absolute rule in my opinion.
  184. StommePoes
    13:31
    I'm trying to find GTK conventions, or any cross-OS desktop conventions, but while I find lists of object relations, I can't find anything about expected behaviour.
  185. StommePoes
    13:32
    Well, I'm trying to track down a bug, where Orca isn't able to read any readonly fields, however normally I should be able to read those anyway with flat review or mouse review
  186. StommePoes
    13:32
    but those aren't working, and might be that that's the problem.
  187. StommePoes
    13:33
    By default, the basic fields these guys build don't come with any focus events, which suggest to me that those are not expected.
  188. StommePoes
    13:34
    I did find a GTK bug though where readonly fields were not accessible to flat review, but I had to send an email to the bug reporter to ask for more information.
  189. zakim-robot
    16:17
    [heidi valles, a11y] hello. Q about mega menu from adobe. http://adobe-accessibility.github.io/Accessible-Mega-Menu/ - wondering why nav headings are not hidden when sub-navs are closed. Thoughts on if an always-perceivable mega-nav is helpful or annoying for AT users who navigate w headings?
  190. MichielBijl
    16:26
    @heidi that link results in a 404?
  191. zakim-robot
    16:31
    [heidi valles, a11y] Hmm, @michiel works ok for me. Refresh?
  192. zakim-robot
    16:32
    [dylanb, a11y] @heidi: those sub-menus are hidden with aria-hidden="true", so they don't show up in the list of headings
  193. zakim-robot
    16:32
    [dylanb, a11y] and cannot be navigated to using a SR
  194. zakim-robot
    16:40
    [heidi valles, a11y] @dylanb: thanks! I jumped the gun, using a heading list tool that doesn't pay attention to aria. sorry for the noise!
  195. zakim-robot
    16:41
    [Katy Moe, a11y] out of curiosity @heidi, what was the tool you’re using?
  196. zakim-robot
    16:43
    [heidi valles, a11y] HeadingsMap chrome plugin @katy
  197. zakim-robot
    16:43
    [heidi valles, a11y] Could you rec another that pays attention to ARIA?
  198. zakim-robot
    16:50
    [Katy Moe, a11y] I haven’t tested with heading list tools - I tend to test with VoiceOver if I want to check something quickly
  199. zakim-robot
    16:51
    [Katy Moe, a11y] but I’m interested in what tools are available
  200. zakim-robot
    16:52
    [ryandudek, a11y] If you aren’t using a Mac, you can check out Chrome Vox or NVDA
  201. zakim-robot
    16:52
    [ryandudek, a11y] Chrome Vox works on Mac as well, but I prefer Voice Over
  202. zakim-robot
    16:52
    [heidi valles, a11y] I test with VO usually too and thought this would be a quick solution - proved wrong!
  203. zakim-robot
    16:54
    [heidi valles, a11y] @katy perhaps we need to just learn the cmd for pulling up a headings list with VO?
  204. zakim-robot
    16:54
    [Katy Moe, a11y] pulls out handy cheat sheet
  205. zakim-robot
    16:54
    [dylanb, a11y] Ctrl-Option-U
  206. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [Katy Moe, a11y] that’s the web rotor, right?
  207. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [dylanb, a11y] yes
  208. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [dylanb, a11y] that brings up all lists
  209. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [Katy Moe, a11y] :thumbsup:
  210. zakim-robot
    16:55
    [dylanb, a11y] and you can use the left and right arrows to cycle through them
  211. zakim-robot
    16:56
    [dylanb, a11y] you might want to check out the options too because not everything is enabled by default
  212. zakim-robot
    16:56
    [dylanb, a11y] but heading are
  213. zakim-robot
    16:56
    [Katy Moe, a11y] yes, I’ve customised it a bit - I don’t want to deviate too much from default settings though, as I imagine the default settings are used by more users
  214. zakim-robot
    16:56
    [heidi valles, a11y] cheers @dylanb !
  215. zakim-robot
    18:28
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] For some reason, the rotor won't be summoned using Chrome
  216. zakim-robot
    18:28
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] It only apparates in Safari
  217. zakim-robot
    18:29
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @dylanb: I met John Foliot last weekend and learned you two are colleagues
  218. zakim-robot
    18:29
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] He's a wonderful guy, really passionate
  219. zakim-robot
    18:30
    [dylanb, a11y] @jessebeach: yes he is (both passionate and a colleague)
  220. zakim-robot
    18:32
    [heidi valles, a11y] @jessebeach: works ok for me in Chrome
  221. zakim-robot
    18:32
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] hmmm, maybe I've got an overriding key combo
  222. zakim-robot
    18:33
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] thanks for verifying @heidi !
  223. zakim-robot
    18:33
    [heidi valles, a11y] np!
  224. zakim-robot
    18:47
    [jitendra, a11y] Do we need nav role=“navigation"
  225. zakim-robot
    19:01
    [johnbhartley, a11y] i believe when <nav> is used, the browser assumes that the role is navigation
  226. zakim-robot
    19:06
    [jitendra, a11y] ok
  227. stevefaulkner
    19:29
    @jitendravyas <nav> is mapped to role=navigation in all browsers except IE
  228. zakim-robot
    19:31
    [jitendra, a11y] @stevef: So is it ok to use it for IE users?
  229. zakim-robot
    19:33
    [Katy Moe, a11y] @jessebeach: there’s a Chrome bug with the rotor - try using Canary
  230. zakim-robot
    19:36
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] +1
  231. zakim-robot
    19:58
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] Is anyone in the Bay area interested in participating in a technical meetup this month? I'd like to get together in a casual setting and talk shop.
  232. zakim-robot
    20:41
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] If I was there I would!! :wave:
  233. zakim-robot
    21:10
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @jessebeach: I'd be up for it
  234. dylanb
    21:25
    anyone here interested in a discount code for the IAAP conference http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/access2015
  235. zakim-robot
    21:59
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @marcysutton: maybe we can fly you down for the night!
  236. zakim-robot
    22:02
    [dylanb, a11y] I'm up for it, I'll fly in if need be :simple_smile:
  237. zakim-robot
    22:03
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @alice: I'm free Tuesday and Thursday nights. Maybe in two weeks? I'd come up to SF if we could crash at the Google offices :simple_smile:
  238. zakim-robot
    22:03
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] I'll see if Matt King wants to join as well
  239. zakim-robot
    22:04
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] We had a lively discussion at lunch about where to draw the line between the fields of accessibility and usability
  240. zakim-robot
    22:04
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] Might be fun to continue that and also talk about ARIA 1.1 topics he's specing out
  241. zakim-robot
    22:12
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] @jessebeach: is Matt on Twitter? I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye at Open Web Camp.
  242. zakim-robot
    22:21
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @jessebeach: I'm free Tuesdays and Thursdays too - though I'm typically in Mountain View on Tuesdays so I'm pretty wrecked by Tuesday evening
  243. zakim-robot
    22:21
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] (I still get on the bus at 6:45am)
  244. nschonni
    22:29
    @dylanb does the discount code include a free flight :smile:
  245. dylanb
    22:29
    unfortunately not - would be nice
  246. stevefaulkner
    22:31
    @jitendravyas it's OK to add as in it doesn't hurt, at same time am trying to discourage use of redundant roles on native elements to reduce cruft and cargo cult copy and paste coding issues, thus the SHOULD NOT requirement in http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/ and the resulting expression of warnings in @w3c HTML conformance checkers https://validator.w3.org/nu/
  247. feather @feather tries to be a bot
  248. feather
    22:44
    Looks like it worked. Now I'm more like @stevefaulkner and @dylanb :smile:
  249. zakim-robot
    23:22
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @alice: Thursday, 8/13?
  250. zakim-robot
    23:30
    [Jesse Beach, a11y] @marcysutton: he's @kinga11y