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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 2nd of September 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. powrsurg
    Sep 02 00:46
    I feel like the answer is already "no", but has any work at all been done for a11y stuff in relation to virtual reality web dev?
  2. powrsurg
    Sep 02 00:47
    I just saw Mozilla's video demo for what they're hoping to do with VR classrooms. I have absolutely no idea how that can be made accessible
  3. powrsurg
    Sep 02 00:49
    and a question for the room: any idea why when I reload this chat room in Firefox after I shut it down it goes back to @stevefaulkner making a comment to me from August 6th and then I need to click to the "go to bottom" button to catch up?
  4. zakim-robot
    04:25
    [jitendra, a11y] a good talk https://hasgeek.tv/metarefresh/2014/849-web-is-flux
  5. zakim-robot
    12:25
    [George Zamfir, a11y] "Hey, we’re doing our accessibility audit & tools writeup", curious to know where you land @kurafire :simple_smile:
  6. powrsurg
    14:21
    @jitendra good overall, but I think he is missing stuff if he thinks SEO is a fad ...
  7. zakim-robot
    14:22
    [jitendra, a11y] Could you explain in detail?
  8. zakim-robot
    14:26
    [jitendra, a11y] Why can’t we mention to those people which have “Bot” in front of their name?
  9. powrsurg
    14:28
    I'm just saying that it's a whole other industry. It's part of marketing. People are always going to want to market their website.
  10. zakim-robot
    14:29
    [jitendra, a11y] i didn’t get meaning of this "he is missing stuff if he thinks SEO is a fad "
  11. powrsurg
    14:30
    To me a fad is something that will fade over time. Like hair bands, or lots of websites using gradients and rounded corners a few years back.
  12. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [callumacrae, a11y] @jitendra: people with "Bot" by their name are on gitter or something, it's bridged using sameroom.io
  13. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [callumacrae, a11y] they're not actually here, which is why you can't mention them
  14. zakim-robot
    14:36
    [jitendra, a11y] @callumacrae: oh ok. it’s a cons
  15. zakim-robot
    14:46

    [jitendra, a11y] I think SEO is already fading… 2-3 years back it was a craze. Like making apps / being on the app store is today.

    If not fading, definitely being overshadowed.

  16. zakim-robot
    14:49
    [heidi valles, a11y] @powrsurg Interesting to think about virtual reality accessibility. I imagine a lot of video stuff would apply - captioning/audio description.
  17. powrsurg
    14:51
    Yeah, but it seems like we'd need new ways to apply them.
  18. powrsurg
    14:52
    It always feels like we get new features really fast, before we work out how we can actually make it easy for everyone
  19. zakim-robot
    15:10
    [Jon Metz, a11y] I thought SEO was called Knowledge now. Did it revert?
  20. powrsurg
    15:21
    since switching companies last Nov I haven't kept up with SEO as much, but checking Moz.com suggests it's still SEO
  21. zakim-robot
    15:44
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] I think it’s less about SEO “fading” and more about the novelty of it wearing off among people who pursue novelty to make money with.
  22. zakim-robot
    15:45
    [Faruk Ateş, a11y] george_zamfir: I hope to adapt this into a Medium post after we’re done with it, will definitely post it here!
  23. powrsurg
    16:39
    http://discourse.wicg.io/t/getusermedia-captions-accessibility/1095 am I being unreasonable with my requests here?
  24. zakim-robot
    16:40
    [Dave Rupert, a11y] Does anyone have a good example of an accessible Accordion To Full responsive pattern like http://codepen.io/bradfrost/full/dlwBD ?
  25. LjWatson
    16:55
    @powrsurg is the idea for an attribute that would automatically provide a caption upload mechanism, or an attribute that would capture audio and do some speech recognition auto-magic?
  26. powrsurg
    16:57
    The latter. I recognize that seems hard, but I don't think something being hard makes it unreasonable. Especially since most operating systems actually have a means to do it that they should (hopefully) be able to hook in to
  27. powrsurg
    16:58
    I mean, 6 years ago having browsers access the mic or camera was unreasonable too
  28. LjWatson
    16:58
    On the assumption that the platform could be used to capture the audio and perform the speech recognition, how/where do you see the conversion to time synchronised caption formats happening?
  29. LjWatson
    16:59
    And the caption format choice?
  30. LjWatson
    17:00
    If the attrib presented a shadow DOM UI, it could include an option to select the format perhaps. The list of available choices would need to come from somewhere though.
  31. powrsurg
    17:00
    WebVTT? for the tracking you mean?
  32. LjWatson
    17:00
    There would still need to be some mechanism for doing the time stamping/caption formatting though. That would probably be needed at the browser level.
  33. powrsurg
    17:00
    True
  34. powrsurg
    17:01
    Again, I don't think this is easy, but I think it should be possible.
  35. powrsurg
    17:01
    And it being possible will lead to more accessible features being built
  36. powrsurg
    17:01
    Maybe I'm just optimistic/hopeful
  37. LjWatson
    17:01
    It could default to Web VTT.
  38. LjWatson @LjWatson wondering if there is a use case for wanting other formats though?
  39. LjWatson
    17:02
    Might be worth pinging Google - they've already got a lot of this tech, so it may not be too much of a hop skip and a jump for them to suggest how much work would be involved in adding it to Chrome.
  40. LjWatson
    17:03
    Perhaps @Alice might be able to help?
  41. zakim-robot
    17:11
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] @davatron5000: have you tried this one by @monsika? http://codepen.io/mpiotrowicz/pen/gocmu
  42. zakim-robot
    17:13
    [Dave Rupert, a11y] Yeah, I guess stylistically the difference is the tab-control disappears and would just be a tube of content at some point.
  43. zakim-robot
    17:23
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] ahh, I see the difference. I actually like that better as a user.
  44. zakim-robot
    17:24
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Brad’s version has a bunch of ARIA in it, which probably isn’t necessary in the full version sine the tab concept has gone away
  45. zakim-robot
    17:26
    [Dave Rupert, a11y] Is the solution to use window.matchMedia() to build/destroy the ARIA depending on the viewport width?
  46. zakim-robot
    17:34
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] that sounds like a good solution to me!
  47. zakim-robot
    17:38
    [Dave Rupert, a11y] Ya’ll gonna make me code this up myself. I see how it is. **heads off to the CodePen mines**
  48. zakim-robot
    17:39
    [Dave Rupert, a11y] But seriously, thanks for the input.
  49. zakim-robot
    17:57
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] @davatron5000: I was tempted to do it, but I have some other work to do. If you want a code review let me know!
  50. zakim-robot
    18:23
    [Lindee Keller, a11y] Q: So, I'm trying to make use of The Paciello Group's aViewer as an accessibility inspector, but-- and this is silly, I know-- I can't figure out how to actually inspect webpages with it. I'm using Firefox. Is it supposed to work in tandem with another browser? Do I need to input the URL somewhere?
  51. powrsurg
    18:25
    BTW, isn't someone here from RIT? I assume so from them listed on teachingaccessibility.com
  52. garcialo
    18:29
    Lindee, it can be a bit confusing. What information are you hoping to get?
  53. zakim-robot
    18:31
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] I think the trick is to have both aViewer and your browser open, and click into aViewer to focus on the browser context. That should show results
  54. garcialo
    18:31
    Yeah, it also helps to turn on the highlighting and the little tooltip balloon thingy.
  55. zakim-robot
    18:32
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Very technical term :simple_smile:
  56. garcialo
    18:32
    It's the official term.
  57. garcialo
    18:32
    so legit.
  58. zakim-robot
    18:33
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Whooseeewhatsit
  59. garcialo
    18:33
    I dare you to find something in the aViewer user manual that contradicts my statement =p
  60. zakim-robot
    18:34
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] not sure if I explained how to show results properly…i sort of just clicked back and forth between the two applications and aViewer started showing content. but it wasn’t obvious at first
  61. zakim-robot
    18:36
    [Lindee Keller, a11y] Okay, I've got it basically working. Thanks, guys. Now to figure out why, even though all options are selected under the "Select Display" menu, only MSAA thingies are showing up under interface.
  62. zakim-robot
    18:37
    [Lindee Keller, a11y] And why balloons aren't popping up. Basically, it's ignoring my selected options.
  63. zakim-robot
    18:38
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] maybe try restarting it?
  64. garcialo
    18:38
    The TBT is good so you don't have to go back and forth from the site to aViewer
  65. zakim-robot
    18:39
    [Lindee Keller, a11y] Good idea, Marcy. I guess my other question would be, does anyone want to recommend an alternate accessibility inspector, or is this my best bet?
  66. garcialo
    18:40
    If only MSAA things are showing up, maybe the others aren't being used? I'm very not familiar with accessibility API stuff, so kind of just guessing here.
  67. garcialo
    18:40
    I think MS has one...googling
  68. zakim-robot
    18:42
    [Lindee Keller, a11y] ^Nah, I checked the source and what has ARIA attributes against my aViewer results, and there's definitely ARIA they're missing. Good thought, though.
  69. zakim-robot
    18:45
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] One option is to use chrome://accessibility to get a look at the accessibility tree
  70. zakim-robot
    18:45
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] But that isn’t the most popular browser for a11y obvs
  71. garcialo
    18:48
    Yeah, and the MS one only gives MSAA stuff...which I don't know why I expected it to do otherwise.
  72. jonathantneal
    18:50
    I have a question about aria and role attributes and how they might affect styling. For instance, would the default or common practice of [aria-controls] be to give it a pointer cursor?
  73. jonathantneal
    18:51
    I am asking for opinions - best practices - these don’t have to be declared in a spec, just the intent we see in common practice.
  74. zakim-robot
    18:52
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] You mean how you’d want them to affect styling with CSS? Because ARIA has no behavior in the browser
  75. zakim-robot
    18:54
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Your example for aria-controls makes sense, but like [aria-hidden] { visibility: hidden } is up to each developer to decide whether they want those defaults
  76. jonathantneal
    19:00
    Yes, I am looking for exactly those kinds of preferences. The best ways we have found to hint things in CSS based on their role, aria state, or aria property.
  77. jonathantneal
    19:05
    I put a similar pattern here: https://github.com/10up/sanitize.css/blob/2.0.0/sanitize.scss#L268-L278
  78. jonathantneal
    19:14
    If anyone has other patterns, I would very much like to review them.
  79. stevefaulkner
    21:29
    @lindee re AViewer I can help, am currently on hols and not at my PC so if you want, ping me Friday or next week
  80. stevefaulkner
    21:34
    @all if there is interest I could do a hangout sometime and run through using AViewer?
  81. zakim-robot
    21:37
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] That sounds amazing Steve!!
  82. garcialo
    21:52
    @stevefaulkner Make sure and tell everyone about the TBT
  83. zakim-robot
    22:14
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] TBT? doubt you mean throwback thursday since it’s Wednesday :smile:
  84. garcialo
    22:16
    It's already been established that TBT is the tooltip balloon thingy feature of aViewer.
  85. garcialo
    22:16
    I am appalled by you making light of such serious business.
  86. zakim-robot
    22:39
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] haha somehow I missed that brilliance
  87. garcialo
    22:44
    =)
  88. jonathantneal
    22:57
    What is AViewer?
  89. garcialo
    22:59
    http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/aviewer/
  90. zakim-robot
    23:18
    [som, a11y] tis thursday here
  91. zakim-robot
    23:46
    [dylanb, a11y] @som happy thursday from the past
  92. zakim-robot
    23:47
    [som, a11y] @dylanb the future is now
  93. jonathantneal
    23:48
    @garcialo is there something like AViewer for Chrome or even just via a JS bookmarklet?