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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 10th of September 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. aardrian
    04:14
    @bkardell @dylanb Wrote some notes about source order versus CSS layout on my blog-o-mat: http://rosel.li/090915 If you suddenly feel compelled to look, please let me know if I missed anything or cocked something up.
  2. zakim-robot
    14:15
    [Jordan Scales, a11y] are there any guidelines on differentiating links from ordinary text? not when focused or anything. is underlining the only option? a lot of folks remove the underline but visitors can still tell if something is a link or not
  3. zakim-robot
    14:35
    [dsturley, a11y] @jdan http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20150226/G183
  4. zakim-robot
    14:35
    [Jordan Scales, a11y] @dsturley perfect! thank you
  5. aardrian
    14:49
    @JordanScales Not the WCAG note (I would link that first too), but quick post on same: http://chipcullen.com/accessible-links-without-underlines/
  6. zakim-robot
    15:06
    [Jordan Scales, a11y] @aardrian - excellent, thanks!
  7. powrsurg
    16:45
    general question: How do major sites like Facebook, Twitter, etc. get away with not doing things link not have underlines for links throughout the majority of the site without getting hit with accessibility complaints?
  8. aardrian
    17:40
    @powrsurg Do they not have a11y complaints?
  9. zakim-robot
    18:17
    [Cordelia McGee-Tubb, a11y] @powrsurg twitter lets users customize the color of links. i think that’s how they get around using link underlines. they do underline on focus, though.
  10. powrsurg
    18:24
    Since when is doing a different color for links actually considered acceptable?
  11. aardrian
    18:36
    @powrsurg That's always been acceptable -- provided there is sufficient contrast with the background and surrounding text. If so, you can even skip underlines (which I don't recommend).
  12. aardrian
    18:38
    @powrsurg There are two URLs just above this thread that discuss best practices and WCAG conformance for link colors sans-underlines. I also ranted about why we should just keep underlines: http://adrianroselli.com/2014/03/i-dont-care-what-google-did-just-keep.html
  13. powrsurg
    18:49
    I've always been in the pro-underlines camp. That said, I don't think Facebook has a different colors for their links and they don't customize things ....
  14. aardrian
    18:52
    @powrsurg Using Opera on my tablet, I see that in the rare cases where there are links in blocks of text on Facebook, those links are NOT underlined and they are blue. They appear to have insufficient contrast.
  15. powrsurg
    18:53
    I've worked with designers that literally suggest that links should have the same exact color as text and have no underline
  16. aardrian
    18:57
    @powrsurg I don't like to advocate violence (in public), but you should consider a good firm slap.
  17. zakim-robot
    19:31
    [Cordelia McGee-Tubb, a11y] Would you rather… Have links that look exactly like all the other text on the page OR have spans with onClick events that look like links?
  18. zakim-robot
    19:34
    [dylanb, a11y] @cordelia: neither?
  19. powrsurg
    21:00
    @cordelia clearly you would want buttons that have had all styling removed
  20. powrsurg
    21:01
    how much of the removed underlines can be attributed to Eric Meyer's reset.css being copied by people that didn't read anything about it?
  21. zakim-robot
    21:20
    [Francis Storr, a11y] @cordelia: definitely neither.
  22. stevefaulkner
    21:25

    A11ySlackers chat log 9th September 2015 http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/2015/09/2015-09-09.html

  23. zakim-robot
    21:28
    [Francis Storr, a11y] I was just doing some usability testing with JAWS and FF (latest) and noticed that mailto links are announced as “[link text] has popup”, which was a little odd. It seems to be a function of JAWS.
  24. stevefaulkner
    21:37
    @fstorr i guess it makes sense since if you activate it you will get a mail app 'popping up'
  25. zakim-robot
    21:39
    [Francis Storr, a11y] @stevef: To a point. It really confused the blind user I was working with. You’d think (well, I would) that the mailto could be parsed and a different announcement made.
  26. powrsurg
    21:45
    "Screen reader users, click here to turn off Google Instant." - heh
  27. powrsurg
    21:45
    wasn't expecting that
  28. stevefaulkner
    21:51
    @fstorr had a look at acc API info, there is no popup property exposed for mailto: so must be some JAWS dark magic.
  29. stevefaulkner
    21:51
    @fstorr in Firefox/IE/Chrome at least
  30. zakim-robot
    21:54
    [Francis Storr, a11y] @stevef: this JAWS doc (Word: http://www.freedomscientific.com/Content/Documents/Other/JAWS-ARIA-Support.doc) says "aria-haspopup: JAWS announces this state for any control except buttons and combo boxes which pops up a menu”. Which might be the relevant thing.
  31. stevefaulkner
    21:55
    @fstorr tested this http://s.codepen.io/stevef/debug/PPPjwM? with JAWS 16 latest firefox, not getting the popup info
  32. stevefaulkner
    21:56
    @fstorr JAWS just identifies as sendmail link
  33. powrsurg
    21:57
    What do ZoomText or WindowEyes do (or should we not be focusing on those more now, despite the results of the latest survey. I'm not sure what the outcome of that ended up being)
  34. stevefaulkner
    22:00
    @powrsurg i don't know what they do need to test :-)
  35. powrsurg
    22:04
    fair enough :)
  36. zakim-robot
    22:11

    [Andrea Skeries, a11y] ZoomText has many options to enlarge everything and change colors on the screen. There are tools to make it easier for people with low vision to see where they are by providing larger cursors and bold styling for things that have keyboard focus. It also has a screen reader built in that can work a little differently than the rest. Using the "Speak It" tool, you highlight the text and it will read that.

    One bug I've ran into with it is when text is "hidden" on the page or text is temporarily hidden with show/hide triggers. The hidden text is still in the HTML and if you use "inspect element" browser tool you can see where it would be. If it is under other text that you try to highlight it could instead read the text that is hidden instead if it comes in the markup before what you're actually highlighting. It's hard to explain, but I do think you should test with it to catch these odd cases. You can get the free trial to experiment with it: http://www.aisquared.com/products/zoomtext/

    Window-Eyes screen reader is free of charge to people with a licensed version of Office 2010 or later so definitely worth testing as well.

  37. zakim-robot
    22:13
    [Francis Storr, a11y] @stevef: weird. Now I’m going to have to recreate that page and see if I can work out what’s triggering it. The link was in a table cell in a table that FF decided was layout not data.
  38. stevefaulkner
    22:15
    @fstorr if you do, please tell us results
  39. zakim-robot
    22:19
    [Francis Storr, a11y] @stevef: will do.