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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 30th of September 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. garcialo
    01:19
    Howdy
  2. MichielBijl
    07:48
    @powrsurg there is an equivalent: object-fit!
  3. MichielBijl
    07:49
    It's not very well supported, but it's there :)
  4. MichielBijl
    07:59
    Spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-images/#the-object-fit, MDN: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/object-fit
  5. MichielBijl
    08:18
    CanIUse: http://caniuse.com/#search=object-fit
  6. MichielBijl
    08:19
    71.74% global support
  7. zakim-robot
    12:02
    [Wilco Fiers, a11y] Argg! I keep having this argument with my colleagues. They keep telling me that that "Please fill in this field" and "Warning: This field is required" are insufficient as error messages.
  8. zakim-robot
    12:03
    [Wilco Fiers, a11y] Is it really that bad not to explicitly say someone did something wrong in an error message?
  9. rodneyrehm
    12:21
    I have a <form> that I XHR to the server. should I set aria-busy=“true” on the form while waiting for the XHR, or is something else required to inform the AT of “hold on, waiting for things to happen”. Should I set a natural language text along the lines of “processing form, please wait”, if so how?
  10. rodneyrehm
    12:24
    and if the XHR returned an error, how would I best convey that message fit for AT?
  11. zakim-robot
    12:51
    [dylanb, a11y] @wilco: you have entered the grey area of subjective interpretation of WCAG
  12. zakim-robot
    12:52
    [dylanb, a11y] @wilco: if there is no better message than can reasonably be given, it definitely IS ok to just do that (and set aria-invalid="true")
  13. zakim-robot
    12:58
    [Wilco Fiers, a11y] @dylanb: Haha, yeah I noticed the grey area part. I actually got a very solid counter argument against my position. A user may not be aware that the form wasn't submitted, when they see the same form a second time with the addition of friendly messages of what fields would be required. By being explicit about the fact that the action couldn't be completed there's a much better chance that the user won't just leave the page thinking everything went well.
  14. zakim-robot
    13:25
    [dylanb, a11y] @Everyone: there are a bunch of other exciting channels that I think are undersubscribed here, e.g. the events channel and the jobs channel. Check them out and ask for help if you don't know how to find them
  15. cryberg
    13:26
    @dylanb Apologies, I'm only recently getting into Slack and Gitter. How can I find those other channels?
  16. dylanb
    13:29
    @cryberg you unfortunately need to join the Slack directly for other channels, this channel only mirrors the general Slack channel. Join here http://web-a11y.herokuapp.com/
  17. zakim-robot
    13:29
    [Klara Schmitt, a11y] Thanks. Totally didn't realize there were other useful channels. :simple_smile:
  18. zakim-robot
    13:31
    [dylanb, a11y] @klara: do you see the channels in the left navigation of the UI?
  19. zakim-robot
    13:32
    [Klara Schmitt, a11y] @dylanb: Yes. I do. I just missed the +21 More...
  20. zakim-robot
    13:33
    [Klara Schmitt, a11y] I wasn't really looking, so I didn't pay attention.
  21. zakim-robot
    13:40
    [Claire Ryberg, a11y] @dylanb: Thanks for the tip!
  22. zakim-robot
    14:06
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Thx for the update @dylanb
  23. deborahgu
    14:17
    @dylanb, since that's the only channel that has IRC, and since the desktop and web slack clients are still very inaccessible, do you know if there'd be any consideration of enabling xmpp for the team?
  24. dylanb
    14:19
    @deborahgu since this is an a11y Slack, I think we would absolutely consider doing anything to improve overall accessibility.
  25. zakim-robot
    14:19
    [dylanb, a11y] @marcysutton: do you know what the implication is of xmpp and how we enable it?
  26. deborahgu
    14:20
    the instructions on how to enable it are at https://slack.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connecting-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP -- they say they have disabled it because by default because they want to be able to guarantee security and they can't do that with IRC or XMPP clients
  27. MichielBijl
    14:35
    @deborahgu you can ping @stevefaulkner if you want other channels linked (which we can easily do)
  28. MichielBijl
    14:35
    That way more people can enjoy more of a11y stuff
  29. deborahgu
    14:37
    cool, thanks @MichielBijl
  30. garcialo
    14:38
    After this one, we just need to say @stevefaulkner 's name one more time and he should show up.
  31. zakim-robot
    14:38
    [dylanb, a11y] beware of linking more channels - the gitter is very chatty and we would not want that ending up in all the channels...better to use XMPP
  32. zakim-robot
    18:36
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Where do I even start with all the a11y documentation on w3c? I have to put together a minimal list of some things and have a good idea but to study all the things for myself, where do I start?
  33. deborahgu
    18:38
    Chris DeMars, for what audience? What purpose?
  34. zakim-robot
    18:38
    [dylanb, a11y] @saltnburnem: don't study all that bull#$%@ dude!!! Just figure out whether users with disabilities can actually use your stuff man!!
  35. zakim-robot
    18:39
    [dylanb, a11y] wonders whether the irony will be appreciated
  36. zakim-robot
    18:40
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] It's half for my own knowledge and half for work so it has to have enough substance, know what I mean @dylanb ?
  37. zakim-robot
    18:41
    [dylanb, a11y] wonders whether the substance he just put in his pipe and smoked before writing the last message counts
  38. zakim-robot
    18:43
    [dylanb, a11y] @saltnburnem: don't mind my lame attempts at humor, @deborah_kaplan is on the right track here - what do you need to achieve?
  39. zakim-robot
    18:46
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Full 508 compliance.
  40. zakim-robot
    18:46
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] All users
  41. deborahgu
    18:47
    aimed at content creators, web developers, management, legal?
  42. deborahgu
    18:47
    and for what kind of website? Rich javascripty stuff?
  43. zakim-robot
    18:54
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Static content for now.
  44. zakim-robot
    18:55
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] A11Y for everyone, I don't understand how u can break down the targeted audience. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
  45. deborahgu
    18:56
    sorry, I don't mean who should have accessibility. I mean, who is the targeted audience of the minimal list? are you putting together something for people who write HTML? For people who create content, who may have no technical skills? For management or compliance or legal, so they have a sense of what the whole thing entails?
  46. deborahgu
    18:56
    There are different documents that serve those different purposes pretty well,
  47. deborahgu
    18:57
    and actually, there are some places that have already done a really good job of boiling down the various WCAG webpages for particular audiences/purposes, e.g.
  48. deborahgu
    18:58
    http://accessibility.psu.edu/blockers/
  49. deborahgu
    18:58
    or for that matter, even though it's a little bit out of date, http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/glance/
  50. zakim-robot
    19:06
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] The audience would be all u listed and specifically developers so they have documentation to use when developing. I'm stoked that I get to implement the a11y practices and guidelines at work.
  51. zakim-robot
    19:09
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] @dylanb I enabled it months ago, should still be on
  52. deborahgu
    19:09
    absolutely! Definitely good to be stoked about it!
  53. deborahgu
    19:09
    I would recommend focusing on developers, because they are very different audience from the other people, and then you can move on to later stuff for them, but look at those two links as a good starting point.
  54. deborahgu
    19:10
    @Marcy_Sutton you enabled xmpp? it's off now.
  55. zakim-robot
    19:10
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] I did…Ryan Florence and I created this channel. I’ll check again.
  56. zakim-robot
    19:11
    [Claire Ryberg, a11y] @saltnburnem: I also recently started looking into how to incorporate a11y practices in my code development. I found the w3c presentation of the information really overwhelming and hard to navigate at first. There is a tremendous amount to know.
    I found this article really helpful for breaking down what exists within the ARIA spec, at the very least.
    https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/04/html5-and-the-myth-of-wai-aria-redundance/
  57. zakim-robot
    19:13
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] Ahh..it was IRC that had been enabled, not XMPP. I have enabled both now.
  58. zakim-robot
    19:13
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Thx @cryberg . The W3C docs are super overwhelming
  59. deborahgu
    19:14
    thank you, Marcy!
  60. zakim-robot
    19:16
    [Claire Ryberg, a11y] @saltnburnem: another resource: https://www.marcozehe.de/web-accessibility-resources/
    I'm also trying to get up to speed on 508 compliant implementation, so if you find any good resources feel free to send them my way :simple_smile:
  61. zakim-robot
    19:16
    [Marcy Sutton, a11y] ^^ anything on @marcoz’s site would be a great read, such a good resource
  62. deborahgu
    19:17
    Marco and Paciello blog are good to have on your regular reading list. They are both low-volume.
  63. deborahgu
    19:17
    and webaim mailing list is great for specific questions.
  64. zakim-robot
    19:21
    [Chris DeMars, a11y] Thx