A11y Slacker archive 2015-10-06

zakim-robot

Oct 06 00:31

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] @kurafire @mattmay The 1.0 release is vastly improved over 0.5 in terms of accessibility - the team have put a process in place to make sure it actually happens, and they have fixed a lot of issues
zakim-robot

Oct 06 00:34

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] @alice: cheers! Do you work on it or know the people who do?
zakim-robot

Oct 06 00:35

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] I work near them and advise from time to time, but @laura_palmaro has done the legwork in terms of testing and process improvement
zakim-robot

Oct 06 00:44

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] Laura gave this talk with me at the recent Polymer Summit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6yLWihykVA
stevefaulkner

01:31

@alice you both look so wholesome :-)
zakim-robot

01:36

[Matt May, a11y] @alice I'm not necessarily saying anything about the Polymer team. Just that, as a consumer, there's no way to tell offhand if this or that component has done what's necessary. Which applies equally to every similar framework.
zakim-robot

01:38

[Matt May, a11y] It seems like most of the due diligence devs do when they implement this stuff is HEY NEAT I NEED THAT implements it stuff breaks that they don't pay attention to
zakim-robot

01:52

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] @mattmay oh yeah, that part is a... work in progress
zakim-robot

02:05

[Matt May, a11y] :smirk:
zakim-robot

02:14

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] @mattmay Are you able to point at frameworks/libraries which do this well?
zakim-robot

02:15

[Matt May, a11y] No. As far as I'm concerned, it's endemic to frameworks like this, where the principal value to the implementer is clever-looking HTML.
zakim-robot

02:16

[Matt May, a11y] (I mean, yeah, I'm overemphasizing, but when I think about the web teams I've worked with over the years, not by much.)
zakim-robot

02:16

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] Gotcha
MichielBijl

07:58

@Matt May: I think that is inherent to web development ;)
zakim-robot

10:31

[callumacrae, a11y] aww yes the design team saw my talk on accessibility and really liked it and want to do some accessibility stuff \o/
MichielBijl

11:37

Yay :D
stevefaulkner

14:05

may be of interest "aria-label, aria-labelledby and aria-describedby: very unforeseeable behaviour in screenreaders" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32951169/aria-label-aria-labelledby-and-aria-describedby-very-unforeseeable-behaviour-i/32971759#32971759
zakim-robot

15:27

[Greg Tarnoff, a11y] I’m proofing a pitch doc for a coworker and they have “WCAG 3.0”. I haven’t seen this before, but I thought I’d check in case I missed something.
garcialo

15:44

Looks like a typo to me. =)
zakim-robot

15:48

[Greg Tarnoff, a11y] Turns out they misheard AAA as being WCAG 3.0 somehow. All fixed. :simple_smile:
garcialo

15:57

Hah, I can see that. =)
garcialo

15:57

Triple WCAG!
garcialo

15:57

WCAAAG?
zakim-robot

15:57

[Greg Tarnoff, a11y] WCAAAAAAAAAAG!
MichielBijl

16:05

WCAG from the future
powrsurg

16:12

WCAG 3.0 now with 10% more awesome.
zakim-robot

17:18

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] > HEY NEAT I NEED THAT **implements it** **stuff breaks that they don't pay attention to**
Well this neatly sums up the state of web development over the past 10 years.
zakim-robot

17:20

[Matt May, a11y] :sob:
zakim-robot

17:22

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] Hey so I have a general question for keyboard navigation experts/users: would people who navigate by keyboard appreciate a "high level overview / in-depth level focus" approach for kb nav where basic tabbing goes through major sections of a screen ("Nav", "Heading", "Content", mostly useful for application UI and less content-focused sites), and you can "enter" a section by hitting [Enter] and/or a key closer to tab for convenience, and then you tab inside that section's navigable contents until you either 1) hit the end (and the next tab goes to the next section altogether, back in "high level overview" mode) or 2) you [Esc] out of it to go back up a level ?
zakim-robot

17:35

[George Zamfir, a11y] This is pretty much the best practice @kurafire. You get this behaviour on Facebook (try the messages / notifications menu) with the exception that tabbing to the bottom of the menu will loop back to the top. Which is also perfectly fine given that ESC works as advertised.
zakim-robot

17:36

[George Zamfir, a11y] Similarly microsoft.com does the same thing except they have 2 levels of subnav (the second opens on tab and can't close it) and ESC closes the whole thing. And unfortunately doesn't manage focus, i.e. moving it to a major section (store, products, etc.).
zakim-robot

17:37

[George Zamfir, a11y] >and you can "enter" a section by hitting [Enter] and/or a key closer to tab for convenience
slightly confused about this though; why not just use TAB for convenience after ENTER?
zakim-robot

18:09

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] @george_zamfir I don't get the impression what @kurafire described is "pretty much the best practice" - it's close, but I would expect best practice to only have one level of tab order, and use arrow keys for interacting with complex controls which form high level tab stops
zakim-robot

18:10

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] e.g. a navigation menu would be one top-level tab stop, and then you would be able to use arrow keys to interact with that
zakim-robot

18:11

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] It seems like what @kurafire is suggesting is a mechanism for "turning on" (and inversely turning off) lower-level tab stops
zakim-robot

18:11

[Alice Boxhall, a11y] IDK whether anyone's tried that...
zakim-robot

18:25

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] @george_zamfir: Tab for tabbing to a next segment, Enter for entering, and an optional key closer to Tab to enter as well, so that if you're only able to use one hand, you don't have to go from Tab all the way across the keyboard to Enter, and then all the way back to Tab
zakim-robot

18:25

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] Also, arrow keys would enter and loop internal to a "group" yeah
zakim-robot

18:26

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] (Like what @alice said)
zakim-robot

18:26

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] I don't see what I'm describing on microsoft.com at all
zakim-robot

18:27

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] admittedly it's very possible I'm not describing it clearly whatsoever :smile:
zakim-robot

18:29

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] I'm also not seeing it on Facebook, so clearly I'm not doing a good job explaining this
zakim-robot

18:29

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] I'll try and whip up an example visually
zakim-robot

18:36

[George Zamfir, a11y] Arrow keys navigation is indeed the WCAG recommendation but very much desktop app-like. Think Word.
zakim-robot

18:37

[George Zamfir, a11y] I generally find it overkill for most menus. Especially the fairly simple ones
zakim-robot

18:54

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] I'm exploring this idea for an application-focused UI framework since app UIs use a lot more menus and panels etc.
zakim-robot

18:54

[Faruk Ateş, a11y] where it becomes much more valuable if you can skip around the entire interface quickly
zakim-robot

20:02

[Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] @kurafire: Does the Firefox feature suggestion in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928#c59 sort of sound like what you have in mind? Of course, the markup has to have sections/navs/regions/landmarks (etc) in it, but the basic idea is to have F6 skip around top-level sections/landmarks. I was thinking that lower-level sections/landmarks could be navigated from an "Outline" panel. Anyhow, if the feature goes through, then you'd have "section-level" navigation built in to the browser (hopefully useful for both application UI and content/document-focused sites).\

Gitter Channel Archive 6th of October 2015