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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 20th of October 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:09
    [rodneyrehm, a11y] @alice said »Another option might be to hide the focus style on mouseenter« that is assuming that you’re not going to use the keyboard anymore simply because you happened to move the cursor onto the menu. imagine hitting enter - you see item C being highlighted, but enter is invoked on item A, which happens to have focus. (yes, contrived example, edge case, …)
  2. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:10
    [rodneyrehm, a11y] I guess my problem with this is: I use all the input modes my computer has to offer simoultaneously, not exclusively.
  3. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:10
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] @rodneyrehm: I don't think that's a deal breaker tbh
  4. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:10
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] I think that's a weird thing to do and for it to behave weirdly shouldn't be unexpected
  5. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:10
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] And it's very easy to recover from
  6. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:11
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Unless choosing the menu item does some irrevocable action, I guess
  7. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:12
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Basically that same argument goes any time you hide the focus state
  8. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:12
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] but I still think it's an overall win
  9. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:14
    [rodneyrehm, a11y] maybe I’ve stopped thinking about these situations since I stopped using :hover styles. something that can be interacted with gets cursor:pointer - all the style you need. by doing that, I haven’t seen any "double highlights” in a while.
  10. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:18
    [Cordelia McGee-Tubb, a11y] Alice, I tried your technique [show focus styles when keyboarding through menu, show hover styles instead of focus styles when mousing through menu] and it seems to work pretty well. It solves a problem I was having with menu items that don’t close the menu — when you click on them, they get keyboard focus and therefore show the focus style, so I was getting two highlights after clicking one of those items — one highlight for the clicked element (with focus) and one for the hovered item.
  11. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:19
    [Cordelia McGee-Tubb, a11y] Rodney’s right, there are some weird edge cases.
  12. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:23
    [rodneyrehm, a11y] ah, damn, 02:30, again. rushing off to bed. cya :simple_smile:
  13. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:50
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] @jdan: I like eleveny. Sounds like fleventy, in case you've seen Silicon Valley.
  14. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:51
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] @chandra: that'd be great!
  15. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:51
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] thanks!
  16. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:53
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] @jdan: http://www.bzarg.com/p/how-to-pronounce-hexadecimal/
  17. zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:55
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] sadly, a11y is not a hex value
  18. MichielBijl
    08:23
    @ckundo #131313 is
  19. MichielBijl
    08:23
    Which is if you replace the whole word with a number ;)
  20. MichielBijl
    08:24
    Yes, I'm suggesting we change #a11y to #13; fuck clarity.
  21. StommePoes
    08:28
    a13y?
  22. StommePoes
    08:28
    sounds hip... I don't have a fedora
  23. MichielBijl
    08:47
    No, just #13
  24. MichielBijl
    08:47
    You have the hippest shoes in the world
  25. zakim-robot
    09:50

    [Nick Colley, a11y] I've got a calendar with greyed out dates indicating since these are dates that I don't want the user to concern themselves with, however this is a contrast issue.

    Is it OK to ignore contrast in circumstances like this? Or is there a more appropriate way to deal with it.

  26. zakim-robot
    09:51
    [Nick Colley, a11y] Pasted image at 2015-10-20, 10:51 AM
  27. zakim-robot
    09:51
    [Nick Colley, a11y] Feel like maybe I should just increase the contrast since it might be helpful to know the surrounding dates but not sure yet.
  28. MichielBijl
    10:25
    @Nick Colley: “Text or images of text that are part of an inactive user interface component, that are pure decoration, that are not visible to anyone, or that are part of a picture that contains significant other visual content, have no contrast requirement.”
  29. MichielBijl
    10:25
    http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html
  30. MichielBijl
    10:25
    So per spec it would be okay to have them dimmed/have insufficient contrast.
  31. MichielBijl
    10:27
    But as you said it might be useful to “know where you are”.
  32. MichielBijl
    10:27
    That would really require some testing :)
  33. zakim-robot
    11:09
    [Nick Colley, a11y] We're doing some usability testing on Wednesday so I'll look out for issues. I think I can increase the somewhat contrast without compromising anything though so I'll try that first.
  34. zakim-robot
    11:09
    [Nick Colley, a11y] Thanks for your time @MichielBijl
  35. zakim-robot
    11:23
    [jitendra, a11y] I’m thinking to take a career break for 1 year. and improve my knowledge. I’m not able to find interesting job.
  36. MichielBijl
    11:23
    @Jitendra, just slack for a year and do research while you get paid ;)
  37. zakim-robot
    11:25
    [jitendra, a11y] working on something we don’t want demoralize us
  38. StommePoes
    11:52
    heh Gonz got interviewed (a11y podcast) http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/2/7/0/270b9718b4e873e1/accessible-technology.mp3?c_id=9997459&expiration=1445342979&hwt=0c72ca7ac8f8157fd4bcea5e3658c29a
  39. MichielBijl
    12:21
    @Jitendra: that is true.
  40. zakim-robot
    12:39
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] @nickcolley: would the calendar make sense if you removed the low contrast elements entirely?
  41. zakim-robot
    12:41
    [Cameron Cundiff, a11y] you hinted that they are useful contextual cues
  42. zakim-robot
    13:18
    [Nick Colley, a11y] @cameron: basically I'm only exposing dates that can be chosen, I did think about removing entirely but I think it is easier to recognise as a pattern when it looks more like a normal calendar.
  43. MichielBijl
    13:21
    Wouldn't it make more sense as a list?
  44. MichielBijl
    13:22
    “These are the dates available in november:”
  45. MichielBijl
    13:22 
    <ol>   <li><time timestampthingy="somecode">November 2nd</time></li>   ... </ol>
  46. zakim-robot
    13:23
    [Nick Colley, a11y] In my example above there's only a few dates which would work with a list but there could potentially be many many more.
  47. zakim-robot
    14:28
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] @bkardell: Hmmm, sorry about that. I need to read more carefully before replying. ;)
  48. zakim-robot
    14:29
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] What you describe would be lovely - perhaps even a business opportunity... ;)
  49. zakim-robot
    14:30
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] However, I haven't looked at Custom Elements much yet, and we don't have any in our product, because they're not fully supported (yet) in the browsers: http://caniuse.com/#search=custom%20elements
  50. zakim-robot
    14:30
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] support for just custom elements is easily pollyfilled
  51. zakim-robot
    14:30
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] Perhaps now is the time to start building up vanilla libraries of custom elements.
  52. zakim-robot
    14:31
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] Yes, I guess there's polyfills. Perhaps I just need to "get with the program" and build that ball field. ;)
  53. zakim-robot
    14:31
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] there are some libraries of elements
  54. zakim-robot
    14:32
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] I know @ljwatson was looking into vanilla custom elements
  55. zakim-robot
    14:33
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] http://component.kitchen/ were working on some as well, but apparently they shut down their catalog :disappointed:
  56. zakim-robot
    14:33
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Oh wait, derp, I can't read - they still have their vanilla elements https://github.com/basic-web-components/basic-web-components
  57. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] S'ok @alice - I can't read, either. ;)
  58. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] hehe
  59. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] But I'm going to go read the link you sent. :)
  60. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] No tree there though
  61. zakim-robot
    14:34
    [Carolyn MacLeod, a11y] rats
  62. zakim-robot
    14:36
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] mozilla brick is vanilla
  63. zakim-robot
    14:36
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] (now, not previously)
  64. zakim-robot
    14:37
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] but no tree there either
  65. zakim-robot
    14:38
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] https://github.com/basic-web-components/basic-web-components "If you're interested in creating a web component that others can use, why not take a shot at one of the general-purpose components below and help us complete the collection? ... Tree view. Visually renders a hierarchy of items as a tree whose branches can be expanded and collapsed."
  66. zakim-robot
    14:40
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] yeah I saw that too... I mean, I'm trying to avoid the question of "do I/we build one" at all costs but the answer seems inevitable :stuck_out_tongue:
  67. zakim-robot
    14:41
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] Oh I know :simple_smile:
  68. zakim-robot
    14:41
    [Alice Boxhall, a11y] I think you're right: it looks like nobody else has done the work yet
  69. MichielBijl
    15:25
    It's starting already
  70. MichielBijl
    15:28

    Developer one:
    “Oh that is a nice web component”
    “But it doesn't have that magic unicorn feature we need”
    “Okay, I'll try to hack it in there”

    • 5 minutes later *
      “Yeah, didn't work, don't know how this thing is made, so I guess we should just build it from scratch”
    • 3 months later *
      Developer two:
      “Oh that is a nice web component”
      “But it doesn't have…”

    Plug-ins; the saga continues!

  71. zakim-robot
    15:59
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] @michiel: sure some of that is bound to happen and it's not an entirely bad thing - evolution happens, as opposed to "let's debate about the meaning of and DOM APIs for elements in a standards body for a decade"
  72. zakim-robot
    16:01
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] @michiel: but -- 'a vanilla custom element for a tree control that is accessible and doesn't require a framework' doesn't feel very magical unicorny at all to me and if we can get collaboration in the community here we've got a real good chance of avoiding the worse excesses of the phases of the above which involve (typically) no consideration of a11y
  73. MichielBijl
    16:02
    Oh I agree, I'm just poking fun at web development
  74. zakim-robot
    16:03
    [Brian Kardell, a11y] there are some nice vanilla elements out there already, the fact that so many require x-tags or polymer (or even other frameworks) is kind of sad but inevitable in the same way that many java libraries are 'for spring mvc' and so on. it's the good and bad of layering.
  75. zakim-robot
    19:29
    [Allison Tarr, a11y] Hi everyone - is there best practices I should be keeping an eye out for re: carousels/sliders for a11y? Tabbing through all their content seems like a little much for me, but maybe not? Any thoughts appreciated; I'm new :thumbsup::skin-tone-4:
  76. zakim-robot
    19:30
    [Allison Tarr, a11y] (or if there's a more specific channel I should be directing this within, let me know)
  77. garcialo
    19:32
    This is a good place to ask that. Welcome. =)
  78. garcialo
    19:32
    So, for carousels...you'll want to implement controls. So users can pause/resume.
  79. garcialo
    19:33
    Make sure everything is keyboardable.
  80. garcialo
    19:33
    Make sure it sounds good with a screen reader.
  81. garcialo
    19:34
    Okay, that last one was a bit vague =p
  82. garcialo
    19:35
    Make sure you're hiding things when they go away and unhiding them properly when they're on the screen; not sure if it should be announced or not; that would get really annoying.
  83. zakim-robot
    19:37
    [Allison Tarr, a11y] Thank you! That gives me a few key points to start investigating. (Also, @garcialo: I enjoyed your talk at #allyTO this past weekend. It was really helpful.)
  84. garcialo
    19:37
    Thanks! =)
  85. garcialo
    19:38
    Where were you sitting?
  86. garcialo
    19:39
    Was worried the slides weren't viewable from the far side =p
  87. zakim-robot
    19:44
    [Allison Tarr, a11y] I was in the back left near where the video was situated, was fine for me!
  88. garcialo
    19:44
    Great. =)