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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 16th of December 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    02:18
    [blink183] How to create audio descriptions for video podcasts: http://youtu.be/1siUNBsR_Gg
  2. garcialo
    06:57
    Lead a discussion at my local meetup tonight about WCAG Exceptions. People seemed to really like it, so I think I'm going to be developing it into a talk. Was wondering if people here would be interested in having a similar Hangout discussion on the same topic sometime.
  3. MichielBijl
    07:11
    I would :)
  4. MichielBijl
    09:00
    Good morning slackers :cake:
  5. MichielBijl
    09:34
    Is it better to have a <a href="#"> or <button class="look-like-a-link"> if it does an action on the page.
  6. MichielBijl
    09:34
    I'd rather not do it at all, but if I had to choose, I'd say semantics come first.
  7. zakim-robot
    10:35
    [katy] I’d say mark it up semantically - if it doesn’t take you somewhere, it isn’t a link
  8. stevefaulkner
    10:38
    FYI after discussion role=search now allowed on <form> element w3c/html-aria#18
  9. MichielBijl
    10:41
    @Katy my thought exactly.
  10. zakim-robot
    11:57
    [stanislauzubovich] How guidelines looks at empty links with title attr? <a href="\#" title="super link"></a>
  11. MichielBijl
    12:10
    title attribute is not supported everywhere. Consensus is mostly: don't use.
  12. MichielBijl
    12:10
    What is wrong with <a href="#">Super link</a>?
  13. zakim-robot
    12:45
    [stanislauzubovich] thanks. nothing wrong, just legacy issues
  14. MichielBijl
    12:50
    More information on the title attribute: https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2013/01/using-the-html-title-attribute-updated/
  15. zakim-robot
    13:40
    [klara] I work on a single page application. Both the search results section and the main page reload content (without refreshing the page.) I feel aria-live is needed. However, I have a couple questions. 1) Can I have multiple aria-live regions on the same page? 2) Is it literally just adding aria-live=“polite” role=“status” or is there a hidden JS step? 3) Mozilla writes about aria-controls in one of the exact use cases we have. Anyone know anything further on whether I should use aria-controls? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/ARIA_Live_Regions
  16. zakim-robot
    13:41
    [katy] @klara: (1) yes you can
  17. zakim-robot
    13:41
    [katy] (2) you probably don’t need JS
  18. zakim-robot
    13:41
    [katy] the best way to develop with aria live regions is to test it out yourself :simple_smile:
  19. zakim-robot
    13:41
    [klara] Sweet! ‘Cause I suck at JS.
  20. zakim-robot
    13:42
    [klara] I have tried to test. VO didn’t seem to pick up what we had. So I thought I might be missing something.
  21. zakim-robot
    13:42
    [klara] But thank you very much @katy
  22. zakim-robot
    13:42
    [katy] no problem. do produce a little test case and post it here if you like
  23. zakim-robot
    13:42
    [katy] we can try to help you
  24. zakim-robot
    13:43
    [katy] (also you shouldn’t need both role and aria-live as the status role is implicitly live)
  25. zakim-robot
    13:43
    [klara] Okay. I was reading https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/03/screen-reader-support-aria-live-regions, which had suggested that.
  26. zakim-robot
    13:44
    [klara] I don’t want to use “assertive” because our stuff doesn’t warrant that IMO. So I was just trying to get broadest range for “polite."
  27. zakim-robot
    13:44
    [klara] But I will apply some things and do some testing.
  28. garcialo
    13:45
    @klara I would suggest checking out Patrick Fox's talk on SPA #a11y https://vimeo.com/117614181
  29. zakim-robot
    13:45
    [klara] Thanks @garcialo, I will do that!
  30. MichielBijl
    13:46
    FYI: Be aware that there is a significant delay in VoiceOver for live="polite".
  31. zakim-robot
    13:47
    [klara] I can also test NVDA on the VM, but I’m not sure even with keyboard mapping that NVDA works exactly right on my VM.
  32. zakim-robot
    13:48
    [klara] But thanks for the tips.
  33. MichielBijl
    13:49
    @klara, this might help with that: https://www.marcozehe.de/2015/06/07/how-to-map-your-macs-capslock-key-to-a-nvda-or-jaws-key-in-a-windows-virtual-machine/
  34. StommePoes
    18:12
    @MichielBijl could you give me a screenshot of Helvetica with quotes?
  35. StommePoes
    18:12
    I believe you had fancy magical unicorn quotes in your font-awesome repo, so I assume you type those?
  36. StommePoes
    18:13
    I'm trying to recommend Verdana to the devs but the quotes are confusable with prime marks (minutes, inches)
  37. StommePoes
    18:13
    so they'd nee dsomething else to use arounf those
  38. MichielBijl
    18:22
    In the train, I'll sent when I'm home.
  39. MichielBijl
    18:23
    While we're on that, I absolutely hate the quotes in the iOS system font. Who ever made those should be shot.
  40. MichielBijl
    18:23
    Well, not with a gun, but like a water pistol on a cold and windy day.
  41. StommePoes
    18:33
    what do those look like
  42. StommePoes
    18:34
    also, any particularly more-readable letters in helvetica neue (which i don't have) compared to verdana? I'm looking at Il, 0O, rnm, 1I etc
  43. MichielBijl
    18:51
    http://dir.agosto.nl/dump/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-16%20at%2019.50.41.png
  44. MichielBijl
    18:51
    Helvetica Neue on the left, Verdana on the right.
  45. MichielBijl
    18:52
    If you want anything else (characters) just fill in something like this: 
    <ul>     <li text="IlIl"></li>     <li text="IJL1"></li>     <li text="1I1I"></li>     <li text="“”"></li>     <li text="inch: ″"></li>   </ul>
  46. StommePoes
    18:52
    Looks like the quotes are the only winner for H
  47. StommePoes
    18:53
    Still thinking of recommending a mathy font for maths/chems
  48. MichielBijl
    18:53
    Verdana's quotes look an awfully lot like those in iOS.
  49. MichielBijl
    18:54
    San Fransisco is the system font btw.
  50. StommePoes
    18:58
    I have no idea what SF looks like
  51. MichielBijl
    18:59
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+san+francisco+font&iax=1&ia=images
  52. MichielBijl
    19:00
    Craptastic in everyway =)
  53. StommePoes
    19:00
    looks like the meijer logo
  54. MichielBijl
    19:02
    Anyway, promised myself a night offline, so, speak to you soon.
  55. StommePoes
    19:03
    enjoy
  56. StommePoes
    19:03
    !
  57. zakim-robot
    19:55
    [arhayward] hello desp :simple_smile:
  58. zakim-robot
    19:55
    [desp] hey arhayward :wave:
  59. zakim-robot
    20:18
    [cordelia] Do people have a preference for off-screen text vs. aria-label for icon buttons?
  60. garcialo
    20:18
    I prefer aria-label
  61. jnurthen
    21:45
    Me too. I don't like hidden text unless I really have to use it.
  62. garcialo
    21:46
    I've also heard there are also issues with VoiceOver on iOS with offscreen text
  63. zakim-robot
    22:01
    [marcysutton] There are! I was going to mention it, but it was years ago and I haven’t re-tested it. aria-label is pretty sweet, but has mixed support depending on the platform and what element you’re putting it on. Both have pros and cons
  64. zakim-robot
    22:07
    [marcysutton] Here’s where I wrote about offscreen spans and Voiceover back in 2013: http://marcysutton.com/mobile-web-accessibility-with-voiceover/
  65. MichielBijl
    22:09
    @cordelia: here is some research on icons and screen readers: https://github.com/MichielBijl/font-awesome/
  66. MichielBijl
    22:10
    That coincidentally has results for aria-label support in screen readers built-in ;)
  67. cptvitamin
    22:21
    hmm, i just conducted some simple offscreen text tests on Voiceover and had success. Perhaps it was a bug that has been resolved.
  68. cptvitamin
    22:22
    i only did span in a paragraph and span in a link.
  69. cptvitamin
    22:22
    nothing more advanced than that.
  70. cptvitamin
    22:22
    give me a second, I’ll test in button tool
  71. cptvitamin
    22:22
    too
  72. cptvitamin
    22:23
    offscreen text in a button element works as expected, too.
  73. cptvitamin
    22:36
    I want to that
  74. cptvitamin
    22:37
    I want to clarify that those tests were performed on iOS with VoiceOver.
  75. zakim-robot
    22:42
    [marcysutton] @cptvitamin that is awesome! The issue I ran into was mixing textContent with offscreen spans…Voiceover on iOS would choke on it and not read the entire text string. If the only text in the element is in a span (and not mixed), it’s probably fine.