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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 26th of December 2015

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    02:23
    [taion] what's the most generally accepted way right now for indicating that a given link is "active" and refers to the current page?
  2. zakim-robot
    02:24
    [taion] title="<whatever> (Current page)"? is aria-current something that can be currently used?
  3. garcialo
    02:32
    It should be sufficient to have appropriate link text for what the link goes to.
  4. zakim-robot
    02:41
    [taion] what do you mean?
  5. zakim-robot
    02:42
    [taion] the intention is that for non-SR users, the text of the link wouldn't change; just the styling
  6. zakim-robot
    02:42
    [taion] indicator of active page in a navbar or whatever
  7. garcialo
    02:45
    Oh, I see. I was thinking you meant a link that goes somewhere on the current page.
  8. garcialo
    02:50
    Are you thinking something similar to how aria-selected is used on a tab panel? http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#tabpanel
  9. zakim-robot
    02:51
    [taion] yes, if it were a tab, then i'd use aria-selected
  10. zakim-robot
    02:51
    [taion] but it's just a link in this case
  11. zakim-robot
    02:52
    [taion] my impression is that http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-current would be perfect if it were a thing
  12. garcialo
    02:54
    Yeah. Maybe just put a describedby in there?
  13. taion
    02:54
    ooh, a gitter
  14. garcialo
    02:54
    =)
  15. taion
    02:55
    how would i use that? wouldn't i need another element for the description?
  16. taion
    02:56
    the context here is for a generic link component for a front-end routing framework
  17. taion
    02:56
    i'd like to automatically handle indicating the "active" link in an accessible way for users of this library
  18. garcialo
    02:56
    Yeah, but I can't think if any other way other than putting additional information in the link text.
  19. garcialo
    02:57
    Ah
  20. taion
    02:57
    well, the current proposal is to use title
  21. garcialo
    03:00
    Not sure how good support for title is. Describedby seems more appropriate in my opinion. But if title works in the SR/browser combinations you want to support then that would be great.
  22. taion
    03:34
    yeah, but it doesn't work in that context
  23. taion
    03:34
    for a single component
  24. taion
    03:34
    just need to find a decent compromise for a library
  25. jonathantneal
    04:24
    Merry Christmas!
  26. stevefaulkner
    09:52
    @taion the most robust method to indicate to SR users is to include text in link <a href>link text <span class="context"> xxxxx</span></a> use CSS to hide offscreen if desired
  27. stevefaulkner
    09:53
    @jonathantneal šŸ––
  28. stevefaulkner
    09:56
    @taion oldie but goody by Gez Lemon
  29. stevefaulkner
    09:57
    Providing Context for Ambiguous Link Phrases https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2007/12/providing-context-for-ambiguous-link-phrases/
  30. MichielBijl
    12:32
    @taion http://www.michielbijl.nl/2014/09/23/the-current-page-conundrum/#main
  31. MichielBijl
    12:32
    Also see the link to Heydon's post in the opening paragraph.
  32. taion
    15:55
    @stevefaulkner @MichielBijl thanks!
  33. taion
    15:55
    i did read the heydonworks post, which is where i got the aria-current thing from
  34. taion
    16:00
    tricky... the sr-only text does seem like the clearest approach, but hard for me to implement nicely
  35. zakim-robot
    17:15
    [elliottcable] Hallo all!
  36. zakim-robot
    17:15
    [elliottcable] oh lord, setting up another Slack account ā€¦ let's do this.
  37. zakim-robot
    17:16
    [elliottcable] so: I've got some questions about alt-text on links; anybody around who's got a moment?
  38. MichielBijl @MichielBijl waves at elliottcable
  39. Lexicality
    17:27
    Hah, so I'm using IRC to view a gitter room which is forwarding Slack messages?
  40. MichielBijl
    17:28
    @Lexicality sounds about right ;)
  41. MichielBijl
    17:29
    @elliottcable it's usually best to just leave your question, more often than not someone will come by and answer it a bit later.
  42. Lexicality
    17:29
    Well that saves me from having to deal with yet another slack team. Excellent.
  43. MichielBijl
    17:35
    Thanks to sameroom.io for sponsering the tunnel making that possible =D
  44. MichielBijl
    17:36
    And Slack also sponsors the room we have on there (with history and all).
  45. Lexicality
    18:23
    Neat
  46. garcialo
    18:24
    And gitter makes lurking much easier
  47. Lexicality
    18:24
    Not as easy as IRC ;)
  48. garcialo
    18:25
    I'd say easier since you just need a URL
  49. MichielBijl
    18:25
    And you don't have to setup a thingy for when you're offline.
  50. Lexicality
    18:26
    Ah well, I use IRCCloud
  51. MichielBijl
    18:26
    Ah, that explains it =P
  52. Lexicality
    18:27
    Which makes lurking so easy I recently had to spend 20 minutes de-lurking and deleting about 40 rooms that I'd joined once just in case
  53. garcialo
    18:27
    Ah
  54. Lexicality
    18:28
    Incidentally, are there any useful posts/articles to give to people to convince them about accessability being a good idea and all that?
  55. MichielBijl
    18:28
    I'd consider using IRCCloud if I really needed it.
  56. MichielBijl
    18:29
    Seems like a great service.
  57. Lexicality
    18:29
    Most of my team seem to see accessability as a neat bonus but nothing to really work towards
  58. Lexicality
    18:29
    It becomes more useful the more you use it
  59. MichielBijl
    18:29
    You don't work toward it, you work away from it .
  60. Lexicality
    18:29
    (kinda)
  61. MichielBijl
    18:30
    <html></html> is pretty accessible, the more you add, the more you lose ;)
  62. Lexicality
    18:30
    This is true :p
  63. garcialo
    18:30
    I would check out @LjWatson's Design Like We Give a Damn
  64. MichielBijl
    18:31
    Yep
  65. Lexicality
    18:31
    I mean more that our product is itself not a particularly easy thing to make accessable as it is mostly densely packed numbers with visual context, so it will require effort to make it something that can be accessable
  66. MichielBijl
    18:31
    Or read up on these: http://www.michielbijl.nl/2015/12/26/interesting-accessibility-links/#main
  67. Lexicality
    18:33
    ta
  68. zakim-robot
    19:07
    [elliottcable] sameroom loosk interesting
  69. zakim-robot
    19:07
    [elliottcable] Which network is the IRC-version of the room on? Freenode, by any chance?
  70. Lexicality
    19:08
    http://irc.gitter.im
  71. zakim-robot
    19:08
    [elliottcable] lexicality: oh lord, yes, that. I've got probably upwards of a hundred collected IRC rooms nowadays. It used to be ā‰„140 across several networks when I was an IRC addict
  72. Lexicality
    19:09
    It's dangerous when you don't have a limited number of irssi hotswap windows ;)
  73. zakim-robot
    19:10
    [elliottcable] lexicality: limited? I don't recall irssi being window-limited. I'm pretty sure I have a screenshot somewhere with those 140 windows. or are we talking about different things?
  74. Lexicality
    19:11
    I seem to remember it getting inconvenient to work with > 10 windows but it's been years
  75. Lexicality
    19:12
    Didn't you have to give everything a name and then type that name to get to it?
  76. zakim-robot
    19:27
    [elliottcable] ugh. As always, sameroom seems to handle irc terribly.
  77. zakim-robot
    19:27
    [elliottcable] Why does every tool not built exclusively for IRC, seem to be built by people that have never used IRC? )=
  78. garcialo
    19:29
    @elliottcable did you still need assistance with the alt text thing?
  79. zakim-robot
    19:43
    [elliottcable] Oh! Sure, yes. I can't remember my other question, but here's one:
  80. zakim-robot
    19:43
    [elliottcable] what's the preferred phrasing for alt-text? I've sort of pointlessly learned-by-example to just fill the alt-text with an idle description of ā€˜what use the image isā€™
  81. zakim-robot
    19:44
    [elliottcable] but today it just sort of clicked that that's ā€¦ useless, that it needs to Convey The Same Information as the image does. Can any of y'all share some examples of truly excellent alt-text?
  82. zakim-robot
    19:44
    [elliottcable] also, I'm pretty pedantic, being a programmer ā€¦ so what's the appropriate grammar for alt-text? How is it read out, usually; should it be a sentence, or a fragment; is there a particular mode of speech or tense alts should be written in ā€¦ etc etc etc
  83. garcialo
    19:50
    Short and sweet. It can be longer if necessary.
  84. garcialo
    19:50
    The SR will announce that something is an image and then read the text
  85. garcialo
    19:52
    It will pay attention to the punctuation. If you have it too long (I forget exactly how long...maybe 150ish characters?), JAWS will interpret one image as two.
  86. zakim-robot
    19:54
    [elliottcable] example: badge on a GitHub README appearing as ā€œmaintained? | yes!ā€
  87. zakim-robot
    19:55
    [elliottcable] which of these is a better way to convey that: ā€œa badge indicating this project is actively maintainedā€ / ā€œthis project is actively maintainedā€ / ā€œmaintained: yesā€
  88. zakim-robot
    19:55
    [elliottcable] (that probably more succinctly describes my confusion.)
  89. garcialo
    19:57
    Probably that second one.
  90. zakim-robot
    19:57
    [elliottcable] nods
  91. garcialo
    19:58
    The first one would make sense if it needed to be clear that it was a badge and not some other widget. I think I know what you're talking about without needing to know it was a badge
  92. zakim-robot
    19:59
    [elliottcable] thank you!
  93. zakim-robot
    20:00
    [elliottcable] Are punctuation read or implied?
  94. zakim-robot
    20:00
    [elliottcable] Like, is ā€œMaintenance status: Unmaintainedā€ meaningful as opposed to the english-prose version?
  95. zakim-robot
    20:00
    [elliottcable] s/meaningful/communicative/
  96. garcialo
    20:02
    Oh. I just looked up the badges.
  97. garcialo
    20:02
    Looks like they're just text. Are they actually images?
  98. garcialo
    20:03
    If you have images of text it's pretty safe to just have the alt be the text
  99. garcialo
    20:04
    Just use punctuation like you normally would.
  100. garcialo
    20:05
    Just think of it as supplying text that will be displayed if the image isn't displayed for a visual user.
  101. garcialo
    20:06
    You could also consider styling it as if it was that case as well.
  102. zakim-robot
    20:09
    [elliottcable] you can style alt-text?
  103. zakim-robot
    20:09
    [elliottcable] O_O
  104. MichielBijl
    20:44
    I think @garcialo means that you can style an element to look like the image?
  105. MichielBijl
    20:44
    In any case, here are some handy tips on alt text: http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/
  106. stevefaulkner
    21:02
    @elliottcable Requirements for providing text to act as an alternative for images http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#alt may be helpful in understanding what alt texts to provide
  107. garcialo
    23:27
    @MichielBijl @elliottcable I think @garcialo meant to style the alt text. http://codepen.io/garcialo/pen/PZGdBj
  108. garcialo
    23:28
    Sorry for the delay; just got home from my parents'
  109. MichielBijl
    23:40
    Cool!