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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 7th of January 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    09:14
    [jitendra] please RT it https://twitter.com/jitendravyas/status/685026444557197312
  2. zakim-robot
    10:44
    [callumacrae] @jitendra: Wouldn't the problem also be solved by allowing longer tweets? https://twitter.com/jack/status/684496529621557248
  3. zakim-robot
    10:45
    [callumacrae] i just linked to the most inaccessible tweet in the world, which kind of supports your point
  4. zakim-robot
    10:45
    [jitendra] No.
  5. zakim-robot
    10:46
    [jitendra] Many times we do add images
  6. zakim-robot
    10:46
    [jitendra] to show photographs
  7. zakim-robot
    10:47
    [callumacrae] yeah but if you have more room for text, you can just add a description of the image as text in the tweet itself
  8. zakim-robot
    10:47
    [callumacrae] I see a few people do it already, but if the tweet already has text, then you need to move the alt text to a separate tweet because of the limit
  9. zakim-robot
    10:47
    [jitendra] then we should also have no need of using alt text in websites too
  10. zakim-robot
    10:49
    [jitendra] alt text associate the text with image
  11. zakim-robot
    10:50
    [jitendra] in twitter they are just going to increase character limit
  12. zakim-robot
    10:51
    [jitendra] wont allow to add images inline. AFAIK
  13. MichielBijl
    10:55
    I agree with Jitendra; Twitter needs to add alt text support.
  14. MichielBijl
    10:56
    If you describe the image in the text, that description is not linked to the text.
  15. MichielBijl
    10:56
    s/text./image.
  16. garcialo
    14:22
    Yeah, we only provide alt in the main text because there are no other options.
  17. garcialo
    14:23
    It should be something like "you're uploading an image? provide a text description of what's in the picture!" Then you wouldn't be creating visual noise with a giant wall of alt text.
  18. zakim-robot
    14:37
    [callumacrae] fair enough, I can agree with that :simple_smile:
  19. powrsurg
    14:39
    Is anyone here part of teachingaccessibility.com?
  20. powrsurg
    14:39
    I can't remember if I learned about that from this room, or from a twitter post from @stevefaulkner .
  21. powrsurg
    14:40
    We're doing co-ops with one of the schools listed on the site. Kinda disappointed that no one coming in has listed accessibility in their skill set, or from relevant course work. =/
  22. garcialo
    14:42
    How new is the initiative though? New enough for schools to have developed curricula around a11y?
  23. garcialo
    14:42
    Or rather, "Has it been long enough for..."
  24. zakim-robot
    14:49
    [jitendra] it happened today. Not everything in English though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlEamJs1n3s
  25. MichielBijl
    15:09
    Nice logo!
  26. dothedesign
    16:31
    Interesting tidbit, the WebAIM WAVE Firefox toolbar is no longer in existence. It wasn't giving the same results as the Chrome version over the last few months but I did like the ability to use the FF web developer tools to edit code, then run the WAVE tool, and it would validate without refreshing. I do not seem to get that same experience when using Chrome developer tools and WAVE.
  27. deborahgu
    16:48
    aw, poo. hey didn't announce that it was going away.
  28. deborahgu
    16:49
    s/hey/they
  29. garcialo
    16:50
    Well, there has been a bug in Firefox that's been preventing them from properly updating WAVE on Firefox.
  30. garcialo
    16:50
    https://twitter.com/jared_w_smith/status/618102593529614336
  31. deborahgu
    17:01
    that's pretty sad. Since a lot of us still can't use chrome for accessibility reasons.
  32. powrsurg
    17:06
    @garcialo Well, a lot of these people are talking about relevant course work. Was hoping that they would have had a course put together/someone having at least listed it as a "I want to put anything I can down even if I barely know it" thing that is typical for college kids
  33. powrsurg
    17:06
    Sorry for the late reply, just had 2 interviews
  34. powrsurg
    17:09
    In regards to the Firefox extension, I'd bet that Mozilla's validator takes too long to test things and times out and thus rejects things for them. I had that for my old Firefox extension that I get emails begging me to update. Yes, you can host it elsewhere but really, if it's not hosted by Mozilla it's unlikely to be found.
  35. powrsurg
    17:09
    Couple that with the discontinuation of XUL-based extensions that's probably another reason for it to be dropped.
  36. garcialo
    18:14
    @powrsurg Stupid having to do our jobs and not letting us just chat all day.
  37. powrsurg
    18:14
    Exactly!
  38. MichielBijl
    18:16
    Jobs?
  39. garcialo
    18:17
    @MichielBijl You're slacking in your ignoring of duties and always being in chat.
  40. MichielBijl
    18:17
    Pff, I haven't worked in years; I just show up at some place every day and talk to some friends.
  41. MichielBijl
    18:17
    Damn straight =P
  42. powrsurg
    18:20
    Of course, between doing interviews and this guy walking by my work day has been shot
  43. powrsurg
    18:20
    https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/e35/12519276_941322765949629_2094930984_n.jpg
  44. garcialo
    18:21
    He was shot? Like with a gun?
  45. garcialo
    18:21
    Oh wait, with a camera. =p
  46. MichielBijl
    18:23
    alt=man on the sidewalk with a wooden cross on his back with a little wheel on the bottom.
  47. MichielBijl
    18:28
    @garcialo if you're all hard at work, why is this channel called a11ySLACKers?
  48. MichielBijl
    18:29
    I'm guessing “a11ySlackers (except Luis, he's a a11yHardAtWork)” is too long
  49. powrsurg
    18:33
    I thought there was a calling out/shaming thing to it
  50. MichielBijl
    18:36
    I think it's because we transferred here from Slack
  51. MichielBijl
    18:50
    And because @stevefaulkner is a steely-eyed #a11y guy.
  52. powrsurg
    18:54
    I know some people that don't know details about the room felt like people were being called slackers if they don't have things perfect, even if they're working on it (or at least that's the impression I got from MS people)
  53. jnurthen
    18:55
    hmmm - we should fix that then
  54. MichielBijl
    18:56
    slacker |ˈslakə|
    noun informal
    a person who avoids work or effort. the slackers who let the side down by their want of team spirit.
    • US a person who evades military service.
    • chiefly N. Amer. a young person (especially in the 1990s) of a subculture characterized by apathy and aimlessness. they are portrayed as dreamy, disenfranchised slackers. [ as modifier ] : slacker culture.
  55. MichielBijl
    18:56
    Who says that's not us?
  56. garcialo
    18:59
    So, if people are getting the impression that a11ySlackers means people are slackers for not considering a11y, I think it should be changed.
  57. jnurthen
    19:00
    I'm sure my management wouldn't be so happy about me spending time here either - partly due to its name
  58. jnurthen
    19:00
    Changing the name would certainly make it more corporate friendly
  59. powrsurg
    19:01
    See, I explained to my boss that we needed to improve accessibility stuff (which he understood), so going straight to a group focused on improving things where we could ask questions and the like would be a good thing. I haven't gotten in trouble for it and I think he's pretty fine with it
  60. powrsurg
    19:02
    I'm starting to do the same thing with the Open Badges initiative ... they're doing a terrible job with being open about what to do and how to implement
  61. MichielBijl
    19:05
    I don't mind the name. And it has a W3C logo in front of it. If that doesn't indicate official I don't know what will.
  62. MichielBijl
    19:06
    And if we change it: a11yStackers?
  63. MichielBijl
    19:07
    A stacker is a large machine used in bulk material handling. Its function is to pile bulk material such as limestone, ores and cereals on to a stockpile
  64. MichielBijl
    19:07
    Pile that a11y!
  65. jnurthen
    19:09
    LOL
  66. powrsurg
    19:09
    It's too bad a11yWins is something else. That'd be a better name for what this room hopes to achieve
  67. MichielBijl
    19:11
    You mean Marcy's tumbler?
  68. jnurthen
    19:12
    on another note has anyone ever looked at MSFT Live Tiles accessibility?
  69. jnurthen
    19:13
    I'm trying to do something similar where there are tiles which can either contain content (which can be interacted with directly) or can be a "button/link" to move to another screen
  70. garcialo
    19:13
    a11yWins doesn't properly describe this room though
  71. jnurthen
    19:13
    I'm wondering how to mix and match these and what role to put on the live tiles
  72. MichielBijl
    19:13
    Agreed.
  73. MichielBijl
    19:13
    @jnurthen hmm.
  74. MichielBijl @MichielBijl was going to type something clever…
  75. zakim-robot
    19:14
    [gregtarnoff] Hmm…Voiceover is reading li twice. Once then it says ‘group’ and reads it again. I haven’t seen this before, is it normal and I just never noticed?
  76. MichielBijl
    19:14
    What is the context?
  77. jnurthen
    19:14
    @MichielBijl question to me?
  78. MichielBijl
    19:14
    @gregtarnoff I've never noticed that. Do you have an example?
  79. MichielBijl
    19:14
    @jnurthen yes.
  80. jnurthen
    19:15
    it is kind of the home screen in an application suite
  81. MichielBijl
    19:15
    Is it like on WP home screen thing?
  82. MichielBijl
    19:15
    Ah
  83. jnurthen
    19:15
    some of the "tiles" move to different functions
  84. jnurthen
    19:15
    some display information (could be a chart of the highest earners in your group)
  85. MichielBijl
    19:15
    Surely those are just different sections?
  86. jnurthen
    19:15
    some allow you to quickly approve and expense report (for example) without having to drill into the details
  87. MichielBijl
    19:16
    Some sections just have one giant button/link/thing
  88. jnurthen
    19:16
    yeah - think of it being like a dashboard but most of the sections are simply links to other functions, but some contain other infor
  89. zakim-robot
    19:16
    [gregtarnoff] @michielBijl: http://scotlandjs.com/cfp/
  90. jnurthen
    19:16
    yeah - most are a giant button
  91. zakim-robot
    19:16
    [gregtarnoff] This is the actual page I’m working on. Helping them improve the accessibility.
  92. jnurthen
    19:17
    @gregtarnoff VO on OSX or iOS (or both?)
  93. zakim-robot
    19:17
    [gregtarnoff] OSX.
  94. jnurthen
    19:17
    don't have a mac here to look at it at the moment - sorry
  95. zakim-robot
    19:18
    [gregtarnoff] Haven’t even looked at mobile yet. There are a bunch of improvements needed before worth trying. Almost done, but that’s the only goofy thing.
  96. MichielBijl
    19:18
    Hmm, is it the list in the main cotnent?
  97. zakim-robot
    19:18
    [gregtarnoff] Yup.
  98. MichielBijl
    19:18
    I'm not hearing it twice on OS X 10.10
  99. MichielBijl
    19:18
    In either Chrome or Safari
  100. MichielBijl
    19:19
    How do you navigate to it? VO+arrow keys?
  101. jnurthen
    19:19
    i don't see anything wrong with the list markup though
  102. jnurthen
    19:19
    so I wouldn't worry about it.... if it is doing that I don't see how you could fix it
  103. jnurthen
    19:20
    btw. @MichielBijl are you going to CSUN?
  104. MichielBijl
    19:20
    If you're paying =P
  105. zakim-robot
    19:20
    [gregtarnoff] Chrome, El Cap letting VO read the page. Yeah, since the code is right I’m not sweating it, but damnit if I hate redundancy.
  106. jnurthen
    19:21
    @MichielBijl LOL
  107. jnurthen
    19:23
    I just registered and I wondered who else is going to be there this year.
  108. zakim-robot
    19:24
    [gregtarnoff] wishes they could go.
  109. MichielBijl
    19:24
    @gregtarnoff, I'm not getting that here on 10.10 with VO+A
  110. zakim-robot
    19:25
    [gregtarnoff] Ok. I’m not going to sweat it then.
  111. MichielBijl
    19:25
    @jnurthen I know @StommePoes is going. And all the TPG'ers.
  112. MichielBijl
    19:25
    I'm not either one of those, so =(
  113. MichielBijl
    19:26
    I would go if I could afford it. But it's just too expensive to get there and back again.
  114. jnurthen
    19:28
    yeah - its a long way
  115. jnurthen
    19:29
    (not for me but for you Europeans :) )
  116. MichielBijl
    19:32
    Plane ticket is as expensive as the conference ticket 🙈
  117. MichielBijl
    19:33
    Maybe next year! Because I definitely want to go.
  118. MichielBijl
    19:33
    It's just that I'm saving for my move to Denmark and can't shell out 2.000 euro for a conference right now.
  119. garcialo
    19:34
    Dude, it's easy. Just 1) get a job at an a11y company 2) have them send you 3) ??? 4 ) profit
  120. MichielBijl
    19:35
    Hell, I'm struggling to get enough money together for CSS Day in June… Which I have to attend, because, you know, @LjWatson is giving a talk :P
  121. MichielBijl
    19:35
    @garcialo that's easier said than done though.
  122. MichielBijl
    19:35
    But, eeeh, I'm working on it!
  123. garcialo
    19:36
    Start a GoFundMe
  124. MichielBijl
    19:36
    That wouldn't really feel right.
  125. MichielBijl @MichielBijl sells his liver
  126. MichielBijl
    19:37
    Now I don't feel so great either, but hey
  127. MichielBijl
    19:37
    Oh, wait, you can't sell that stuff.
  128. garcialo
    19:37
    Don't forget the kidneys. You didn't evolve into having two of them for nothing.
  129. MichielBijl
    19:37
    It's illegal to sell those here =(
  130. jnurthen
    19:38
    how about barter :)
  131. garcialo
    19:38
    There you go; barter!
  132. MichielBijl
    19:39
    Okay, I give you guys some Dutch hagelslag in exchange for a ticket =P
  133. MichielBijl
    19:46
    I wouldn't know what to offer…
  134. MichielBijl @MichielBijl will just have to find a way into @StommePoes' luggage and survive the 7 hour flight…
  135. zakim-robot
    19:49
    [karlgroves] We have our own sprinkles! Bring stroopwafels!
  136. MichielBijl
    19:49
    Hah, in exchange for a place to sleep =P
  137. zakim-robot
    19:50
    [karlgroves] In that case, bring some other things that are difficult to get in the US but easier in NL. Perhaps some sort of “brownies"
  138. zakim-robot
    19:51
    [karlgroves] And a bike!
  139. MichielBijl
    19:52
    Hmm. I'd have to get some airlock baggies for those.
  140. MichielBijl
    19:52
    What sort of bike did you have in mind?
  141. jnurthen
    19:52
    You think it is only 7 hours to San Diego?
  142. zakim-robot
    19:53

    [karlgroves] I was kidding. No bike. Brownies

    7 hours to SD? For me.

  143. MichielBijl
    19:53
    I'm guessing, no…
  144. jnurthen
    19:53
    if you could fly direct it would be 12 hours for you
  145. jnurthen
    19:53
    but I'm guessing no direct flights to SAN from AMS
  146. jnurthen
    19:54
    only 90 mins for me :)
  147. zakim-robot
    19:54
    [karlgroves] Yeah that probably entails a layover in Newark, Philly, or Charlseton
  148. jnurthen
    19:54
    or LHR
  149. MichielBijl
    19:55
    29 hours on the cheapest ticket :')
  150. jnurthen
    19:55
    LOL
  151. jnurthen
    19:55
    at least it would be good value in cost/hour :)
  152. MichielBijl
    19:55
    ±15 hours is the quickest
  153. MichielBijl
    19:55
    Haha
  154. MichielBijl
    19:55
    Quickest is via London
  155. jnurthen
    19:56
    last time i went to india it was 32 hours (w/ 24 hours of actual flight time) - that was hell
  156. MichielBijl
    19:57
    I can believe that
  157. jnurthen
    19:58
    especially as I'm not senior enough to travel anywhere but the back of the plane :(
  158. zakim-robot
    19:59
    [karlgroves] Never. Going. To. Go. There.
    I’m good with flying. I’m on planes about 30x a year, but I think 12 hours continuous is my max before I go crazy
  159. MichielBijl
    20:00
    Doing it barefoot helps me.
  160. jnurthen
    20:00
    barefoot on planes - ugh
  161. jnurthen
    20:01
    now - plane socks I am all in favour of
  162. MichielBijl
    20:01
    I did my last trip to London entirely barefoot…
  163. zakim-robot
    20:01
    [karlgroves] :facepalm:
  164. MichielBijl
    20:02
    But that was during the summer.
  165. zakim-robot
    20:02
    [karlgroves] HAHAHA you’re lying
  166. zakim-robot
    20:02
    [karlgroves] :troll:
  167. MichielBijl
    20:02
    Just ask @fantasai or @kingstontime ;)
  168. MichielBijl
    20:05
    It was only when I met with Chris H. that I put on shoes; wasn't going to go barefoot into a London pub…
  169. jnurthen
    20:05
    but you will go into an airplane bathroom?
  170. MichielBijl
    20:06
    That was a 75 minute flight, I can hold it for that long
  171. MichielBijl
    20:07
    And besides, it's feet, not like walking on my lips or something :P
  172. garcialo
    20:08
    Seems like y'all are slacking when it comes to discussing a11y
  173. jnurthen
    20:09
    I thought we should based on the room title - although with the time it is for @MichielBijl he isn't really slacking. I am though - but I was on a conference call for some of it.....
  174. MichielBijl
    20:09
    We're talking how to get to CSUN
  175. MichielBijl
    20:09
    It's 21:09 here
  176. garcialo
    20:10
    so you going to go to an airplane bathroom while walking on your lips is talking about CSUN?
  177. garcialo
    20:10
    I see
  178. MichielBijl
    20:10
    But looking at my a11y todo list; I am slacking…
  179. MichielBijl
    20:11
    You have to keep an open mind Luis
  180. MichielBijl
    20:11
    Oh crap, I totally forgot the ARIA call 😱
  181. jnurthen
    20:11
    I think there wasn't one
  182. MichielBijl
    20:11
    Seems I really was slacking
  183. jnurthen
    20:11
    .... or I forgot it too
  184. MichielBijl
    20:11
    Oh right, first one is the 14th
  185. MichielBijl
    20:11
    Phew
  186. MichielBijl
    20:12

    The first WAI-ARIA working group call of 2016 will be on January 14.

    Best,
    Rich

  187. jnurthen
    20:15
    off for lunch
  188. zakim-robot
    21:29
    [alice] haha just catching up on the flights conversation
  189. zakim-robot
    21:30
    [alice] Australians find Europeans' and Americans' notions of flying hilarious
  190. garcialo
    21:52
    How do Australians fly?
  191. jnurthen
    22:01
    @garcialo I'm waiting for the punchline
  192. garcialo
    22:05
    Perhaps I should have tagged @alice
  193. jnurthen
    22:17
    how do you tag someone in slack?
  194. zakim-robot
    22:20
    [alice] he just did it
  195. zakim-robot
    22:20
    [alice] We fly, primarily, really really far
  196. garcialo
    22:20
    Maybe if you just moved closer to everyone.
  197. zakim-robot
    22:21
    [alice] yeah, idk why we haven't done that already
  198. jnurthen
    22:21
    surely you only fly far when you go other places :)
  199. MichielBijl
    22:21
    Hah
  200. zakim-robot
    22:21
    [alice] yeah, unlike Americans we like to travel outside our own country
  201. zakim-robot
    22:21
    [alice] (also unlike Americans there are only ~23m people in our country)
  202. zakim-robot
    22:22
    [alice] but e.g. to get to Europe is a 24h flight easily
  203. zakim-robot
    22:22
    [alice] so you just kinda get used to flying long distances :simple_smile:
  204. jnurthen
    22:22
    it is still hell :)
  205. garcialo
    22:22
    I need to go to Europe at some point
  206. zakim-robot
    22:22
    [alice] cause it's that or ... New Zealand
  207. jnurthen
    22:23
    or asia :)
  208. zakim-robot
    22:23
    [alice] and nothing against NZ but there's only so much of it
  209. MichielBijl
    22:23
    @garcialo give a shout if you do
  210. garcialo
    22:23
    I hear New Zeaand is pretty.
  211. zakim-robot
    22:23
    [alice] it is :simple_smile:
  212. garcialo
    22:23
    @MichielBijl I'll be easy to find, I'll be sleeping on @stevefaulkner's couch.
  213. MichielBijl
    22:23
    Dude, that's like 3 hours from here…
  214. garcialo
    22:24
    Better get walking then
  215. MichielBijl
    22:24
    I'm not jesus, I can't walk over the channel
  216. jnurthen
    22:24
    i'm very used to the 11 hour flights when I have to go to Europe to see the family but 24 hours is not fun. @alice nobody enjoys that surely
  217. jnurthen
    22:25
    and 11 hours with kids is equivalent to 24 hours on your own anyway :)
  218. garcialo
    22:26
    I prefer to be a parent vicariously through other peoples' walls on Facebook
  219. stevefaulkner
    22:26
    Surprised that people find the room name problematic, but it is what it is could change to something more upbeat like #a11yISIS
  220. jnurthen
    22:26
    actually I can't complain too much - my kids are good travellers.
  221. garcialo
    22:27
    @stevefaulkner :+1:
  222. jnurthen
    22:27
    go for it Steve
  223. MichielBijl
    22:38
    Are there any people that actually have a problem with the name?
  224. MichielBijl
    22:39
    It's just a name…
  225. jnurthen
    22:42
    seems too late to change it - but @powrsurg said that it put some people off chatting here.
  226. zakim-robot
    22:42
    [alice] @jnurthen Nah, it's not enjoyable. You just get used to it.
  227. jnurthen
    22:48
    anyone got anything with best practices for Articulate?
  228. MichielBijl
    23:03
    Haha: https://twitter.com/stommepoes/status/685235218928762880
  229. zakim-robot
    23:07
    [techthomas] @stevefaulkner ISIS scares me though :goberserk:
  230. stevefaulkner
    23:08
    Yeah that's the effect they are trying for I guess