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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 14th of January 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. alexlande
    Jan 14 00:15
    nice! I've done it in the past by recording my screen and taking a screenshot of that, which is pretty goofy
  2. cr2a-graphique
    10:35
    hi there,
    i test a web site with NVDA (vocal transmition) i don't know why bootstrap tooltip are randomly transcribed, one time they transcribed good the tooltip (link + ariadescribedby), other time they just transcribed only the link
    Any idea ?
  3. cr2a-graphique
    10:43
    hi there,
    bootstrapgtrandomly transcribed tooltip
    Test can be apply on bootstrap website -> tooltip chapter
  4. MichielBijl
    10:45
    Do you have a code example?
  5. cr2a-graphique
    10:50
    Test can be apply on bootstrap website -> tooltip chapter here : http://getbootstrap.com/javascript/#tooltips-examples
    try to focus many time & the transcribe never the same
  6. cr2a-graphique
    10:51
    can i wrote code here in chat panel ?
  7. jkva
    10:51
    That, using markdown (backticks for code) or use pastebin or github gist
  8. MichielBijl
    10:51
    Yes, if you use markdown's ticks: ```` (you need three before and after)
  9. MichielBijl
    10:51
    But an actual code example would be more helpful.
  10. MichielBijl
    10:52
    What @jkva said
  11. cr2a-graphique
    10:57

    ok this code randomly read the tool tip on focus :
    ```<a data-toggle="tooltip" href="#" data-original-title="title to read of the link" aria-describedby="tooltip350">textlink</a>

    ```<div class="tooltip" id="tooltip350">title to read of the link</div>

  12. jkva
    10:57
    One more backtick =)
  13. cr2a-graphique
    10:57

    ok this code randomly read the tool tip on focus :
    ````<a data-toggle="tooltip" href="#" data-original-title="title to read of the link" aria-describedby="tooltip350">textlink</a>

    ````<div class="tooltip" id="tooltip350">title to read of the link</div>

  14. jkva
    10:58
    They need to sit 'around' the code
  15. jkva
    10:58
    ````foo````
  16. cr2a-graphique
    10:58

    ok this code randomly read the tool tip on focus :
    <a data-toggle="tooltip" href="#" data-original-title="title to read of the link" aria-describedby="tooltip350">textlink</a>

    <div class="tooltip" id="tooltip350">title to read of the link</div>

  17. jkva
    10:58
    cool
  18. cr2a-graphique
    10:59
    this work randomly, one time read the aria-describedby one time read just the textlink
  19. jkva
    11:02
    But it doesn't consistently read both?
  20. jkva
    11:02
    It's either one or the other?
  21. cr2a-graphique
    11:03
    yes doesn't consistently read both, one time both one time only textlink
  22. jkva
    11:04
    Hm, from what I can see you're using the aria attribute right, weird.
  23. cr2a-graphique
    11:05
    Maybe they cant read the ariadescribed generated by JS in real time ?
  24. MichielBijl
    11:05
    The anchor (which should be a button) is linked to #tooltip350; if you focus the anchor (which should be a button) it reads the aria-describbedby that is inside div id="tooltip350". This is to be expected.
  25. jkva
    11:06
    @MichielBijl: What don't I understand? I thought the problem was the seemingly random reading of the label vs the textlink?
  26. MichielBijl
    11:06
    aria-describedby should work for hidden elements as far as I know (e.g. if <div id="tooltip350"> is hidden, and the anchor (which should be a button) receives focus; it should still read the aria-describedby.
  27. MichielBijl
    11:07
    @jkva: maybe I don't understand the issue. “Some text” is randomly spoken…
  28. MichielBijl
    11:07
    @cr2a-graphique can you explain which text is spoken?
  29. jkva
    11:08
    "textlink" (the content of the anchor) and the content of #tooltip350, from what I understand
  30. jkva
    11:08
    Never both, always one or the other
  31. cr2a-graphique
    11:08
    ok im going to show you a real exemple
  32. jkva
    11:08
    @cr2a-graphique : can you confirm my understanding?
  33. MichielBijl
    11:08
    Good, thank you =)
  34. stevefaulkner
    11:10
    note: that what is announced by a particular AT depends on how you interact with the element.
  35. MichielBijl
    11:11
    AAM for a element: https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/#a-element
  36. stevefaulkner
    11:12
    examples here: http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/acc-name-test/a-href.html in this case the title is being used to provide the accessible description, but makes no diff if it was aria-describedby
  37. cr2a-graphique
    11:13

    <a class="hasTooltip" href="/index.php?option=com_opac&view=DetailNotice" data-original-title="Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau aria-describedby="tooltip350"">Dans la peau</a>
    <div role="tooltip" class="tooltip fade top" id="tooltip660125" style="top: 2795.85px; left: 740.733px; display: block;"><div class="tooltip-arrow" style="left: 50%;"></div><div class="tooltip-inner">Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau</div></div>

    This code <div .... id="tooltip660125" ..> is generate on hover / focus
    in the same page (no refresh)
    one time NVDA read only the text link
    one time NVDA read both textlink & ariadescribedby
    i want NVDA read both every time

  38. cr2a-graphique
    11:13
    @jkva sometime both
  39. jkva
    11:14
    Gah
  40. cr2a-graphique
    11:14
    eating time see u in an hour
  41. MichielBijl
    11:15
    Your code is faulty.
  42. stevefaulkner
    11:15

    one time NVDA read only the text link
    one time NVDA read both textlink & ariadescribedby

    :point_up: January 14, 2016 11:12 AM

  43. jkva
    11:15
    Your data-original-title doesn't close it seems?
  44. MichielBijl
    11:15
    You're missing a double quote before aria-describedby.
  45. MichielBijl
    11:15
    Yep.
  46. MichielBijl
    11:16
    There are two double quotes after aria-describedby.
  47. stevefaulkner
    11:16
    also the idrefs dont match
  48. MichielBijl
    11:16
    Another case solved with use of the NU validator 8)
  49. cr2a-graphique
    11:16
    Your code is faulty., my bad i miss " in write here but its good in real
  50. jkva
    11:16
    What about the tooltip ids?
  51. stevefaulkner
    11:17
    aria-describedby="tooltip350" and id="tooltip660125"
  52. MichielBijl
    11:17
    Let me rephrase: another case solved by use of Steve.
  53. jkva
    11:17
    Steve++
  54. cr2a-graphique
    11:17
    sory sory here a good writing code
    <a class="hasTooltip" href="/index.php?option=com_opac&view=DetailNotice" data-original-title="Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau" aria-describedby="tooltip350"">Dans la peau</a>
    <div role="tooltip" class="tooltip fade top" id="tooltip350" style="top: 2795.85px; left: 740.733px; display: block;"><div class="tooltip-arrow" style="left: 50%;"></div><div class="tooltip-inner">Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau</div></div>
  55. jkva
    11:18
    Still two quotes after tooltip350 on the anchor
  56. jkva
    11:18
    aria-describedby="tooltip350""
  57. cr2a-graphique
    11:18
    sory sory here a good writing code
    <a class="hasTooltip" href="/index.php?option=com_opac&view=DetailNotice" data-original-title="Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau" aria-describedby="tooltip350">Dans la peau</a>
    <div role="tooltip" class="tooltip fade top" id="tooltip350" style="top: 2795.85px; left: 740.733px; display: block;"><div class="tooltip-arrow" style="left: 50%;"></div><div class="tooltip-inner">Accéder à la notice : Dans la peau</div></div>
  58. cr2a-graphique
    11:18
    too much presure sory
  59. jkva
    11:19
    But if you're writing this just for us, we have no way of knowing if it's the actual code
  60. MichielBijl
    11:19
    @cr2a-graphique you can use code blocks in markdown. Please see the markdown button to the right of the input field.
  61. stevefaulkner
    11:21
    @cr2a-graphique suggest providing a working example that exhibits the behaviour you are finding
  62. cr2a-graphique
    12:42
    ok i be back soon with an online exemple
  63. cr2a-graphique
    16:01
    im back for an other question, you know why NVDA for a required input on focus say :
  64. zakim-robot
    16:34
    [jitendra] > Microsoft announces Skype integration for Slack
  65. garcialo
    16:34
    People still use Skype?
  66. zakim-robot
    16:35
    [jitendra] Yes I still use for video calls to my family and video interviews
  67. garcialo
    16:36
    Interesting
  68. zakim-robot
    16:36

    [karlgroves] > People still use Skype?

    Tons. :disappointed:

  69. garcialo
    16:36
    oh, it's probably built into Windows 10 now, huh?
  70. zakim-robot
    16:36
    [karlgroves] Lots of very large companies use it. It replaced Lync
  71. zakim-robot
    16:36
    [jitendra] I use it on my Xbox one to talk to family
  72. garcialo
    16:36
    oh wow
  73. zakim-robot
    16:37
    [jitendra] And on mac too sometime
  74. garcialo
    16:37
    interesting
  75. zakim-robot
    16:37
    [karlgroves] I don’t necessarily dislike Skype. I just prefer Slack
  76. jkva
    16:37
    Another meeting in which I have to defend my stance on proper web development instead of throwing some angular together. Gaaaah. So tired of it.
  77. MichielBijl
    16:37
    So now I can call you slackers?
  78. MichielBijl
    16:37
    Or is that not how it works…
  79. zakim-robot
    16:38
    [jitendra] I think Skype should not be compare with Slack
  80. garcialo
    16:38
    well, depends on what the integration is
  81. zakim-robot
    16:38
    [jitendra] Slack is different and it can be compared with Hipchat or IRC or Gitters
  82. zakim-robot
    16:41
    [jitendra] this is skype+slack integration page. it’s in beta
  83. zakim-robot
    16:41
    [jitendra] http://www.skype.com/en/features/slack/?
  84. zakim-robot
    16:42
    [unknown] Congrats, Skype is now ready to use in any of your channels. Simply type /skype to start a new video call.
  85. zakim-robot
    16:44
    [jitendra] would anyone like to have a skype call to test?
  86. MichielBijl
    16:44
    So it just starts Skype?
  87. MichielBijl
    16:44
    I don't have Skype…
  88. zakim-robot
    16:45
    [jitendra] you can use https://web.skype.com/
  89. stevefaulkner
    17:51

    @cr2a-graphique

    incorect entry, required, with auto completion
    is this normal ?

    yes this is normal, because when the HTML5 required attribute is used and the textbox does not satisfy its validation constraints (i.e. it has no input) it is exposed as both required and invalid in acc APIs, as per spec
    @cr2a-graphique

  90. jnurthen
    18:10
    @stevefaulkner sounds like another good reason not to use the HTML5 required attribute to me :)
  91. jnurthen
    18:11
    It should not be invalid until the user has tried to submit it.
  92. stevefaulkner
    18:12
    @jnurthen note the mapping varies across browsers and OS's
  93. jnurthen
    18:12
    then double ugh
  94. jnurthen
    18:13
    I guess this is another reason our devs resist using @required, instead preferring to do their own messaging and use aria-required and aria-invalid instead
  95. MichielBijl
    18:47
    That reminds me of a sketch by a Dutch comedian where he got a ticket for not wearing his seatbelt before he even got in the car.
  96. jnurthen
    18:49
    LOL
  97. zakim-robot
    18:52
    [karlgroves] as in Bass Shoes
  98. zakim-robot
    19:00
    [jitendra] https://www.joedolson.com/2016/01/im-an-accessibility-consultant-stop-hiring-me/
  99. zakim-robot
    19:00
    [jitendra] > Do you built web sites?If so, you should have already known that, and you shouldn’t need an accessibility consultant to tell you.
  100. zakim-robot
    19:17
    [heidi] hey folks, does there exist a “how to” for making a slack channel more accessible? this one patches in an external client somehow, right?
  101. zakim-robot
    19:25
    [alice] It uses sameroom.io to pipe this channel to the gitter channel mentioned in the topic
  102. zakim-robot
    19:27
    [karlgroves] What do you guys think of sameroom.io?
  103. MichielBijl
    19:30
    Works as advertised here me thinks.
  104. MichielBijl
    19:30
    Only had one outage (can't remember the reason).
  105. garcialo
    19:30
    I'm pretty sure it was @stevefaulkner's fault
  106. MichielBijl
    19:31
    Probably
  107. stevefaulkner
    20:04
    yeah it was
  108. stevefaulkner
    20:07
    @jnurthen there's a whole slew of reasons around the browser implementations of the html5 validation stuff that turns devs off using it :-(
  109. jnurthen
    20:13
    am i reading ARIA in HTML right that it forbids using aria-required on an input type=text?
  110. jnurthen
    20:13
    if so this is crazytown
  111. zakim-robot
    20:23
    [johnbhartley] by giving the input an attr of required won't the input be implicitly defined then as required?
  112. zakim-robot
    20:24
    [karlgroves] @jnurthen - where?
  113. zakim-robot
    20:24
    [karlgroves] @johnbhartley: no. It’ll be explicitly defined as required. :wink:
  114. zakim-robot
    20:24
    [johnbhartley] ^ good point :smile:
  115. jnurthen
    20:28
    https://specs.webplatform.org/html-aria/webspecs/master/
  116. jnurthen
    20:28
    input type=text says I can use global aria attributes
  117. jnurthen
    20:28
    aria-required is NOT a global attribute
  118. zakim-robot
    20:29
    [karlgroves] Under aria-required it says:
    "Use the aria-required attribute on any element that is allowed the required attribute in HTML5."
  119. zakim-robot
    20:30
    [karlgroves] I don’t see any admonition against it anywhere.
  120. jnurthen
    20:30
    I didn't see that part.
  121. jnurthen
    20:31
    <del>crazytown</del>
  122. zakim-robot
    20:31
    [karlgroves] Yeah that doc is not very well organized for clarity, IMO
  123. jnurthen
    20:31
    maybe we should tell the editor ;)
  124. zakim-robot
    20:31
    [karlgroves] Hmmmmmm. Commit log has stevefaulkner all over it. That explains everything
  125. zakim-robot
    20:32
    [karlgroves] :trollface:
  126. garcialo
    20:32
    hah
  127. stevefaulkner
    21:55
    @jnurthen the spec version you are pointing to stale and the spec is now in W3C proper https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/
  128. jnurthen
    21:58
    any way to get it to say that :)
  129. stevefaulkner
    22:00
    i dont have access to the repo, robin B, but yes need to get redirect
  130. stevefaulkner
    22:05
    @jnurthen bug filed to make allowance of aria-required clearer w3c/html-aria#19
  131. jnurthen
    22:05
    thanks
  132. stevefaulkner
    22:07
    if so this is crazytown
  133. stevefaulkner
    22:07
    its likely a spec bug
  134. jnurthen
    22:11
    i think it is a spec confusion bug not a spec bug. My understanding of the spec was that only those things that were in the last column were allowed, not looking at the bottom of that table which has "exceptions" essentially
  135. jnurthen
    22:13
    Maybe separate those last few rows out into a separate table and then reference it from various places - maybe even from the column heading. (i.e. ARIA roles, states and properties which may be used - except where noted in reference to new table)
  136. jnurthen
    22:16
    on a related note why can't i put aria-invalid on a text input field??
  137. stevefaulkner
    22:18
    @jnurthen do me a favour and file an issue(s) on the stuff above 😬
  138. stevefaulkner
    22:19
    I am more than happy to fix
  139. stevefaulkner
    22:20
    File em here https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues
  140. jnurthen
    22:22
    filing now
  141. stevefaulkner
    22:22
    😘
  142. stevefaulkner
    22:27
    @jnurthen message recieved
  143. metzessible
    23:42

    Hi everybody. It's taken some time, but I finally figured out #ACCESSIBEER at CSUN this year. Last year we went on a tour at Societe Brewing Company and had a sweet backstage look at the White Labs facility where they grow the stuff that gives the loveliness that wonderful kick — yeast.

    This year I'm doing it a little different. I'd like to have (what I believe is) the world's first accessible group brew. The idea is that we'd meet over a video chat and brew a beer together. Then we'll bring the beer to the conference (I have details on how to do this for various airlines, and the stuff you'll need to get it there cleanly). This brings me to the second part.

    If you don't want to brew a beer, or you don't want to get the necessary equipment for it, you can still participate! At CSUN, I'd like to get together for a real beer tasting (the way beer snobs taught me how to do it). Those of us that brewed will be able to showcase those at the tasting. But those who didn't brew can go to a local store and get what's called a bomber here in the States, which is essentially a 22oz. tall single bottle of beer. Lots of brewers end up selling some of their best stuff only in this format.

    I don't have all the info I need for things, mostly because the logistics will be determined based on the interest and obvious accommodations. If you're down with this, I've got some local brewers lined up here in DC who are interested in being our guides on our brew.

    Aside from #ACCESSIBEER's group brew, if you're interested I'm told there's a couple Hop farms around the area, and I was considering going to a pick-your-own farm on Saturday 3/26.

    Anyhoo, how does this sound to people?

  144. jnurthen
    23:46
    wow - sounds good. I'd certainly be up for a beer tasting - I haven't home brewed yet - but it is on my to-do list some time in the future
  145. jnurthen
    23:47
    there are a bunch of beer bars in San Diego where you can get growlers filled too.
  146. metzessible
    23:48
    @jnurthen Now is your chance to brew at home! Make the future today. It just takes some simple tools to do it. And there's nothing better than experiencing something you made yourself.
  147. metzessible
    23:49
    Yep. You can get growlers filled too. That's an excellent way to have something that can be insanely difficult to find elsewhere.
  148. jnurthen
    23:49
    I believe I went here last time - http://store.bottlecraftbeer.com/pages/whats-on-draft-little-italy
  149. jnurthen
    23:49
    just up the street from ballast Point
  150. jnurthen
    23:50
    How are you planning on getting people to transport their beers
  151. jnurthen
    23:50
    not sure I'd want to put something like that in my bags.....
  152. metzessible
    23:50
    Carefully! LOL The ideal situation would be as checked luggage.
  153. jnurthen
    23:51
    yeah.... I've done wine in checked baggage but beer just seems so much more "dangerous" as it were
  154. jnurthen
    23:51
    i'd be scared of the top blowing
  155. metzessible
    23:55
    It's going to take a wee bit of creativity, but I'm told these work well:
    http://www.amazon.com/Wine-Skin-WineSkin-Bag-2-Pack/dp/B0033C6FOM
  156. metzessible
    23:57
    Aside from that, some bubble wrap, tape and perhaps some plastic bags for double protection.
  157. jnurthen
    23:57
    I'm guessing I'd probably get a metal growler rather than a glass one too
  158. jnurthen
    23:58
    something like this - http://www.amazon.com/Klear-Bottle-Double-Insulated-Stainless/dp/B013HOXCE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1452815854&sr=8-4&keywords=metal+growler