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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 16th of January 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    03:06
    [marcysutton] hahaha woww
  2. zakim-robot
    03:06
    [marcysutton] And about tooltips, even better
  3. zakim-robot
    03:07
    [marcysutton] https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2016/01/simple-standalone-toggletip-widget-pattern/
  4. stevefaulkner
    08:56
    @marcysutton yeah that's what gave me the 'feeling'
  5. MichielBijl
    14:04
    @karlgroves I'm researching beautification options for the APG. What is your preferred HTML beautification module? I'd like one where I can force attributes to got to separate lines.
  6. MichielBijl
    14:04
    Basically, I'd like one that offers a nice config file.
  7. zakim-robot
    14:05
    [karlgroves] Attributes on separate lines? :scream:
  8. MichielBijl
    14:06
    This looks good: https://github.com/beautify-web/js-beautify
  9. MichielBijl
    14:06
    @karlgroves, it's much easier for some editors =)
  10. MichielBijl
    14:06
    @mck told me he prefers it that way.
  11. MichielBijl
    14:06
    Not mck, that's his nick on IRC, I meant Matt King.
  12. MichielBijl
    14:07
    Other editors (me included) don't mind.
  13. zakim-robot
    14:08
    [karlgroves] we use grunt-prettify on TPG’s training material, which includes code samples.
  14. MichielBijl
    14:09
    That doesn't seem to offer attribute-on-separate-lines-ness =(
  15. zakim-robot
    14:10
    [karlgroves] thinks that’s a good thing. :wink:
  16. garcialo
    14:10
    :+1:
  17. MichielBijl
    14:11
    Hehe, I get the skepticism, but if it makes editing the document easier for some editors, I'm all for.
  18. garcialo
    14:11
    Is it actually an issue for him if the attributes aren't on a different line?
  19. garcialo
    14:12
    Or is it just a preference?
  20. MichielBijl
    14:12
    Ideally it would split at 80 characters or something.
  21. MichielBijl
    14:12
    Hmm, I'll have to ask.
  22. garcialo
    14:12
    Isn't setting max line length a thing?
  23. MichielBijl
    14:12
    Yeah it is.
  24. zakim-robot
    14:12
    [karlgroves] IMO the project dictates the contribution requirements. I get not wanting to alienate contributors but that specific request isn’t really something that many other contribs will be able to get behind.
  25. zakim-robot
    14:13
    [karlgroves] Perhaps there’s a way that he can use such a formatter locally and then run the project’s prettifier (and, IMO, other tasks) as a pre-commit hook
  26. MichielBijl
    14:14
    Hmm, I get that. As for now, I'm working on different ways to make the document source code more readable: https://github.com/w3c/aria/blob/feature/editorconfig/practices/tests/Beautification%20test%20results.md
  27. garcialo
    14:14
    Is it his project? If not, then he should conform to the existing codebase.
  28. MichielBijl
    14:14
    So I'd still like to try it out.
  29. MichielBijl
    14:14
    @garcialo no. It's W3C's =P
  30. garcialo
    14:15
    Then yeah, he should just deal with it. =p
  31. MichielBijl
    14:15
    He is Chair to the APG if I recall correctly.
  32. MichielBijl
    14:16
    In any case, at this point it's just research.
  33. garcialo
    14:16
    Got it.
  34. MichielBijl
    14:16
    Decision will have to be made at the end.
  35. MichielBijl
    14:18
    @karlgoves, that could work too =)
  36. LjWatson
    14:19
    The W3C doesn't dictate a particular code style. The spec templates we use generally point things in a certain direction, but not to the level of detail that would define whether attribs went on one or multiple lines.
  37. LjWatson
    14:19
    I suspect that Matt prefers attribs on separate lines because he is a screen reader user, and multiple attribs on a single line are more difficult to navigate through/quickly locate.
  38. LjWatson
    14:20
    It's a subjective thing though. I use a screen reader and prefer multiple attribs on a line, with the line break ocurring at whichever line end is set.
  39. garcialo
    14:21
    Interesting.
  40. MichielBijl
    14:21
    Interesting indeed. Thanks Léonie.
  41. garcialo
    14:22
    Then yeah, what @karlgroves said.
  42. MichielBijl
    14:22
    I'll have to do some rewrites…
  43. MichielBijl
    14:22
    My assumption was that Matt's preferences was a shared one, but that assumption—as most assumptions really—was wrong.
  44. LjWatson
    14:23
    Think rewriting what has already been written is busy work.
  45. MichielBijl @MichielBijl is very busy.
  46. zakim-robot
    14:23
    [karlgroves] This looks pretty cool. Wonder if there’s an equivalent for HTML. It alphabetizes CSS properties
    https://www.npmjs.com/package/csscomb
  47. garcialo
    14:23
    Oh, that is neat.
  48. LjWatson
    14:23
    +1
  49. MichielBijl
    14:24
    csscomb is awesome.
  50. MichielBijl
    14:24
    It not only alphabetizes (which is crap IMHO) but let's you set your own order too.
  51. MichielBijl
    14:24
    Logical grouping of CSS properties is, well, more logical if you ask me.
  52. zakim-robot
    14:24
    [karlgroves] Not sure how helpful that would be to a screen reader user, but seems at least a helpful middle ground
  53. MichielBijl @MichielBijl doesn't think automatically ordering HTML elements would be a good thing =P
  54. garcialo
    14:25
    hah
  55. MichielBijl
    14:25
    But I would like to use csscomb for the examples!
  56. garcialo
    14:26
    You'd have to be more subtle if you wanted to ruin a page. Maybe alphabetize only the ID attribute values.
  57. zakim-robot
    14:27
    [karlgroves] LOL But wait! It’d make it super accessible! Forget screen readers and their stupid ability to list links! This would put all the links first anyway!
  58. MichielBijl
    14:27
    Ha =D
  59. garcialo
    14:27
    I guess that would be one way to bypass blocks.
  60. MichielBijl
    14:27
    Heading outlines would be a mess though =P
  61. zakim-robot
    15:05
    [marcozehe] OK, this worked. Now back on here from Slack.
  62. garcialo
    15:06
    Howdy
  63. MichielBijl @MichielBijl waves at Marco
  64. stevefaulkner
    15:13
    Hey @marcozehe
  65. jkva @jkva waves
  66. zakim-robot
    15:58
    [marcozehe] Oh interesting. All of you who chat from Gitter don't have names in here, or at least they aren't read to me.
  67. MichielBijl
    15:59
    They're prepended to the messages no?
  68. garcialo
    15:59
    Does it say anything at all or is it no name?
  69. MichielBijl
    15:59
    That's how it works on the Glitter side anyway.
  70. garcialo
    16:00
    @MichielBijl On Slack, all Gitter users 1) Share the same avatar and 2) Have "BOT" as kind of a note after the user name.
  71. MichielBijl
    16:01
    Aha
  72. MichielBijl @MichielBijl just bought brand new cassette tapes…
  73. garcialo
    16:01
    @MichielBijl is living in the past.
  74. MichielBijl
    16:02
    Yes. =P
  75. zakim-robot
    16:02
    [marcozehe] No, the names aren't read to me. The only one I see on the last 2-3 pages of history is the good friend @karlgroves .
  76. zakim-robot
    16:02
    [karlgroves] Thats the only one that matters! :wink:
  77. MichielBijl
    16:02
    @marcozehe he's on Slack too.
  78. zakim-robot
    16:03
    [garcialo] Here we go, I've popped over to slack.
  79. MichielBijl
    16:03
    @garcialo I will also receive an original Sony Walkman tonight =P
  80. zakim-robot
    16:03
    [marcozehe] @garcialo: your name is now also coming through.
  81. zakim-robot
    16:04
    [garcialo] Yeah, I've switched over to Slack. :smiley:
  82. MichielBijl
    16:04
    I wish Slack would just jump into the channel if you visited slack.com
  83. zakim-robot
    16:05
    [marcozehe] And @michiel is coming through if he uses the /me thing. But @SteveFaulkner isn't, for example. No name, and the message is the plain message without the nickname prepended. But again, this might be another yet undiscovered a11y issue in the Slack for iOS client.
  84. MichielBijl @MichielBijl thinks that his user name is part of the plain message with the use of /me
  85. zakim-robot
    16:06
    [marcozehe] Exactly that way.
  86. zakim-robot
    16:06
    [marcozehe] For example I don't know who said "I wish Slack would just jump into the ..." Above.
  87. MichielBijl
    16:07
    That was me
  88. MichielBijl
    16:07
    Muwahaha
  89. MichielBijl
    16:07
    Said Michiel
  90. zakim-robot
    16:07
    [garcialo] Yeah, the only Gitterer right speaking now is @michielbijl since I moved over
  91. zakim-robot
    16:07
    [marcozehe] @michiel: yep, your nick definitely only comes through to here if you used /me. Like "/me got new cassette tapes".
  92. zakim-robot
    16:08
    [marcozehe] Ah, and auto-complete isn't working reliably sometimes. Sorry about that!
  93. zakim-robot
    16:08
    [garcialo] I was the one that says "@MichielBijl is living in the past"
  94. zakim-robot
    16:08
    [marcozehe] OK!
  95. MichielBijl
    16:09
    @MarcoZehe, that is probably because of the sameroom tunnel and difference in nicknames on both Slack and Gitter/GitHub
  96. zakim-robot
    16:09
    [marcozehe] Yep, could be!
  97. MichielBijl
    16:11
    Gitter on iOS has some issues too, unlabelled buttons being one.
  98. zakim-robot
    16:11
    [garcialo] It appears that the Gitter just prepends the username to the messags
  99. zakim-robot
    16:11
    [marcozehe] Yes I noticed that, too. And it otherwise embeds the web page, which is also far from optimal.
  100. MichielBijl
    16:11
    And the message area lacks aria-live (new messages aren't announced anyway)
  101. zakim-robot
    16:12
    [garcialo] Slack client on Windows announces who is typing.
  102. zakim-robot
    16:12
    [marcozehe] @garcialo: yeah I am on Slack now, and whatever the SameRoom connection does is a bit weird. :-) Or again, it might be the VoiceOver support in the iOS app.
  103. zakim-robot
    16:13
    [garcialo] Keyboarding is...bad.
  104. zakim-robot
    16:13
    [marcozehe] I see that in the iOS client too if a Slack user is typing.
  105. zakim-robot
    16:13
    [garcialo] But yeah, doesn't read the chat out while it comes in.
  106. MichielBijl
    16:13
    @garcialo try tabbing out the message field on Gitter :')
  107. zakim-robot
    16:15
    [garcialo] I can pull up Slacks' keyboard shortcuts, but can't navigate them while SR is on
  108. zakim-robot
    16:15
    [garcialo] Focus not kept in the modal...ish thing.
  109. zakim-robot
    16:16
    [marcozehe] Yeah this thing lacks complete semantic markup.
  110. zakim-robot
    16:16
    [marcozehe] And it has a lot of little icon font buttons that aren't properly labeled, either.
  111. MichielBijl
    16:16
    I've been working on a replacement UI for Gitter
  112. zakim-robot
    16:16
    [marcozehe] And Slack has a similar set of problems in the web app.
  113. zakim-robot
    16:17
    [garcialo] Yeah, NVDA announces "To return to this press control question mark" but the shortcut is Ctrl /
  114. zakim-robot
    16:17
    [garcialo] so close
  115. zakim-robot
    16:17
    [marcozehe] Well, wouldn't it be better to fix the existing one? ;-) One of the devs now started working on that.
  116. MichielBijl
    16:18
    @marcozehe, sure, but I want to have something that only uses native controls to show that that can be a thing.
  117. zakim-robot
    16:18
    [marcozehe] Good point.
  118. MichielBijl
    16:19
    Since you don't really care about styling that much, you can view it here: https://rawgit.com/MichielBijl/gitter-semantics/master/build/index.html
  119. MichielBijl
    16:19
    =P
  120. zakim-robot
    16:19
    [garcialo] Quick Switcher announces "blank" for each channel you're selecting to try and switch to.
  121. MichielBijl
    16:20
    Although I think Slack/Sameroom doesn't convert links to links…
  122. zakim-robot
    16:21
    [marcozehe] I copied the text of the message and will extract the link from there. :-)
  123. zakim-robot
    16:22
    [garcialo] This is nice; the "keyboard" shortcut for setting a message as oldest unread message is "Alt and click a message"
  124. MichielBijl
    16:23
    Ha
  125. zakim-robot
    16:25
    [garcialo] okay, this is bad. When using the autocomplete for @ mentions, it always reads the last selected name in the autocomplete
  126. MichielBijl
    16:25
    Oh btw, @marcozehe, that still needs a lot of work
  127. zakim-robot
    16:29
    [marcozehe] Yeah that's fine! However, as with desktop screen readers, at least for VoiceOver or other mobile browser/AT combinations: The more semantic, the more you get for free there, too.
  128. MichielBijl
    16:30
    Yep. Current version only uses standard controls, and I tend to keep it that way. Only exception is the textarea for message input.
  129. MichielBijl
    16:31
    I think I did that because you can switch between single and multi line mode.
  130. MichielBijl
    16:31
    Which you might as well solve by switching between an input and textarea I guess.
  131. zakim-robot
    16:35
    [garcialo] "Snippets" are a black hole of keyboardity. Esc to close modal? Nope, just changes the buttons to "No, keep it" and "Yes discard it" Hitting Esc again seems to be interpreted as "No, keep it."
  132. MichielBijl
    16:37
    @jnurthen do you know why the APG gets role=document added to the <body>?
  133. MichielBijl
    16:38
    It's not in the source, so must be something in reSpec (I'm guessing anyway)
  134. stevefaulkner
    16:55
    @MichielBijl it's for RDF purposes
  135. MichielBijl
    16:55
    And RDF stands for?
  136. MichielBijl
    16:56
    My dictionary says Rapid Deployment Force…
  137. stevefaulkner
    16:58
    Resource definition format or some such SemWeb stuff, Respec adds are heap of stuff to the code, you should also read the Respec documentation before you start messing with source too much as there are various conventions you need to adhere to
  138. MichielBijl
    16:58
    @stevefaulkner could you also tell me why this is at the start: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>? It's disabled in the ARIA spec for some reason.
  139. MichielBijl
    16:59
    @stevefaulkner I will, Michael sent me some links on that.
  140. jnurthen
    17:06
    @MichielBijl I think @stevefaulkner is correct. Role=document comes from respec. Shane is the best person to answer any respec questions.
  141. MichielBijl @MichielBijl is reading the ReSpec documentation
  142. zakim-robot
    18:18
    [cameron] curious about accessible screen sharing
  143. zakim-robot
    18:18
    [cameron] especially remote interaction
  144. zakim-robot
    18:19
    [cameron] something like https://screenhero.com/
  145. zakim-robot
    18:20
    [cameron] I've heard there's no existing solution for blind-accessible screen sharing
  146. zakim-robot
    18:20
    [cameron] but wanted to know what the issues are
  147. zakim-robot
    18:20
    [cameron] since it'd be pretty excellent way to do usability studies
  148. zakim-robot
    19:23
    [karlgroves] Any math nerds hang out in here?
  149. jkva @jkva was coincidentally asking himself that today
  150. StommePoes
    19:28
    @cameron there's something allowing one screen reader user to remote access another computer though, NVDA Remote Access.
  151. StommePoes
    19:29
    Not sure that's the same thing, but developers who use an SR can go into another (Windows only I assume) computer and read out what's on that machine as well
  152. StommePoes
    19:29
    FS has something similar except you have to buy it for lotsa monies
  153. jkva
    19:37
    karlgroves: What would you have asked? Curious.
  154. zakim-robot
    19:48
    [karlgroves] I am just crunching some numbers on Tenon’s recent pricing survey and wanted some info on statistics.
  155. zakim-robot
    19:49
    [karlgroves] Its all good now though. I got ahold of a friend who is literally a rocket scientist.
  156. jkva
    19:49
    Oh yeah, don't we all have a friend like that =)
  157. MichielBijl
    19:49
    Hmm, does rocket science in KSP count? =P
  158. jkva
    20:03
    CSUN ticket ordered =D
  159. zakim-robot
    20:03
    [marcozehe] NVDA remote requires that the other end run it, too. So yes, Windows only.
  160. MichielBijl
    20:03
    @jkva nice =D
  161. zakim-robot
    20:05
    [marcozehe] Will buy my CSUN ticket next week after we've made a decision who else of us is going.
  162. MichielBijl @MichielBijl hopes to meet Marco when he's there
  163. StommePoes @StommePoes asks @MarcoZehe, won't eeejay from Moz come?
  164. zakim-robot
    20:19
    [karlgroves] My first CSUN, the first people I met were Stevie Wonder and Marco Zehe. We all got in an elevator together, right after I had checked in
  165. jkva
    20:20
    ...really?
  166. jkva
    20:20
    Woah
  167. StommePoes
    20:21
    (StommePoes) I met Karl at some lunch meeting with Gonz and didn't recognise him because he wasn't all bald and punky... he and Gonz yacked about punk bands
  168. zakim-robot
    20:22
    [karlgroves] This was back when it was in Los Angeles. It was insanely crowded and took place in two hotels by LAX airport. It was like a madhouse in there and I barely fit inside the elevator. I get in there, chest-to-chest with this really tall black guy and I was like “Holy shit! That’s Stevie Wonder"
  169. MichielBijl
    20:22
    Ha :D
  170. zakim-robot
    20:22
    [karlgroves] Then I see a guy with Firefox button on his shirt and I was like “Holy shit! That’s Marco Zehe!"
  171. zakim-robot
    20:23
    [karlgroves] @StommePoes - that was fun. Everytime I talked to Gonz he and I yack about punk bands.
  172. MichielBijl
    20:24
    I'm terrible with names, so that'll be a lot of fun at CSUN…
  173. jkva
    20:26
    @MichielBijl: Use nicknames
  174. MichielBijl
    20:27
    Nah, I'll probably end up calling Karl a Lumberjack and Billy a Viking, that's just too messed up =P
  175. MichielBijl @MichielBijl is not sure if it would've been funnier if I used the correct nicknames there.
  176. StommePoes
    20:28
    vikings are hairier
  177. StommePoes
    20:28
    They have beards
  178. zakim-robot
    20:29
    [karlgroves] Billy is now A11y-Jesus with all his hair & beard.
  179. MichielBijl
    20:29
    Haha
  180. MichielBijl
    20:29
    @StommePoes but Billy has more hair, so how does that work?
  181. MichielBijl
    20:30
    I'll come as my alter ego, a11y cat.
  182. MichielBijl
    20:30
    Oeh, maybe I can travel in a cage and spare some expense.
  183. jkva
    20:30
    Flight booked
  184. MichielBijl
    20:31
    Woohoo!
  185. jkva
    20:34
    ++$dutch_csun_visitors
  186. MichielBijl
    20:35
    ducth_fuckers_at_csun++
  187. jkva
    20:35
    Psh! I don't resemble that remark.
  188. StommePoes
    20:37
    (Stomme poes) Aw man, we ought to get tshirts with Dutch Fuckers on it just to go hunt down SteveF with
  189. MichielBijl
    20:37
    ducth_fuckers_at_csun-- && dutch_people_at_csun++
  190. jkva
    20:37
    \o/
  191. MichielBijl
    20:37
    @StommePoes I—Michiel—totally agree.
  192. jkva
    20:37
    that && might not evaluate if dutch_fuckers_at_csun is false :-/
  193. jkva
    20:37
    anyway
  194. jkva
    20:38
    I'm flying there no matter what classification I fall under
  195. MichielBijl
    20:38
    Haha
  196. StommePoes
    20:38
    Now to see if we can rope Bram Duvigneau and partners to go... expensive though
  197. MichielBijl
    20:38
    @StommePoes let's design some!
  198. StommePoes
    20:38
    haha
  199. StommePoes
    20:39
    Well just use that pic someone already made of the Hollands-Nieuw girl with the needle in her arm, smoking a joint with stuff burning behind her
  200. jkva
    20:39
    I want that "role='drink'" shirt
  201. MichielBijl
    20:39
    Yeah, I proposed role=drink, but nobody else in the group felt like we needed it =(
  202. StommePoes
    20:40
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/b5/b1/a7b5b1625f6f2fae0a70c331c2fefe5d.jpg
  203. StommePoes
    20:41
    should be an Albert Heijn bag in her arms tho
  204. jkva
    20:41
    Pfff
  205. jkva
    20:41
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b7/b6/fe/b7b6fece1d62ff33b8dc725bb054c05d.jpg
  206. StommePoes
    20:41
    and a Heineken bottle in another hand or something
  207. StommePoes
    20:42
    Okay, jkva's looking for a bogan for steve
  208. MichielBijl
    20:43
    Lead off into weeds by Dutch fuckers
  209. MichielBijl
    20:43
    For @stevefaulkner
  210. StommePoes
    20:43
    Honestly the images I get on Google when typing "bogan" looks a lot like the New Kids
  211. StommePoes
    20:43
    alt it
  212. MichielBijl
    20:44
    Did it
  213. MichielBijl
    20:44
    You can alt with markdown.
  214. StommePoes
    20:44
    oh cool
  215. StommePoes
    20:44
    four ticks and a normal img tag?
  216. MichielBijl
    20:44
    Drag image in, edit with up arrow
  217. StommePoes
    20:44
    I have no idea how you add attributes to markdown, thought the purpose of markdown was for bogans who don't write code
  218. MichielBijl
    20:44
    Not sure if that comes through to Slack though
  219. StommePoes
    20:44
    what if you can't drag an image?
  220. StommePoes
    20:45
    lemme try ticks
  221. MichielBijl
    20:45
    [!alt text goes here](img uri)
  222. MichielBijl
    20:45
    Maybe just type that, would work too I guess.
  223. MichielBijl
    20:45
    !Dinosaur says I love you
  224. MichielBijl
    20:45
    :(
  225. jkva
    20:46
    d'awww
  226. MichielBijl
    20:46
    Oh, exclamation mark has to go in front of the brackets.
  227. MichielBijl
    20:46
    Dinosaur says I love you
  228. MichielBijl
    20:46
    Woohoo =D
  229. StommePoes
    20:46
    <img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/b5/b1/a7b5b1625f6f2fae0a70c331c2fefe5d.jpg" alt="Modern Dutch woman styled after the Hollands Nieuw herring girl: joint in her mouth, bandaid over old needle hole, Heineken bag full of tulips and clogs, poisoned flowers and greenhouses behind her and polluting smoke from the factories and a traditional windmill behind that">
  230. StommePoes
    20:47
    nope
  231. StommePoes
    20:47
    the alt's a bit long anyway
  232. MichielBijl
    20:47
    You can do: ![alt text](image uri)
  233. StommePoes
    20:47
    alt="test"
  234. MichielBijl
    20:47
    =D
  235. MichielBijl
    20:47
    The dinosaur is cuter though
  236. jkva
    20:48
    I should have a shirt saying "Wait, this isn't JSConf?"
  237. MichielBijl
    20:48
    Ha
  238. jkva
    20:48
    When I was at EuroPython 2014, I had a different Perl t-shirt for each day =D
  239. MichielBijl
    20:48
    Shirt that says “Dutch fucker” on the front
  240. StommePoes
    20:49
    Should I give KLM feedback on their hard-to-keyboard popout thingies when trying to book a flight? I needed to reach for the trackpad for that
  241. MichielBijl
    20:49
    blob
  242. MichielBijl
    20:49
    STAPH
  243. MichielBijl
    20:49
    T shirt that says “Wait, this isn't JSConf?” on the front
  244. MichielBijl
    20:50
    Same image, alt on second one.
  245. MichielBijl
    20:51
    I'll probably wear my Rosetta and Philae shirt though…
  246. jkva
    20:52
    What's CSUN like when it comes to getting swag?
  247. StommePoes
    20:52
    If there's swag it's by the vendors
  248. StommePoes
    20:52
    gonna see if I can get some MS junk when I'm there
  249. StommePoes
    20:52
    they always have a booth
  250. MichielBijl
    20:53
    Did you ever get that shirt from Chris?
  251. StommePoes
    20:53
    also see if the UbiDuo guy is there, he has no swag but you gotta check out the UbiDuo!
  252. jkva
    20:53
    Yeah, I want a "Browsing on the edge" sticker or something
  253. StommePoes
    20:53
    (for Deaf-to-hearing or andersom device)
  254. StommePoes
    20:53
    I have a shirt from Chris but waiting for "Edge swag" from kyle Pflug
  255. StommePoes
    20:54
    from MS
  256. StommePoes
    20:54
    He says he sent it like a week ago, niether I nor another guy (German) have gotten it yet
  257. StommePoes
    20:56
    kinda ghetto but also cool: http://www.scomm.com/
  258. zakim-robot
    21:20
    [cameron] @marcozehe: do you think NVDA remote could be effective for usability studies?
  259. zakim-robot
    21:21
    [cameron] if a company wanted to test their web content with a remote blind user
  260. StommePoes
    21:29
    (StommePoes) it would really be better if, like via Google Hangouts, the user can turn on screenshare, but then like via Voiceover show onscreen what the SR announces (in case sound doesn't come through)
  261. MichielBijl
    21:37
    (Michiel) Don't NVDA and JAWS have a similar option to VoiceOver?
  262. StommePoes
    21:44
    (StommePoes) @MichielBijl JAWS has something but you pay $$$ for it. NVDA has something because people from 3MouseTech built it.
  263. StommePoes
    21:45
    So no idea what VO has
  264. StommePoes
    21:45
    oh you mean the text showing
  265. StommePoes
    21:45
    I have no idea, I've never seen text in either
  266. MichielBijl
    21:45
    I meant to visually display what it's read out.
  267. MichielBijl
    21:45
    Ah
  268. StommePoes
    21:45
    yeah, haven't seen that.
  269. StommePoes
    21:45
    Doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.
  270. jkva
    21:47
    I'm noticing a lot of pages make Chrome+VoiceOver on OSX Yosemite go to "Chrome Busy" and I cannot move further. Does anyone else encounter this issue?
  271. StommePoes
    21:50
    (StommePoes) Hey @marcoZehe is Heilmann's Slack channel useful/busy? Worth joining?
  272. zakim-robot
    21:58
    [cameron] can hangouts relay system audio? @StommePoes @MichielBijl
  273. zakim-robot
    21:58
    [cameron] I tried with screenhero and had to use a third party app to pipe system audio to mic input
  274. zakim-robot
    21:59
    [cameron] it was a royal pain
  275. MichielBijl
    21:59
    Hmm, not sure, gave only been on the receiving end of hangouts.
  276. zakim-robot
    22:00
    [michiel] We can try.
  277. zakim-robot
    22:00
    [cameron] awesome
  278. StommePoes
    22:00
    It could at least if the system audio is heard by the microphone
  279. MichielBijl
    22:00
    Yeah, but be better if audio was direct from system.
  280. zakim-robot
    22:02
    [michiel] So how do you start a hangout :P
  281. zakim-robot
    22:02
    [cameron] do you have an account with the Googs?
  282. zakim-robot
    22:03
    [cameron] DM me that
  283. zakim-robot
    22:03
    [cameron] you can do it through gmail chat
  284. MichielBijl
    22:37
    That was fun =)
  285. zakim-robot
    22:38
    [cameron] hah yes!
  286. zakim-robot
    22:39
    [cameron] I’m going to play with the audio patching
  287. zakim-robot
    22:40
    [cameron] for anyone curious, @MichielBijl and I just tested remote voiceover with OS X’s built in screen sharing app
  288. zakim-robot
    22:40
    [cameron] the keyboard commands work as expected!
  289. zakim-robot
    22:40
    [cameron] which was a surprise to me
  290. zakim-robot
    22:40
    [cameron] but the audio does not pass through
  291. MichielBijl @MichielBijl should have fixed his hair
  292. zakim-robot
    22:43
    [cameron] http://osxdaily.com/2013/02/25/record-system-audio-mac-os-x-soundflower/
  293. zakim-robot
    22:43
    [cameron] that’s what I’m thinking of using
  294. MichielBijl
    22:44
    :+1:
  295. metzessible
    22:49
    You can also record it through QT.
  296. MichielBijl
    22:50
    It's about live remote control
  297. MichielBijl
    22:51
    You can also save the audio with a keyboard command.
  298. zakim-robot
    22:54
    [cameron] @metzessible: the goal is to pass the audio through the mic interface so the remote user can hear it
  299. MichielBijl
    22:56
    Damn, I forgot the keyboard command for exporting stuff from VoiceOver =/
  300. MichielBijl
    22:56
    VO-Shift-Z
  301. MichielBijl
    22:56
    That's it
  302. MichielBijl
    22:57
    Saves audio and text to a file
  303. MichielBijl
    22:57
    VO-Shift-C copies text of last spoken thing to your clipboard
  304. zakim-robot
    22:58
    [cameron] @michielbijl does is save the audio for that entire session?
  305. MichielBijl
    23:00
    No, just the last thing spoken
  306. MichielBijl
    23:01
    https://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/_1131.html
  307. MichielBijl
    23:01
    Thanks to Apple for adding ID's so I can link directly :-1:
  308. MichielBijl
    23:01
    It's under “Orientation commands”
  309. zakim-robot
    23:28
    [cameron] awesome, thanks!