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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 17th of January 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Jan 17 00:45
    [marcozehe] @stommepoes: It's not terribly busy yet, and full of developer evangelists/advocates. So far a lot of "great to see you again!", but not much exchange yet re advocating.
  2. MichielBijl
    Jan 17 00:46
    (Michiel) What is it about anyway?
  3. zakim-robot
    Jan 17 00:49
    [marcozehe] @karlgroves: I was on an elevator together with you in LA? Why on Earth do I not remember? But then, don't recall sharing an elevator ride with Stevie Wonder, either. Probably didn't look closely. ;-)
  4. MichielBijl
    Jan 17 00:53
    Ha
  5. zakim-robot
    Jan 17 00:53
    [marcozehe] BTW, will be in Toronto for a week starting next Saturday, and on the 27th, Mozilla will host the a11yto meetup. Look forward to seeing Billy and some other great folks! Too bad @a11yjennison won't be there probably! :-(
  6. zakim-robot
    02:35
    [kevinchao89] I can confirm @marcozehe that those who chat using Gitter: name isn't prepended to message when viewed with iOS Slack VoiceOver
  7. zakim-robot
    02:50
    [kevinchao89] Interesting, it looks like issue with name not being attached happens for those who post from IRC too. Makes following conversation a bit difficult without this context. Wonder if it's just an #a11y bug
  8. zakim-robot
    02:57
    [kevinchao89] NVDA is updated 4x year and aria-hidden="true" has been supported for some time. Results based on 2012 should be updated
  9. zakim-robot
    03:01
    [kevinchao89] Just read about IE6 support and was stunned. Wow! Assume mostly static web site and not interactive web app
  10. zakim-robot
    03:08
    [kevinchao89] Social media links after article should have role="complimentary"
  11. zakim-robot
    03:14
    [kevinchao89] Following date picker works great on desktop, but not mobile as it doesn't switch to number keypad or use the adjustable sliders: http://html.cita.illinois.edu/nav/form/date/index.php?example=5
  12. zakim-robot
    03:23
    [kevinchao89] The Angular date picker is responsive and accessible: allows typing in manually and interacting with aria-grid
  13. zakim-robot
    03:52
    [kevinchao89] Android Studio 2.0 preview released in November with Configuring Accessibility on Windows: http://tools.android.com/tech-docs/accessibility/configuring-accessibility-on-windows
  14. zakim-robot
    04:21
    [kevinchao89] For example of href on tab with tab/tabpanel roles and keyboard control, please see plus.google.com Collection, Community, and People
  15. zakim-robot
    04:42
    [kevinchao89] For example of screen reader/keyboard accessible reordering (aka drag and drop), please see photos.google.com album photo reordering and plus.google.com community link and category reordering. TL;DR - SPACEBAR to select > ARROW to move > SPACEBAR to drop. ARIA describedby for usage hint and live-region for update position announcement
  16. zakim-robot
    05:19
    [kevinchao89] Hope ARIA 1.1 equivalent to dt/dd has better support...
  17. zakim-robot
    05:25
    [kevinchao89] Definition list was a good idea, but it has been poorly supported by AT/browser
  18. zakim-robot
    05:36
    [kevinchao89] What's UX with Voice Typing in Google Docs with Chrome? I've found it to be accurate and fast...
  19. zakim-robot
    05:46
    [kevinchao89] Is there an updated support matrix for ARIA 1.0 and HTML5 by Window-Eyes, ZoomText Fusion, and Dragon Naturally Speaking?
  20. zakim-robot
    06:00
    [kevinchao89] Why when using NVDA+Firefox to mouse over an icon button (I.E. SVG inside a button), where aria-label on button: no text is reported under pointer. However, aria-label on button works fine with keyboard focus.
  21. zakim-robot
    06:36
    [marcozehe] @kevinchao89: because NVDA's mouse speak feature tries to get at the deepest child at any given point. So if the SVG isn't labeled, NVDA won't automatically wade up to the button to check its label. Solution: Mark the SVG presentational with role "presentation".
  22. zakim-robot
    07:07
    [kevinchao89] It'll be great when aria-current is implemented, so we can stop hacking aria-label="active" into navigation menus
  23. zakim-robot
    07:20
    [kevinchao89] Hangouts text chat and video call are accessible. VoiceOver comes over when screen sharing.
  24. MichielBijl
    10:48
    @kevinchao89 are you aware aria-label overwrites the content in some browser/at combo's?
  25. StommePoes
    12:38
    (StommePoes) Ug, I would like to see the google photos drag and drop to see if they used role=application to get the spacebar to work with JAWS+IE, but I need to have a whole google setup... is there a more-open version I can just look at?
  26. StommePoes
    12:39
    (StommePoes) @kevinchao89 because no matter what I did, there is no way I could get those keystrokes to pass in JAWS+IE, and only works in NVDA+IE if everyone had a listy role.
  27. MichielBijl
    12:56
    (Michiel) @StommePoes Uhm, you can use mine.
  28. StommePoes
    14:02
    @michielBijl you have a bunch of testfotos as well?
  29. MichielBijl
    14:03
    There are some in there
  30. MichielBijl
    14:03
    You can add more
  31. zakim-robot
    15:01
    [kevinchao89] @StommePoes Yes, role="application" is used for JAWS+IE, so SPACEBAR selects for moving and doesn't fire click event
  32. zakim-robot
    15:13
    [kevinchao89] @marcozehe Thanks for that explanation and solution! Hope role="presentation" on <SVG> can be applied at framework/library level
  33. zakim-robot
    15:18
    [kevinchao89] Yes, learning that aria-label overwriting content in AT/browser combo was an unforgettable experience, but we have figured a solution that works in majority
  34. zakim-robot
    15:43
    [marcozehe] Aaaahhhhh interesting. I am logged in via web UI right now, which is horrid, but anyway, and see that everyone posting from Gitter has their names here in the sender column, but with the addition of "bot", possibly to indicate that those are from an outside source. So, there's definitely another VoiceOver bug here in the iOS app in that such bot/user names aren't read aloud.
  35. StommePoes
    18:39
    (StommePoes) @MarcoZehe @kevinChao89 it's to do with, MichielBijl's name is just some div separate from his text, while those being added via "zakim-robot" have their names inside the chat text in brackets. Since the chat text shows, so does the name. The name outside the chat text is just loose text, and should be some other element and considered the "name" of the following chat text. Not sure if a Heading would be too... overbodig. What's the word
  36. zakim-robot
    18:51
    [marcozehe] @stommepoes: Yeah the way this is done in iOS is slightly different. It's a native control, no imported web content. So the information is presented a little differently. And for some reason, those names coming from the SameRoom service are stripped in the iOS client, but not on the web interface.
  37. jkva
    19:29
    Pff, just added aria attributes to a button, deep deep deep in the bowels of a legacy web application. Knowing no AT can ever get to it... :-/ slow progress
  38. zakim-robot
    20:03
    [kevinchao89] Hope this is progress leading to one day eventually allowing users to get to these a11y improvements you made...
  39. jkva
    20:04
    That's playing the long game, but yeah.
  40. jkva
    20:08
    I figure anything that I add or make changes to, gets done properly
  41. jkva
    20:08
    Feels like drying the floor with a running faucet sometimes.
  42. zakim-robot
    20:29
    [kevinchao89] Curious why it's so deep/barried and why AT can not ever get to it
  43. jkva
    20:30
    Because it's a smelly pile of legacy code
  44. zakim-robot
    20:30
    [kevinchao89] Wonderful analogy and know the feeling
  45. zakim-robot
    20:32
    [kevinchao89] Uphill battle with legacy and best for ground up rewrite. Easier said then done, I know
  46. jkva
    20:33
    Agreed. Although ground-up-rewrite never has budget and risks second system effect :-/
  47. jkva
    20:33
    But lord would I want to
  48. jkva
    20:34
    "This table is not accessible by keyboard." "People still navigate using keyboards?"
  49. jkva
    20:34
    I can't really fault the client. I just try to explain why accessibility is a good thing and why I spend time on it.
  50. zakim-robot
    21:16
    [kevinchao89] Empathy awareness and impact/benefit training always help, but I'm sure you've initiated/tried that
  51. zakim-robot
    23:27
    [kevinchao89] Has there been channel considerations made for Watch OS, TV OS, Android TV, Android Wear, Car Play, Android Auto, etc. #a11y? Any good best practices or recommendations for accessible design and development? Good/bad examples? Thanks!