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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 18th of February 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. ollicle
    Feb 18 00:56
    Hi all, a fresh question:
    I have site navigation rendered in more than one <ul> inside a single <nav>. I lack a meaningful title to use to label them. There are two reasons for separating them:
    1. For emphasis of the “main” navigation
  2. ollicle
    Feb 18 00:56
    1. For display purposes (columns)
  3. ollicle
    Feb 18 00:58
    Seems to me that the semantics of the <ul>s here may be harmful, i.e. the number of links is wrong as it is only provided per arbitrary group – not in total.
  4. ollicle
    Feb 18 01:00
    Can aria help me out here? Specifically would assigning a common label to each <ul> help present them to the tree as a single collection; Or am I better off considering semantically flat <div>s in place of the lists?
  5. ollicle
    Feb 18 01:01
    Thanks in advance for any enlightenment :)
  6. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 01:57
    [karlgroves] IMO <ul> is right here
  7. jnurthen
    Feb 18 02:34
    @Karlgroves not sure I agree. Multiple ULs when they are all logically one list doesn't seem right.
  8. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 02:54
    [fstorr] I don’t think it is, but is it possible to possible to put aria-required=“true” on a fieldset instead of the individual elements in them? It feels like it’s sensible but I’ve yet to find anywhere that says it’s okay.
  9. garcialo
    Feb 18 03:02
    I've always thought it was interesting that people put navigation links in ULs. Does anyone think it be wrong to just have the unlisted links in a nav?
  10. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 03:19

    [karlgroves] >Multiple ULs when they are all logically one list doesn't seem right.

    I may have misread. I envisioned something else altogether.

  11. jnurthen
    Feb 18 03:51
    @garcialo i agree. Just having links in a nav seems like it should be fine to me. Optimally a single list in the nav might be slightly better as AT would give a count of the number of links, but I'm not sure I would waste the energy arguing about it.
  12. garcialo
    Feb 18 03:57
    @jnurthen Yeah, if it weren't an already widely used pattern, I'd probably be against it since I don't naturally think of navigation links as list content.
  13. garcialo
    Feb 18 03:57
    But I totally agree it's not worth arguing about.
  14. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 10:49
    spent $9 on HTML5 for web designers 2nd edition, as I have an interest in HTML5, dissapointed by it.
  15. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 12:00
    Maybe you're not the target audience
  16. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 12:42
    [i-like-robots] Does anybody have any ideas or examples for how to best improve the accessibility of this component? I've worked on improving the autocomplete behaviour - there are many examples for that - but I'm unsure how to convey the state of the currently selected options. http://i-like-robots.github.io/react-tags/
  17. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 12:43
    [i-like-robots] (this is a fork of the original, I plan to submit a PR to the original project with our a11y findings)
  18. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 12:46
    @MichielBijl whoever the target audience is they should be able to expect correct info
  19. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 12:49
    So I'm guessing HTML for Web Designers 2nd Edition does not?
  20. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 12:50
    nope
  21. FionaTG
    Feb 18 12:56
    This may be a bit of a "soft" question, but I've been looking at purchasing a theme for my blog from Thryve: https://thrivethemes.com/
    I've had a play around with their demos and the menu is not keyboard accessible at all. I've contacted their support and they "don't have specific accessibility options".
    Now, I could make that menu keyboard accessible by adding some JavaScript, and the rest of the theme seems pretty accessible.
    Should I though? Should I be giving my money to a company that doesn't care about a11y, but provides all the features I need, features I can't find elsewhere? Bit of an ethical dilemma that I'm stumped by - what have you guys done in similar situations?
  22. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 13:06
    @FionaTG suggest if it's best you can find for what you need, use it and fix up the bad bits, maybe feedback to the theme developer suggested improvements.
  23. garcialo
    Feb 18 13:11
    @FionaTG I assume you've considered the accessibility-ready themes?
  24. FionaTG
    Feb 18 13:11
    @stevefaulkner Yeah I did intend to feed back to them what I'd had to change. I'll do some more research, thanks
  25. FionaTG
    Feb 18 13:12
    @garcialo Thryve is more than just themes though, it's landing pages, email list building etc that I really need. I'm happy with how my site looks right now, it's the features I want
  26. garcialo
    Feb 18 13:14
    Ah, I see
  27. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 13:37
    but do you @garcialo ?
  28. garcialo
    Feb 18 13:46
    I don't! They're all lies! Everything I do is a sham. :cry:
  29. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 14:01
    I knew it!
  30. garcialo
    Feb 18 14:13
    @MichielBijl The secret was bound to get out.
  31. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 14:23
    Could be worse, you could have toilet paper named after you…
  32. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 14:33
    only YOUR toilet paper is named after me @MichielBijl
  33. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 14:34
    I had it imported all the way from Japan
  34. zakim-robot
    Feb 18 15:49
    [ryoia] i have an element that has a role of tabpanel, and i'm manually changing the state of aria-expanded whenever user presses enter key, and the state changes but JAWS only speaks the first time i expand the panel, then stopped staying the changed state. not sure why
  35. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 16:09
    @fstorr excellent test case! indeed looks like a bug with VO suggest filing an issue, I can also ping James Craig about it
  36. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 16:12
    @fstorr https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/700352048131371009
  37. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 16:28
    @ryoia: why do you use aria-expanded on a tabpanel?
  38. fstorr
    Feb 18 17:18
    @stevefaulkner Thanks for the feedback! I'll file an issue about VoiceOver today.
  39. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 17:27
    np
  40. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 18:02
    New Viking and the Lumberjack video live, useless accessibility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hftMLdqOgKs
  41. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 18:02
    Starring LjWatson, stevefaulkner, some Patrick dude, and many more.
  42. fstorr
    Feb 18 18:07
    @stevefaulkner Bug filed: 24722294
  43. stevefaulkner
    Feb 18 18:08
    @fstorr cool!
  44. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 18:52
    Question for @MichielBijl en @StommePoes , would you be willing to criticize my website?
  45. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 18:53
    I think an analysis would be better, but I can spew on it if you want ;)
  46. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 18:53
    ;)
  47. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 18:54
    The new lay-out for All Things Royal is online, and I would like to know how well I did on accessibility. http://www.allthingsroyal.nl/
  48. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 18:55
    I'll have a look tomorrow/this weekend :)
  49. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 18:55
    thanks so much :D really appreciated :D
  50. jnurthen
    Feb 18 19:03
    Why do engineers have to make things 100x more complex than they have to
  51. garcialo
    Feb 18 19:03
    I just tweeted about that very problem.
  52. jnurthen
    Feb 18 19:05
    (speaking as an engineer I like simplicity)
  53. MichielBijl
    Feb 18 19:58
    @sophieschoice, before I test it, which tools did you use to test it?
  54. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 20:05
    AInspector sidebar for Firefox, Lynx
  55. sophieschoice
    Feb 18 20:12
    ALT-attributes for images is something I need to check and correct where it is missing. But that’s something I already knew and I am correcting that step-by-step. It will take a while, unfortunately.