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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 4th of March 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. jkva
    Mar 04 09:31
    When using a section, should its child header element be a direct descendant?
  2. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 09:40
    Don't think so, but it should have a header non-the-less. You can test with accessibility inspector.
  3. StommePoes
    Mar 04 09:48
    Found via Heydon: http://geon.github.io/programming/2016/03/03/dsxyliea
  4. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 09:48
    Yeah that one is great
  5. StommePoes
    Mar 04 09:50
    The one a-hole I have at work is (his single good trait) very pro-a11y and one reason is he and 2 of his kids are very dsxyliek
  6. StommePoes
    Mar 04 09:50
    He'd love this
  7. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 10:09
    great find, @StommePoes !
  8. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 10:16
    [dean] Hey all. I’m doing some remote usability testing with this awesome Canadian kid with CP. He uses his tongue to use his iPad, and is already providing me with great feedback. He wants to be a universal design tester. I have already put him in touch with Simply Accessible - anybody else you think would be useful contacts for him?
  9. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:19
    zomg!
  10. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:20
    knowability has also put together a thing where users can sign up and get paid to do testing as part of a large pool
  11. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:20
    if he (also) wants some cash on the side
  12. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:21
    http://www.maxability.co.in/2016/02/income-opertunity-for-people-with-disabilities/
  13. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:21
    does he use Switch Control with his iPad?
  14. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:21
    or tecla or something else?
  15. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:22
    I also wonder if in general the big names in a11y wouldn't want him on their lists for testing: paciello group, deque, ssbbart, knowability etc
  16. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:22
    Loop11 is already been in the "offer some users who can test your stuff" service for a while, with general users for remote testing
  17. jkva
    Mar 04 10:23
    Neat
  18. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:25
    yeah that maxability site has often such poor spelling but I end up there quite a lot as he posts regularly in a LinkedIn group I'm in with good stuff
  19. jkva
    Mar 04 10:34
    almost CSUN \o/
  20. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 10:37
    [dean] Thanks @StommePoes - I’ll get those links together to share! :simple_smile:
  21. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 10:38
    [dean] I only found out about AccessWorks recently, is that a new development?
  22. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 10:38
    @jkva, you can almost c the sun
  23. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 10:39
    -.-
  24. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 10:39
    [dean] do you non-Slack people get giphys? I want to do a giphy cymbalcrash :wink:
  25. jkva @jkva sics @stevefaulkner on @MichielBijl
  26. stevefaulkner
    Mar 04 10:40
    what's Mitch up to now?
  27. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 10:41
    Making horrible jokes
  28. jkva
    Mar 04 10:41
    The sin of bad puns
  29. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:41
    sinbad punz
  30. jkva
    Mar 04 10:41
    Should've been a contractual clausule against those
  31. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:41
    Yeah the AccessWorks thing seems somewhat new
  32. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 10:44
    Ha, I am going to sign up with Loop11, good to get some experience with testing.
  33. StommePoes
    Mar 04 10:48
    cool!
  34. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 11:12
    Every experience I can get, is good ;)
  35. jkva
    Mar 04 12:23
    http://design.google.com/resizer/
  36. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 12:40
    Anyone here going to Nordic JS?
  37. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 12:40
    @marcysutton, weren't you going to that?
  38. jkva
    Mar 04 12:41
    Gah, that background animation is nauseating
  39. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 12:42
    Ah sorry, didn't visit it.
  40. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 12:43
    Was asking for a friend who wants to meet some a11y/js folk
  41. jkva
    Mar 04 12:43
    Stiff price (500+ EUR) combined with travel, looks out of my price range.
  42. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 12:43
    I'm not going either way…
  43. jkva
    Mar 04 12:44
    And going up north in September, I'll freeze ;)
  44. StommePoes
    Mar 04 14:14
    hey @steveFaulkner you know a Jake Abma?
  45. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 14:24
    [rianrietveld] @jitendra fixed the links, thanks for noticing. We are rewriting the A11y documentation at the moment, so links may get broken now and then. We have quite a bit to do still :nail_care:
  46. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 14:24
    [rianrietveld] https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility/handbook/
  47. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 14:25
    :+1:
  48. StommePoes
    Mar 04 14:38
    ++
  49. StommePoes @StommePoes waves at Rian
  50. stevefaulkner
    Mar 04 14:53
    What happens when the lang attribute is set incorrectly? https://youtu.be/0uzxu9dQnuU
  51. jkva
    Mar 04 14:54
    ayyyy nos bueno
  52. garcialo
    Mar 04 14:54
    :+1: for choice of example.
  53. jkva
    Mar 04 14:54
    That German one has me in stitches
  54. stevefaulkner
    Mar 04 14:55
    yeah
  55. jkva
    Mar 04 14:55
    What the?! Youtube autoplay autoplays https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2aRM3AfP60
  56. jkva
    Mar 04 14:55
    Why?!
  57. jkva
    Mar 04 14:55
    Bizarre.
  58. jkva
    Mar 04 14:55
    alt="some youtube video about some religious conference"
  59. jkva
    Mar 04 14:56
    I should forward that one to @Heydon
  60. jkva
    Mar 04 14:56
    How Youtube suggests I watch that... I guess it correlated JAWS with JIMAS?
  61. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 14:57
    @stevefaulkner I get reminded of 'Allo 'Allo when I see that video :P
  62. jkva
    Mar 04 14:57
    "Worshipping Our Lord Tim Berners-Lee"
  63. stevefaulkner
    Mar 04 15:03
    :-)
  64. pkra
    Mar 04 15:04
    Quick question, Slackers, on screenreader "read all" modes (read line / paragraph etc).
  65. pkra
    Mar 04 15:04
    Do any ATs have a shortcut for something like "put focus on last focusable element you read out to me"?
  66. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:05
    @pkra Pretty sure not.
  67. pkra
    Mar 04 15:06
    @garcialo hm, thanks. Any particular reason or "just" experience? (I vaguely remember stumbling over something like it for at least one AT but couldn't find it again.)
  68. pkra
    Mar 04 15:07
    (with "just" I mean: probably infinitely more than I have :smile: )
  69. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:07
    @pkra There are commands for announcing current row/column/line...but nothing related to focus, I don't think.
  70. pkra
    Mar 04 15:09
    @garcialo thanks! Darn... I thought at least for some things like anchors (not that that would help me).
  71. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:09
    I'm not seeing anything in the key commands WebAIM has up that seems close.
  72. pkra
    Mar 04 15:10
    @garcialo thanks again. Yes, I looked there, too. It's hard to provide an active application for inline content :)
  73. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:11
    What is it you're trying to accomplish?
  74. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:11
    What's the use case?
  75. pkra
    Mar 04 15:13
    @garcialo We're building a math accessibility solution that allows full navigation/exploration of an equation (i.e., navigate subexpression, get the corresponding speech text in a live region, highlighting etc).
  76. pkra
    Mar 04 15:15
    but for "read all" etc I'm wondering how people could jump in. It's one thing to put speech text in a label / labeledby but those tend to be very long (which is why navigation is so important). So I'm thinking about how a regular reader would / could jump from "read all" to the (focusable) equation and start the tool should they want to.
  77. pkra
    Mar 04 15:16
    not the most usual use case, I reckon.
  78. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:17
    Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the equation part of it.
  79. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:17
    I imagine there'd be multiple equations on one page; even if just sub-parts of a larger equation?
  80. pkra
    Mar 04 15:20
    Yup. Want a demo?
  81. pkra
    Mar 04 15:20
    It's all open source.
  82. pkra
    Mar 04 15:21
    Here's something for just one equation (there are a few samples in a drop-down menu) https://mathjax.github.io/MathJax-RespEq/Semantics-Lab/walker/
  83. garcialo
    Mar 04 15:21
    Sure...but I just pulled into a meeting, so I'll check back with you after.
  84. pkra
    Mar 04 15:22
    create an equation , tab to it, hit shift+space.
  85. pkra
    Mar 04 15:22
    Np.
  86. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:23
    Can someone help me understand how a video description track should work? Should a blind user have the normal audio of the video playing, while also having the audio describing what is going on in the video? Are they really supposed to listen to two audio tracks simultaneously to understand what is going on?
  87. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:26
    It accord to me that the popular video players out there do allow you to supply tracks, but these are always treated like closed captioning and don't make sense to include the descriptions. For them they need to be added as children of the <video> tags manually it seems. But I want to make sure I understand that right before I proceed.
  88. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 15:30
    [kevinchao89] http://youdescribe.org/search.php
  89. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:33
    All those videos fail to load when I try to play them =/
  90. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:35
    okay, loads in Chrome, not Firefox
  91. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 15:36
    [cameron] @powrsurg: here’s a playlist of audio described videos, for reference https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4wpa1QsAPiJfQC2xA_InY02LpFufintz
  92. stevefaulkner
    Mar 04 15:36
    @powrsurg probably because latest FF does not have flash installed by default
  93. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:41
    yeah, but I have Flash installed (sadly a lot of my industry that has updated their content creation tools took the approach to detect ios -- and only sometimes android -- to send an html5 version and then do flash to anyone else. It's gotten better in recent years but people haven't updated their old courses)
  94. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:42
    YouDescribe seems more difficult. That video looks nice though
  95. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:45
    Thank you :)
  96. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 15:48
    @powrsurg just set UA string to iOS =P
  97. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:50
    I do that for testing some. But that's mostly another department that takes care of our course creation stuff. My department does everything else ... and we do go HTML5 first and flash fallbacks since we support IE8-9 still
  98. powrsurg
    Mar 04 15:52
    ... and that playlist now made me want to watch The Interviewer
  99. jonathantneal
    Mar 04 19:25
    @MichielBijl, I haven’t been able to stop thinking about an expanded size property since I think I saw your message on one of my postcss plugins and then followed the specifiction thread. That was you, right?
  100. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 19:30
    Sounds like me, I'm a supporter of a CSS size property.
  101. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 19:30
    Have been ever since it was in reboot.
  102. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 19:30
    Preboot*
  103. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 19:35
    I think that was added somewhere in 2011.
  104. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:53
    Am I going nuts?
  105. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:53
    I thought a <header> element only got a banner role/landmark role when it's scoped to body, or article
  106. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:53
    and maybe some others sectioners
  107. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:54
    but if you randomly sprinkled <header>s everywhere, they wouldn't all get landmark roles
  108. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:54
    am I right or nuts?
  109. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:54
    or is this part of what the spec is changing to?
  110. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:54
    I just went through Pearson's "Accessibility in HTML" or whatever it's called, and it took great pains to state how header and footer only sometimes had roles
  111. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:54
    as in, cookies are a sometimes food.
  112. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:55
    Someone on Twitter who's a real accessibility expert (I trust him) is saying otherwise, so I doubt myself now
  113. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 19:56
    banner role/landmark role can be only assigned once, as far as I know.
  114. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:57
    per document
  115. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:57
    not sure about articles
  116. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:58
    I thought the whole syndication possibilties were why an article for example could have its own header and footer with meaning, as supposedly another website could take that as a unit and place it elsewhere.
  117. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:58
    ...
  118. StommePoes
    Mar 04 19:58
    But that surely if I just had some page, no articles or anything, and threw <header>s around, they wouldn't all get the banner role... would they?
  119. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 19:59
    no, as far as I understood the banner role.
  120. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 19:59
    You use it once, to indicate the region with the logo and the name of the site
  121. sophieschoice
    Mar 04 20:00
    an article or section can have headers and footers of it's own, but they don't get that role assigned
  122. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:02
    in an other note, I wish nos.nl had captions and non-retarded keyboard nav
  123. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:03
    feyenoord video ++... no captions, --
  124. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:04
    @StommePoes, that is what the spec is changing to.
  125. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:04
    But I think the only real change is that does not get banner in main anymore. All others are already in the spec as at as I know.
  126. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:05
    ok, so the tweeter is not correct in this instance
  127. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:05
    (he says doing <header><h2>foo</h2><header> everywhere is bad for accessibility, instead of just a waste of typing)
  128. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:05
    or maybe it is, today?
  129. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:05
    but won't be, tomorrow?
  130. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:19
    Hm, I've not tested myself. He says regardless of the spec, headers are generally announced as landmarks whether they really are or not.
  131. StommePoes
    Mar 04 20:19
    and the training we have at work says the same thing about footer/complementary
  132. sophieschoice @sophieschoice is getting a bit confused now, heh
  133. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:21
    @StommePoes, will test after take off.
  134. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:21
    And I'll tell you when I land :P Or get jkva to test it.
  135. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:22
    Actually. I think VO does the right thing.
  136. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 20:24
    Could've sworn I tested this last week. Anyway, I'll get back to you.
  137. jnurthen
    Mar 04 20:46
    Should be in the HTML Accessibility API doc
  138. jnurthen
    Mar 04 20:46
    https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/#el-header
  139. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:02
    Question on aria-sort. the spec says "For each table or grid, authors SHOULD apply aria-sort to only one header at a time." Does this mean that only one header should have aria-sort despite the value or does it mean only one SHOULD be true at a time.
  140. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:03
    I disagree with that whatever the meaning
  141. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:03
    I'll log an issue
  142. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:04
    so then, it's fine for two columns say they sorted by them?
  143. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:04
    it should be - according to the spec it is not
  144. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:04
    pretty common to have a primary, secondary and even tertiary sort
  145. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:05
    yeah, how do you communicate which is which?
  146. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:05
    good question. I'm assuming it is not that important as visually you normally just put sort arrows on all of them
  147. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:06
    so if we are not exposing which is which visually then exposing this to AT would be weird.
  148. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:06
    yes, but if you have multiple "ascending" columns without that differentiation...
  149. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:07
    but isn't that the same experience a user gets visually? if there are just arrows on multiple columns?
  150. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:07
    I mean, other than doing it manually
  151. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:07
    assuming there are visual arrows saying that they're each sorted
  152. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:07
    ...as opposed to non-visual arrows
  153. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:08
    ah - those pesky non-visual arrows
  154. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:10
    I guess we could just mention it in the caption (sorted by X and then Y)
  155. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:13
    sounds more like summary to me :scream_cat:
  156. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:14
    Excel doesn't even show it when you do a sort
  157. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:15
    well, I don't want to suggest willy nilly table sort communication
  158. jnurthen
    Mar 04 21:16
    w3c/aria#283
  159. garcialo
    Mar 04 21:17
    :+1:
  160. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 22:44
    @StommahPoos, header and footer are exposed as banner and contentinfo if inside main: http://dir.rawr.eu/research/header-footer-aam.html
  161. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 22:52
    @StommePoes.
  162. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:06
    jnurthen: kids in bed yet?
  163. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:07
    LOL not home from school yet
  164. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:07
    What time zone are you in anyway?
  165. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:07
    PST
  166. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:07
    -9 for you i think
  167. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:08
    Ah, yeah that makes sense then :P
  168. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:08
    So 15:08 at your place?
  169. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:08
    that is right
  170. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:08
    [ryoia] MichielBijl are you in europe?
  171. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:08
    Yeap
  172. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:09
    On my way to Oxford now.
  173. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:09
    [ryoia] nobody here uses 15:08 :stuck_out_tongue:
  174. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:09
    @ryoia I do
  175. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:09
    Beating James' being in Britain record.
  176. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:09
    [ryoia] i do too but, it's rare
  177. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:09
    but I'm British so I have an excuse
  178. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:09
    [ryoia] that's cheating
  179. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:10
    ryoia, so you must be American?
  180. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:10
    i set all my clocks to 24h to confuse visitors
  181. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:10
    [ryoia] i use 24-hour clock so...go figure!
  182. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:10
    Haha
  183. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:10
    So no?
  184. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:10
    Stop confusing me :P
  185. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:10
    [ryoia] but i do use feet instead of meters
  186. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:10
    [ryoia] i mean i know meters too
  187. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:10
    -.-
  188. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:11
    I use feet too, but only to walk; that's what they're for
  189. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:11
    [ryoia] i'm in the us
  190. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:11
    [ryoia] LOL
  191. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:11
    [ryoia] good one
  192. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:11
    [nathanhammond] Is anybody from Mozilla around? We've found weird behavior that showed up between FF41 and FF44.
  193. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:12
    not sure here - i would ping their IRC
  194. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:12
    Marco Zehe is here
  195. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:12
    Not sure he's here now though, but he is on Slack anyway…
  196. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:12
    [nathanhammond] Okidoke.
  197. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:13
    Of course, who to contact totally depends on what the weird thing is ;)
  198. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:13
    [nathanhammond] nathanhammond/ember-a11y#3
  199. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:13
    normally get good response at irc.mozilla.org
  200. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:14
    10/10 would file bugs again
  201. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:14
    #accessibility
  202. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:15
    Nice try James
  203. jnurthen @jnurthen got it in the end
  204. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:16
    but FF and VO isn't a happy combo
  205. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:16
    That's not supported on either end AFAIK.
  206. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:16
    Certainly not on the VO side.
  207. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:17
    yeah - if someone logged that on me I'd close it as invalid and tell em to use something which works a little better
  208. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:17
    ..... like anything
  209. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:17
    Same.
  210. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:18
    Firefox doesn't expose anything to IA2 if I recall correctly.
  211. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:18
    I don't have time to fix bugs on platforms which don't even try.
  212. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:18
    (although sometimes these days I feel like that with Safari on iOS w/ VO)
  213. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:20
    alt=accessibility inspector shows AXWindow as accessibilityRole for the entire Firefox window on OS X. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2Q7JFe5Q/Screen%20Shot%202016-03-05%20at%2000.19.29.png
  214. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:21
    So, no matter what you point the mouse at, it just gives you AXWindow…
  215. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:36
    There should be an app to easily change time zones on the Mac
  216. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:38
    er.... it does it for you right when you connect to the internet
  217. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:40
    Except when it cannot determine your location.
  218. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:40
    Which is like always -.-
  219. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:40
    ahhh - privacy and all right?
  220. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:40
    Maybe it's because I'm on the bus Wi-Fi and it can't find any other AP's.
  221. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:40
    Not sure actually. I'll check. Don't think I have it disabled.
  222. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:41
    but what timezone are you actually in?
  223. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:41
    it is like when you are on a plane.... what should it set it to?
  224. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:41
    I'm now in GMT. When I
  225. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:41
    I'm on the plane I don't care so much.
  226. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:42
    drink some good beer while you are there
  227. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:42
    Just an annoyance when you're in the bus/train/whatever and want to keep track of your arrival time.
  228. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:42
    We've been buying backs :P
  229. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:42
    Becks*
  230. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:43
    And Leffe in the Netherlands. Or Gulpner, I like Gulpner.
  231. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:43
    Not sure what they have in the supermarket here. I'll check tomorrow.
  232. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:44
    By the way, the reason I asked for you, was I'm working on Léonie's landmark proposal thing.
  233. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:44
    And I want to get the landmark roles into the TOC.
  234. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:44
    So I'll mark those up as headings.
  235. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:45
    But to me, it then makes no sense to put the other information into a table.
  236. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:45
    And want to mark those up with moar headings.
  237. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:46
    I think Jon might have taken some of her suggestions on board with his version.... I think they might be merging into 1 which was my hope
  238. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:46
    So:
  239. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:47
    Yeah I can have a look at Jon's, but Léonie did a complete rewrite. So I don't know if that would make sense.
  240. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:47
    Although it would crappy to disregard either one completely.
  241. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:47
    I think we can take bits of both
  242. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:48
    and make everyone happy
  243. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:48
    Anyway: 
    <h3>Landmark roles</h3>  <p>There are landmark roles that identify common content features.</p>  <h4>main role</h4> <p>…</p> <h5>Element</h5> <p>…</p> <h5>Notes</h5> <p>…</p>
  244. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:49
    That's what I had in mind.
  245. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:49
    Or would that unnecessarily cutter the TOC?
  246. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:49
    I'm not sure level 5 would get into the TOC.
  247. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:49
    i have no idea what it does...
  248. MichielBijl
    Mar 04 23:49
    I'll test it somewhere this weekend.
  249. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:50
    Why not keep the structure of Jons one but just move the html5 guff to the table
  250. jnurthen
    Mar 04 23:52
    so section 2.2 essentially becomes the 2.3.x section of Jons draft but remove the HTML5 stuff
  251. zakim-robot
    Mar 04 23:57
    [nathanhammond] @jnurthen @michielbijl I'm building tools for the entire Ember ecosystem, not just one product, so the ROI is worth it even on ... subpar combinations.