A11y Slacker archive 2016-03-10

zakim-robot
Mar 10 00:01

[cordelia] alas no!
zakim-robot
Mar 10 00:02

[cordelia] wish i could go since it seems relevant to a lot of the stuff i’m working on
jnurthen
Mar 10 00:03

yeah - hopefully it will have something new - although I imagine we are probably doing most of the stuff. Hopefully will cover how to solve this in iOS as focus is just so hard there
zakim-robot
Mar 10 00:09

[cordelia] hoping people take notes! sad to miss it
jnurthen
Mar 10 00:10

I'll try... I normally take photos of the slides if they don't post the presentation. I can post them somewhere if you like
zakim-robot
Mar 10 00:25

[cordelia] Thanks! If you do take photos, I’d love to see them, but no worries if not. I’m sure there will be some live-tweets from attendees, too.
jnurthen
Mar 10 00:29

I always feel bad live tweeting as I'm too slow on my phone.
zakim-robot
Mar 10 01:30

[cordelia] I often feel like me tapping away at my phone appears rude. I wish I could tell the presenter, “Don’t worry, I’m not bored and checking Facebook! I’m actually taking notes!"
garcialo
Mar 10 01:55

I know that I never notice if people are using their phones while I present.
garcialo
Mar 10 01:55

...maybe I should say things that are more interesting =p
fstorr
Mar 10 05:37

@stevefaulkner Hi. Question about the HTML 5 and 5.1 spec for alt text on images and the <meter> element: In "A group of images that form a single larger picture with no links" (https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-no-links) there's an example of images nested inside a <meter> element. The images showing and the browser-rendered bar isn't. In testing, that doesn't seem to be possible to achieve. Can I Use suggests that there aren't any known issues where it's implemented (http://caniuse.com/#feat=meter) so is the example incorrect or am I missing something? Thanks.
MichielBijl
Mar 10 08:12

What is the question?
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 11:28

@fstorr thanks for the feedback, the example is wrong as it does not work as expected, am fixing in 5.1 editors draft will be available at http://w3c.github.io/html/semantics-embedded-content.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-no-links a bit later today
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 11:34

@fstorr there we go w3c/html@328c076
zakim-robot
Mar 10 12:13

[i-like-robots] Sorry for repost, not sure if I got the correct channel (first posted in @aria-patterns). Would appreciate any views =] https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/aria-patterns/p1457533290000062
fstorr
Mar 10 14:22

@stevefaulkner Excellent. Thanks :)
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 14:24

@fstorr thank you for pointing out the issue :clap:
garcialo
Mar 10 14:24

@stevefaulkner The editor's draft is a bit old imo, can you link to your local copy?
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 14:24

ha ha @garcialo
MichielBijl
Mar 10 14:25

C:
MichielBijl
Mar 10 14:25

@garcialo: C:\users\StephanFaulkner\Documents\w3c\html\
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:47

@i-like-robots can you post here? My employer blocks slack but gitter is ok (this channel gets mirrored to gitter)
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:50

@jnurthen just do the IRC thing :P
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:50

?? how do i get aria-patterns channel on IRC?
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:50

You can connect to Slack via IRC>
garcialo
Mar 10 16:51

Yes
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:51

but i can't access anything in slack.com domain. firewall blocks it.
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:51

how would that help?
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:51

https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connecting-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:51

Ah
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:52

Then that won't help you.
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:52

You can use irccloud.com if that isn't blocked, but that is a paid service.
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:54

don't want to spend money to access a channel with very few posts.
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:54

(I presume!)
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:54

i can access on my phone but that is not optimal
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:54

@MichielBijl thought you were on a plane?
MichielBijl
Mar 10 16:55

I will be in a bit.
zakim-robot
Mar 10 16:55

[i-like-robots] @jnurthen sure!

We have a revealing content pattern. The first paragraph of a piece of content is displayed and a toggle button is placed after it. Expanding the toggle loads the remainder of the content. Neither the first paragraph nor button are affected, the button stays below the content. I have created a demo of this here: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/jqqZex
zakim-robot
Mar 10 16:55

[i-like-robots] > By default focus remains on the button, but we feel this is confusing when the new content is loaded before it - so you must navigate backwards to find it. Is it best to leave the focus as-is, or, programatically shift it to the region where the content has been inserted? Is the aria-controls attribute enough?
jnurthen
Mar 10 16:57

IMO aria-controls is enough although I'm not sure why you have the toggle button after the content. Seems backwards to me.
zakim-robot
Mar 10 16:58

[i-like-robots] I think it's a little backwards too, not my decision... though I suppose it may also be strange to have the button between the paragraphs of text.
jnurthen
Mar 10 17:00

I can't think of a great solution for everyone with the contraints of this design pattern
jnurthen
Mar 10 17:00

also some of the decisions would depend on the amount of content inserted. If it is enough to make the content start off the screen then that is going to be really weird
jnurthen
Mar 10 17:01

personally I'd fight the pattern with my UX designers and point out that it sucks :)
jnurthen
Mar 10 17:10

if you move focus it is probably better for screen reader users but is bad for keyboard users who may want to expand and then collapse once they have read it. And if you move focus that could be very jarring for other users.... @StommePoes this sounds like it would be bad for magnifier users.
zakim-robot
Mar 10 17:11

[poorgeek] that’s an odd pattern. is there really an expectation that the user would hide the content after it was displayed?
zakim-robot
Mar 10 17:13

[poorgeek] it seems to act more like a teaser where you have an intro paragraph and if you want to see more/pay for more, then you have to trigger a request
zakim-robot
Mar 10 17:13

[melsumner] Think of the "read more" kind of buttons on news sites
zakim-robot
Mar 10 17:13

[melsumner] They don't leave the button after you click it
tobyrush
Mar 10 19:53

Hello, everyone... I'm a newcomer, referred here from someone at /r/webaccess on Reddit. I'm working on a canvas-centric site and I'm trying to build in the best WAI-ARIA support I can. Is there a forum where I can post the site and get some feedback on what I can do to improve compatibility? I'm happy to post it here, but I didn't want to waste anyone's time... :)
zakim-robot
Mar 10 19:55

[deborah_kaplan] here, or the mailing list at webaim.org often gets takers.
tobyrush
Mar 10 20:02

Thanks, Deborah. The site is http://tobyrush.com/bmn. The main page, http://tobyrush.com/braillemusic/notator/notator.html, is comprised primary of two large canvases, but I have a hidden <div> used to hold text for screenreaders.
tobyrush
Mar 10 20:04

One of the problems I have is that there is also a hidden text field used to make copy-paste operations work, and on the Mac at least the VoiceOver "cursor" gets stuck in that field. I'm not sure if there's a way around that, or if I need to find some other way to deal with copy-paste in Javascript.
tobyrush
Mar 10 20:06

I've got sick kids to tend to right now but I'll check back in periodically if anyone has the time or interest to take a look. Thanks in advance!
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:19

can you display:none your hidden clipboard or does that break its functionality?
MichielBijl
Mar 10 20:25

@jnurthen: is that a general question or targeted at someone?
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:26

sorry was @tobyrush
MichielBijl
Mar 10 20:26

Okay :)
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:26

but if you can answer it go ahead!
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:26

I am hungry so need to go get some lunch
MichielBijl
Mar 10 20:27

Haven't looked at that website and have work to do, so no.
MichielBijl
Mar 10 20:27

Enjoy your lunch ;)
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:27

you have work?
jnurthen
Mar 10 20:27

;)
zakim-robot
Mar 10 20:30

[cordelia] @tobyrush, doesn’t that field have aria-hidden=“true” on it?
sophieschoice
Mar 10 20:40

Question for the Dutchies: are there any standardized analysis, report or test templates in Dutch that should be used when starting/reporting usability or accessibility tests? Or is it up to you?
sophieschoice
Mar 10 20:41

I mean: is it up to you to come up with templates yourself for reports?
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:43

Sorry, all, the sick kids kept me away longer than I had planned. @jnurthen, display:none doesn't break the functionality and that looks like it may have solved it. I should have known it was something so simple!
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:44

sick kids have a habit of doing that. Hope they feel better soon
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:44

@cordelia, the clipboard field does have aria-hidden="true", because it's behind-the-scenes functionality and I want it hidden from the screenreader interface. Should I not have it on there?
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:45

aria-hidden should have done what you wanted.... with display:none it is redundant and you can remove it.
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:45

Thanks, @jnurthen. This bug has bounced around our whole family and we're looking forward to being done with it
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:45

why it didn't work with VO is a mystery only apple can answer :)
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:45

I'll take it out then. Thanks so much:)
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:46

btw the app looks cool but I had difficulty using it with JAWS and FF.
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:46

Ha! I wondered if VO might be to blame :D
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:46

For example - how to get to the menus?
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:46

I had tested with JAWS a while back but haven't lately.
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:47

Everything should be available through keyboard commands, I have a list in the documentation, but I should probably make it more obvious.
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:48

I see that now I look for it.
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:48

Thanks for the kind words. Another thing I'd like to add is compatibility with a refreshable braille display... which I would want to display something different than the screenreader would present. I'd want the RBD to show the current line of braille rather than a description.
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:49

My amateur understanding is that I would use the same field, and have a user setting to switch to RBD mode. But is there a standard way to provide both interfaces at once?
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:50

Nothing is showin in the JAWS braille viewer. It emulates a RFD
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:50

RBD
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:50

Ah I hadn't thought of that! That will be a lot cheaper than buying a RBD to test with :)
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:51

yeah RBD's are really expensive
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:52

live region announcements don't tend to be in the braille output so I have no idea how that is going to work
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:52

I haven't done much research on it so I'm sure I can look it up but is it because my div has id="screenreader"? Is there an id for RBD?
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:52

very interesting app though
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:52

no - not as far as I'm aware. they tend to use the virtual buffer (i think but I'm not totally sure what they really do) and you don't have anything in that
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:53

thanks. Really the app is designed for sighted musicians primarily, since braille music is not that hard to understand and can make a huge difference in teaching a student with visual impairments
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:53

Ah ok. I can look into it more. Haven't invested a ton of time in it just yet
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:53

did you consider using a shadow dom for the canvas instead?
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:54

Hmm... I hadn't. That's an interesting idea
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:54

I'll admit I've learned most of this by poking around so I'm sure there's a lot more I could be doing better
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:55

I'm no expert on shadow doms but someone here I'm sure is
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:55

I've never used one but I've read about them. I'd be interested to try it out
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:57

Thanks again for your help. I'm going to sign off but I'm sure I'll be back with more questions later :)
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:58

good luck
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 22:58

@tobyrush explainer on canvas sub DOM https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/02/html5-canvas-sub-dom/
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:58

thanks Steve!
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:58

@stevefaulkner I knew someone would come through with more info
stevefaulkner
Mar 10 22:58

🖖
jnurthen
Mar 10 22:59

i forget they call them sub dom now :)
tobyrush
Mar 10 22:59

:)

Gitter Channel Archive 10th of March 2016