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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 18th of March 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 03:45
    [hmig] @ellyjones: I filed a bug w/microsoft for the <desc> being ignored: https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/Feedback/Details/2483564
  2. jkva
    Mar 18 08:24
    o/
  3. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 09:08
    \o
  4. StommePoes
    Mar 18 11:38
    comments open til 14 april https://www.w3.org/TR/low-vision-needs/
  5. StommePoes
    Mar 18 11:38
    I hope to read this tonight or on the plane
  6. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 12:31
    Can you print a copy so we can make notes?
  7. StommePoes
    Mar 18 12:34
    good idea
  8. StommePoes
    Mar 18 12:37
    28 pages
  9. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 13:21
    [elisa] Please bear with me, I'm still relatively new to the world of accessibility and looking to help my team. Would anyone be able to offer general feedback on VPAT for a native mobile app? Should this be any different than one for a site or web app?
  10. sophieschoice
    Mar 18 13:43
    @jnurthen , Yeah I thought as much. I am looking for a timeline script or a ‘today in history/this day in history’ script that will be accessible.
  11. sophieschoice
    Mar 18 13:43
    BTW, everyone who is going to attend CSUN: I hope everyone has or will have a great flight!
  12. jkva
    Mar 18 13:46
    @sophieschoice: thanks! :plus1:
  13. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:08
    maybe @karlGroves knows an answer to @elisa's question... so far, I've successfully been able to avoid VPATs. Though off-hand, I can't think of any reason one would be different for sites/apps-- those can be considered products.
  14. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:14
    @karlgroves: thank you for that. It's very appreciated. Going to be comparing that with what we wrote up hopefully soon (we just got flooded with being charged with writing up about 16 more major documents like that so it'll be good to get at least one of them correct)
  15. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:22
    VPATs can be made for sites/apps
  16. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:22
    there are different (but very similar) checks for each
  17. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:24
    http://www.state.gov/m/irm/impact/126343.htm
  18. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:24
    The summary table explains all the different parts. 1194.11 for Software Applications and OSs; 1194.22 for Web; and then others for other stuff
  19. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:25
    Oh, sorry...should have pinged @elisa
  20. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:25
    cool resource... are VPATs a US thing only?
  21. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:25
    yes
  22. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:25
    they're specifically for conformance to Section 508
  23. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:26
    oh
  24. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:26
    gov't agencies are currently the only ones explicitly required by US law to be accessible
  25. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:26
    so you'll find a lot of US a11y folk come from a gov't background
  26. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:26
    I used to be the digital a11y person at one of the larger universities in the US...I processed way more VPATs than I cared to
  27. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:27
    if someone at my university wanted to get software, the vendor had to essentially provide evidence of a11y
  28. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:27
    one method was a VPAT...there were other methods, but VPATs are the quickest to process
  29. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:28
    since I didn't have to assess the app/site/etc. somewhat on my own
  30. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:28
    They sound a bit make-work-y though... I get mails from other parts of my company where the rep says "well the vendor says it's all accessible, but we want an a11y opinion" and then yeah, turns out the vendor was really really wrong on big things.
  31. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:29
    yeah, parts of analyzing the VPAT is looking for things that don't look right
  32. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:29
    [poorgeek] that happens A LOT
  33. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:29
    like if everything passes; that's kind of a red flag
  34. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:29
    [poorgeek] most of the time, VPATs aren’t updated between minor revisions, only major, so they quickly get out of date
  35. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:30
    for a good app and a good VPAT, you'll see a lot of Supports with Exceptions
  36. garcialo @garcialo nods in agreement with @poorgeek
  37. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:31
    sometimes the people filling out the VPAT have no idea about a11y and it'll be obvious from their notes that they don't know what they're doing
  38. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:31
    [deborah_kaplan] right, my rule is that is a VPAT gives a perfect or nigh perfect score, then the person who wrote it knows nothing
  39. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:31
    [deborah_kaplan] when I create them, it's practically a wlist of tickets -- in fact, I generate tickets as I create the VPAT
  40. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:31
    yup
  41. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:32
    [deborah_kaplan] and if I see a richly filled out VPAT with a ton of detailed 'supports with exceptions' or 'does not support', I'm more likely to trust that product,
  42. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:32
    I haven't seen how our final VPAT output came out. I wonder if some of the higher ups were hesitant in acknowledging issues.
  43. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:32
    and I would also use that language to try and get language put into the contracts that said issues from the VPAT would need to be fixed; maybe look at the site/app if I had access to it and prioritize based on the issues
  44. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:32
    [deborah_kaplan] because it means they know the problems and are more likely to be fixing them.
  45. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:32
    [deborah_kaplan] goodness, yes!
  46. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:33
    er...use the VPAT to try and get language put in the contracts
  47. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:33
    [poorgeek] reading a VPAT is like reading a dating portfolio, you know that almost everyone is lying about something, you just have to figure out what
  48. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:33
    my favorite VPAT was a PDF of a Xeroxed VPAT...it was slightly off center and had those photocopy dark stripes
  49. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:34
    [deborah_kaplan] Having now been on both sides -- the purchaser in a couple of midsize US universities, and the vendor producing the software -- I can say that the best thing the purchaser can do is insist on fixes, or mention accessibility if they do an RFC and go with a different vendor
  50. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:34
    @poorgeek excellent analogy =)
  51. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:34
    that said, there were some excellent VPATs
  52. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:34
    and I would always give praise on those because they were rare
  53. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:34
    [deborah_kaplan] our developers WANT to fix the bugs, but higher ups demand ROI; customers tying VPATs or other accessibility metrics to contracts give us the ability to make it happen.
  54. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:35
    [deborah_kaplan] garcialo++
  55. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:36
    The most annoying ones were the VPATs where they just gave us a link that went to the site with tons of VPATs for all the various products they had and expected me to find the appropriate one for the product.
  56. garcialo @garcialo looks sideways at @jnurthen without any implication whatsoever.
  57. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:37
    usually large companies would do that, but I don't name names
  58. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:37
    In VPATs that you've seen do they discuss third-party libraries that a site may use that has issues? In general with things we've done most of our stuff is actually fairly good (color contrasts, keyboard accessibility, etc), with the part I'm sketchy on the most is screen reader support since we've only done testing primarily in NVDA and some ChromeVox and VoiceOver. Not having a JAWS license has made me a little worried. That said, some of our third-party libraries that we use have issues and I've been trying to get them either replaced, or updated.
  59. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:38
    that is something I would want called out if there were issues with it
  60. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:38
    I've yet to see a truly good, accessible JS calendar for example
  61. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:39
    like if OUR site is accessible, but a widget we're important isn't, I would say Supports with Exceptions and list that the content imported has some issues and changes without our input, etc.
  62. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:39
    [deborah_kaplan] powrsurg: I definitely discuss all the site functionality, even if it comes from libraries, because that's part of the site
  63. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:39
    that said, someone decided this content needed to be on the site
  64. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:40
    ugh...way too early "a widget we're importing"...not important
  65. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:40
    [deborah_kaplan] But sometimes I say something like 'All our images have meaningful alt, but our vendor-provided content [on an online book platform where we provide the app but no content] rarely does."
  66. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:40
    yeah, that makes sense
  67. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:41
    I felt weird answering a 508 response on contrast where the question's language was basically "will not change the user's defined colors or contrast settings" when I said the only place we do that is a detection for Windows High Contrast mode for one area where our SVG charts were not having colors changed properly so they were unreadable. We were detecting the contrast setting to make them readable again. That made it more accessible but violated the specific language of the point
  68. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:41
    yeah, I #hate508
  69. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:41
    hm, technically you were ensureing the user's defined colours would also aplpy to SVG
  70. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:41
    Would fill: currentColor have worked?
  71. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:41
    without needing detection etc?
  72. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:42
    where the fill (or whatever) will minic whatever the text does, even in response to WHC?
  73. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:42
    Something I stumbled upon a while back and did check a website using currentColor on an SVG and in WHC, it was indeed the same colour as the text
  74. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:42
    I'm honestly not sure. That was my first time with dealing with either SVG or WHC.
  75. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:45
    I wasn't sure how to approach aspects of our site where we provide mechanisms for an admin to upload content that is displayed to their users. We let them set alt text on images, captions and audio descriptions on videos ... but I doubt most admins will actually fill in that information.
  76. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:47
    Yeah, that's on the content creator
  77. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:48
    If I saw that as "Supports with Exceptions" with notes about "there are places where the admins can omit or set inappropriate alt text" I would be satisfied
  78. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:49
    because the devs can't be expected to know all those contexts
  79. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:49
    ...well, I guess they could..but I wouldn't look at it with that much detail
  80. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 14:49
    [poorgeek] we’ve put some checks on that type of metadata before. Specially if they upload an image and don’t want alt text, then they have to explicitly check a box saying that the image will be described by the content on the page.
  81. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:50
    A dev could make that stuff required (potentially), but it makes it a lot more difficult for the admin who may be able to add that info later. I can see an admin making a video recording and want to get it up before they have captions done
  82. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:51
    yeah
  83. powrsurg
    Mar 18 14:51
    Imagine if YouTube required captions to upload a video
  84. garcialo
    Mar 18 14:51
    there would be an uprising
  85. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:52
    there could be more of this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kat-blaque/why-i-started-captioning-_b_9035760.html
  86. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:52
    She was like most people: "I'm just one person, not some whole studio or company or anything"
  87. StommePoes
    Mar 18 14:52
    although, due to her popularity, she had lots of people practically begging to caption her stuff for her
  88. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 16:56
    [elisa] @garcialo: thank you - i apologize for not responding earlier, but was in some meetings. I forwarded some of the responses over :simple_smile:
  89. garcialo
    Mar 18 16:56
    @elisa No problem; glad to help.
  90. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:05
    powersurg: Imagine if YouTube required captions to upload a video
  91. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:05
    Imagine if Twitter even allowed for alt text, let alone require it
  92. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:05
    At least YouTube offers the option…
  93. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:05
    Not sure what Google+ does, as I don't really use that.
  94. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:07
    well you don't work for google so of course you don't use google+
  95. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:08
    I don't work for google but people keep trying to make me use google+
  96. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:09
    so far I haven't but I think I automatically have an account because All Your Googles Are Belong To US
  97. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:11
    there is a difference between having an account and using it...
  98. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:18
    I only use my Google account to watch Karl and Billy talk to each other…
  99. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:20
    when do you leave for csun?
  100. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:20
    Tonight at 11
  101. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:21
    oh wow. have a great flight
  102. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:21
    Then a nice 5-6 hour wait for Job and Mallory to arrive.
  103. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:21
    ah
  104. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:21
    And then a nice 2 hour wait for the flight to depart :P
  105. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:21
    sounds like a long trip
  106. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:21
    yeah where we are, the trains don't even start early enough to get us to the airport early enough to satisfy the muricans
  107. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    it's like 13 hours or something?
  108. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    11 hours maybe
  109. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:22
    15 hours total, 3 hour layover on LAX
  110. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    and then hope security at the first stop don't stop us from catching the next flight
  111. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    3 hours is good
  112. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    anything shorter than 2.5 and I get antsy
  113. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:22
    And yeah, I can only make it to Schiphol two hours prior to the flight; probably not enough.
  114. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:22
    its not security (unless you have to change terminal) but immigration
  115. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:22
    So I'm spending the night instead.
  116. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:22
    2 hours before is fine
  117. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:22
    because if a shit-ton of other planes arrived with yours, you can easily squander that 2.5 hours wairing in security line
  118. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:22
    really
  119. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:23
    it's also security
  120. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:23
    biometrics, another scan
  121. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:23
    maybe check your luggage
  122. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:23
    @jnurthen, you think so?
  123. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:23
    depends on connections
  124. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:23
    and yes also visa etc
  125. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:23
    oh yeah - luggage. forgot about that
  126. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:23
    I need to check in luggage, have checked into flight. Need to answer questions probably?
  127. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:23
    tyhat is why i hate US connections
  128. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:24
    In any case, I'd rather spend the night at the airport than miss the flight :P
  129. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:24
    i have never needed more that 2 hours
  130. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:24
    yeah
  131. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:24
    i hear you on that
  132. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:24
    Not necessarily Michiel, but sometimes you pick up your luggage and bring it to sec all new and then it goes on the plane before you
  133. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:24
    other times they'll just forward it
  134. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:24
    US you always have to pick it up as you have to clear customs at your point of entry
  135. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:24
    I don't follow?
  136. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:25
    europe you clear customs at your destination so you never have to deal with luggage at a connection
  137. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:25
    I meant I didn't follow the stupid cat
  138. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:25
    it will all be good....
  139. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:26
    Oh, now I get it.
  140. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:26
    Hm yeah that might be true, I might have always picked up my luggage again when first entering the States
  141. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:27
    and they have you sent it back through machines etc so if they WANT to open it or check it out, they can.
  142. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:27
    Anyway, I'll take my macbook and find a power outlet; it'll be fine.
  143. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:27
    and you're there to answer
  144. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:27
    yep....that is why I connect in europe. Always need at least 2 hours to connect in the US INT->Domestic
  145. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:29
    See if I can work through my data limit for this month
  146. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:29
    but even if you were to miss a connection at LAX (not that you will with almost 3 hours) there are tons of flights so it wouldn't be a big deal
  147. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:29
    yeah that's why I wanted LAX
  148. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:29
    it's so close
  149. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:29
    if we miss, there's lots of other short flights and at least 1 bus
  150. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:30
    it's how I did it last year
  151. StommePoes
    Mar 18 17:30
    ok food time
  152. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:30
    And there is a train right?
  153. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:30
    or rent a car and drive
  154. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:31
    I don't have a license.
  155. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:31
    but they would just put you on the next flight.... there are lots
  156. jnurthen
    Mar 18 17:31
    that just makes it more fun
  157. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:31
    =D
  158. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:32
    Hmm, Firefox Nightly started following me on Twitter
  159. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:32
    Better not tell them I use Chrome and Safari…
  160. vdurhhe
    Mar 18 17:32
    I expect to get constant updates about CSUN from all y'all so I can experience it vicariously through you. Can't go this year. Double-frown. :(
  161. vdurhhe
    Mar 18 17:33
    Or as @StommePoes would say: Sad Panda
  162. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:34
    Just follow #csun16 :)
  163. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 17:41
    [marcysutton] Happy Friday y’all (coffee emoji)
  164. garcialo
    Mar 18 17:41
    Friday?
  165. garcialo
    Mar 18 17:41
    oh shit, it's Friday
  166. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 17:43

    [karlgroves] >oh shit, it's Friday

    yeah! that means its time to work on your CSUN presentation!

  167. garcialo
    Mar 18 17:43
    so true; need to finish this 3 day assignment I got first
  168. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 17:53
    Friday already? I hardly did 1 days work…
  169. MichielBijl @MichielBijl needs to improve…
  170. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 18:14
    [marcysutton] I’m excited for March and April to be over. Talks are fun, but the work that goes into them is no joke.
  171. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 18:15
    Maybe it would if you wrote a comedy show ;)
  172. jnurthen
    Mar 18 18:16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw
  173. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 18:23
    You better keep that for next week ;)
  174. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 18:23
    [marcysutton] Hahaha true. My partner has gotten to see how much work really goes into a 20 minute talk. Makes it more understandable why confs pay for overseas trips for 20 minutes of speaking
  175. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 19:46
    [melsumner] Random question: how many times does a conference speaker typically give the same talk?
  176. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:03
    [marcysutton] The past few for me have been 4-6 times, some smaller events to prepare for bigger ones. After about 6-8 months I retire it unless someone requests it specifically.
  177. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:04
    [marcysutton] It’s a bit more frequent now, though, since my job is 50% evangelism.
  178. garcialo
    Mar 18 20:21
    oh wow, you get time to work on talks?
  179. garcialo
    Mar 18 20:21
    you're spoiled =p
  180. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:31
    [patkil] hey all - new here, hoping for some guidance (feel free to point me at the appropriate channel if it’s not this one). Does anyone have a list of resources that show useful & accessible code examples for common web components (e.g. navigation, embedded videos, drop-downs, etc)?
  181. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:33
    You can find those here: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/
  182. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:34
    Heydon has made some cool examples too: http://heydonworks.com/practical_aria_examples/
  183. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:36
    [patkil] Wow those both have a lot
  184. MichielBijl @MichielBijl needs to start packing his suitcase
  185. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:36
    Well, we've been working on it pretty hard ;)
  186. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:37
    [patkil] looks like the W3 link doesn’t have anything for media players though (something that my team in particular would love guidance on)
  187. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:37
    Nope, that is—alas—still not filled
  188. jnurthen
    Mar 18 20:37
    there was some recent discussion here on that... check the archives from about a week ago
  189. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:38
    [patkil] thanks - I’ll get my search on :)
  190. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:38
    Here are some resources for accessible media players: http://www.iheni.com/accessible-media-player-resources/
  191. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:38
    And I think powrsurge was developing one.
  192. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:38
    [patkil] Awesome!
  193. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:38
    [patkil] lots for me to get to digging through
  194. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:38
    [patkil] thanks you!
  195. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:38
    Or powrsurg*
  196. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:39
    :+1:
  197. garcialo
    Mar 18 20:39
    @patkil WebAxe http://www.webaxe.org/ is also a great resource; Dennis does a good job of aggregating content from around the community
  198. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:39
    Yeap, WebAxe is good
  199. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 20:39
    Especially since it incorporates my last name ;)
  200. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:40
    [patkil] and right there on the front page are some articles around video
  201. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 20:40
    [patkil] =@
  202. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:26
    Anyone here at Schiphol tonight by any chance?
  203. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:26
    I'm bringing beer ;)
  204. jnurthen @jnurthen gets on a plane to Amsterdam
  205. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 21:29
    [marcysutton] Safe travels!
  206. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:30
    Haha, really James?
  207. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:30
    That would be a too funny
  208. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:30
    you said you were bringing beer
  209. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:30
    Yeap
  210. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:31
    bit far for beer.... i have that here
  211. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:31
    Neubourg and Leffe
  212. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:31
    well... not here as i'm at the office - I only have wine at the office
  213. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:31
    I can bring some Ardbeg and Johnny Walker
  214. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:31
    But we have to finish those at the airport in that case.
  215. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:32
    I have a bar in my office
  216. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:32
    working in style
  217. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:32
    you work from home though right?
  218. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:32
    Yeap
  219. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:33
    I'm not sure I should bring my dinosaur onesie.
  220. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:33
    you have to
  221. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:33
    we have heard all about it
  222. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:33
    Although it is super soft
  223. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:34
    Yeah, I'll probably have to wear it during the ARIA dinner thing…
  224. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:36
    I have 40 minutes to decide
  225. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:36
    if you will wear it or take it?
  226. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:38
    Haha
  227. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:39
    jkva and stommepoes sort of dared me to wear it through security, but they would probably make me take it off.
  228. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:40
    I'm sure it would be ok but why risk it
  229. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:41
    Exactly
  230. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:41
    They might appreciate in Amsterdam, but most likely not LA
  231. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 21:48
    [poorgeek] probably not the worst thing LA security has ever seen entering the country
  232. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:56
    Well jnurthen…
  233. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:56
    alt=Dinosaur tail hangs out of suit case https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/dw4YiUou/
  234. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:57
    excellent
  235. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:57
    i wasn't expecting it to be green - but i guess we have no idea what colour dinosaurs were
  236. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:58
    They had all sorts of colours
  237. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:58
    RAWR - (which according to my kids book means both hello and goodbye in dinosaur)
  238. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:58
    And some had feathers, so the softness of this one is actually pretty accurate.
  239. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:58
    I know for a fact that is not correct: http://rawr.eu/translate.html
  240. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 21:59
    Although dinosaurs had many different dialects, so maybe some have taken it to mean something else
  241. jnurthen
    Mar 18 21:59
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17265257-rawr
  242. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:01
    I will have to order that as part of my research, but who are you going to believe? Some kids book or a website developed in close collaboration with a researcher from the Oxford University?
  243. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:01
    I'll ask my 3 year old
  244. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 22:01
    [techthomas] Anyone know any good resources about hardware kiosk accessibility? Any lessons learned?
  245. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:02
    I hope that message didn't go out in the wrong order
  246. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:02
    @techthomas - the previous reply was not to you!
  247. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 22:02
    [techthomas] Hey a 3 yr old might have the answer I need!
  248. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 22:02
    [techthomas] =D
  249. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:10
    Hah
  250. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:16
    @TechThomas Friday afternoons tend to be quiet in here as Europe is done for the week - and next week is CSUN so you may not get many answers then either
  251. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 22:26
    [techthomas] @jnurthen My timing is never good :) I still need to book my hotel for CSUN! Thanks though, I will repost on Monday
  252. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:33
    I hope I got everything.
  253. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:33
    All I forgot I will have to buy :P
  254. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:33
    passport & money. everything else can be replaced
  255. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:34
    (well passport and plastic cards that let you get money)
  256. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:35
    Yeap
  257. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:35
    Got those :)
  258. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:35
    Will get some cash at Schiphol.
  259. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:39
    Alt=my office for the next hour and a half, beer and laptop in the train https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/tEeL9bXa/IMG_1070.JPG
  260. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:40
    at least you have Belgian beer - not Dutch
  261. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:43
    Not all Dutch beer is bad
  262. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:43
    Zundert is pretty good
  263. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:54
    never heard of that one
  264. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:54
    just like all US beer isn't bad
  265. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:55
    James, why are all design patterns in tables anyway?
  266. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:55
    I feel stuff like description etc should just be a heading.
  267. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:55
    Those tables seem very misplaced to me.
  268. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:55
    Or out of place
  269. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:55
    cause they always were....
  270. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:55
    That's no good reason
  271. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:56
    Would you be okay with me making a branch in which they're headings?
  272. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:56
    Just to see what that looks and feels like?
  273. MichielBijl @MichielBijl needs something to do for the next 20 hours…
  274. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:56
    sounds like good busy work for a flight
  275. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:57
    It's settled then, I'll make a branch.
  276. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:57
    i would say check with Matt - maybe he loves the tables
  277. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:57
    but I don't see why he would, tables normally make things harder for a screen reader, not easier
  278. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:58
    I'll shoot him an e-mail.
  279. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:58
    Which e-mail do you use for ARIA stuff? I know Matt uses his personal e-mail.
  280. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:59
    I use my work one for aria lists
  281. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 22:59
    Okay
  282. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:59
    matt changed to his personal one when he switched jobs
  283. jnurthen
    Mar 18 22:59
    I'm not sure i even know his current work one but i could guess i think
  284. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:01
    mck fb.com
  285. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:01
    It's listed on the APG…
  286. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:01
    ah - fair enough
  287. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:02
    public knowledge then. That is probably why i get a ton of spam now
  288. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:02
    Same here
  289. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:02
    At least my TPG address has a spam filter
  290. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:02
    My personal one doesn
  291. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:02
    t
  292. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:02
    my work one does but i still get a bunch
  293. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:02
    Injection molds and plastic are a lot of them. no idea why
  294. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:03
    For some reason spammers think I like to gamble.
  295. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:03
    FREE SPINS!
  296. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:04
    Miss Rose Richards is very persistant too
  297. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:04
    but she only inherited $6,400,000 so i'm not sure my cut would be worthwhile
  298. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:06
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QdPW8JrYzQ
  299. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:06
    anyway - have a good flight. I'm going to drive home and try to beat some of the traffic
  300. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:06
    Drive safe
  301. jnurthen
    Mar 18 23:07
    I've seen that. its great
  302. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:29
    @marcysutton I have never given the same talk twice, re-used some material though, but I don't do many talks
  303. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:29
    I only like to present if I have something new to say
  304. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:31
    [marcysutton] I always change stuff in between, but if I have two talks within a few weeks of each other I have to sleep and eat and live my life sometime =D
  305. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:34
    @marcysutton yeah if you are doing the circuit then you can't and don't need to do fresh every time I guess
  306. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:35
    [marcysutton] fortunately it’s not much of a circuit. I’d miss my dog too much
  307. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:35
    @marcysutton And only present when asked and turn down most opportunities as I don't like doing it much as I am a misanthrope
  308. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:36
    [nschonni] Maybe you need a Madlibs style random accessibility presentation. Every time you advance the slides it picks a random W3C page :p
  309. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:36
    @nschonni that is an amazing idea
  310. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:36
    Also am crap and have a style that pisses people off 😜
  311. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:37
    [marcysutton] OMG like Battledecks
  312. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:37
    Steve you're not crap, but yeah; you piss people off :P
  313. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:37
    [nschonni] ** looks up Battledecks
  314. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:37
    @stevefaulkner I'm pissed off already
  315. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:38
    [marcysutton] They did that at Pop Agency a few times, where presenters had stupid random slides they’d never seen before…whoever made it the most coherent obviously won
  316. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:38
    I am pleased
  317. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:38
    I am sour coz I no go CSUN
  318. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:39
    The only part of why I'm pissed
  319. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:39
    [marcysutton] Ohhh no! We will miss you!
  320. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:39
    You no go?
  321. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:39
    No, because you're not going
  322. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:39
    I'm going to be there =p
  323. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:41
    [marcysutton] Well next year we should plan a CSUN Battledecks
  324. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:41
    [marcysutton] but make it accessible somehow…that might be tough
  325. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:41
    Ah that is nice, I usually hide in my room anyway, but family concerns make it impractical this year, already had my flight booked, so now going to Seattle in May for HTML spec editors.
  326. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:42
    meet
  327. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:42
    Somewhere I ain't been before, but would rather CSUN, always next year
  328. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:42
    [marcysutton] Cool! We should have coffee when you’re here.
  329. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:44
    Sure I have 4 days of hang in' due to ticket restrictions which mean I gotta stay for a week although meet is only 2 days
  330. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:44
    [nschonni] That's a weird ticket restriction
  331. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:44
    [nschonni] do they also force you to stay in a haunted house?
  332. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:45
    Probably because he booked for a week to start with. Only allowed to change dates I guess?
  333. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:46
    Yeah also international flight blah blah computer said no when I asked to be sent home sooner
  334. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:47
    I live in a haunted house so nothing new
  335. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:47
    I never trust computers.
  336. MichielBijl
    Mar 18 23:47
    Maybe you borrow Henny's magic carpet
  337. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:48
    Builders found an unexploded hand grenade in my roof the other day
  338. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:48
    wow
  339. garcialo
    Mar 18 23:48
    ...wow
  340. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:48
    [marcysutton] At least it should stop raining by May
  341. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:48
    [marcysutton] (maybe)
  342. zakim-robot
    Mar 18 23:49
    [marcysutton] whoa that’s bananas
  343. stevefaulkner
    Mar 18 23:49
    The building used to be a military aircraft factory in ww1/2 so not so surprising