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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 12th of April 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 09:54
    Morning slackers.
  2. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 09:54
    o/
  3. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 10:20
    \o
  4. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:44
    It drives us older programmers out (including with infantilizing and exclusionary cultures) because it's terrified of unions. Which leads me, as an aging (32) programmer, to think that some kind of collective professional structure might be a damn good idea.
  5. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:45
    32? Aging?!
  6. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:45
    Fuck that, I'm just getting started
  7. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 11:47
    I'll second that.
  8. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 11:47
    Maybe they're secretly a whisky or wine?
  9. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 11:49
    @MichielBijl I see what you did there.
  10. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:49
    I'm guessing that if you're in the hip buzzword tech scene, 32 seems old. /shrug
  11. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 11:50
    So I only have three years left 😱
  12. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:50
    Come join the Perl community, you'll be the youngest
  13. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 11:51
    Ha!
  14. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 11:51
    Crusty old unix wizards club can use some young blood ;)
  15. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 11:53
    Oh, pkra, we discussed MathML yesterday: https://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-minutes.html#item03
  16. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 11:53
    Call from editors to WG members to advise on what to do.
  17. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:21
    @jkva I just turned 34. I joke around to the people in the department in the open access area (where all but one programmer, who started 2 weeks before me, and is a few year older) sit.
  18. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:34
    I had to read that section on the "If an icon is not an interactive element" for Font Awesome about 4 times before I understood the first sentence. I thought a bit of code for styling up some element was ripped out.
  19. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 13:38

    @powrsurg It’s good to see FA is taking a11y more serious these days, but I’ve ditched icon fonts for an SVG sprite workflow https://www.thinkful.com/projects//grunting-icons-into-svg-sprites-573

    I’d be kind of surprised if FA 5.0 doesn’t ditch icon fonts all together.

  20. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 13:38
    oh and please don’t do an a11y audit on thinkful.com/projects. It is sooooooo bad lol
  21. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 13:39
    <div id=“app></div> FTL
  22. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:40
    I still use https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/01/high-contrast-proof-css-sprites/
  23. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:40
    big draw back of that though is no spriting (sprite-ing?)
  24. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:41
    and everyone's site is bad. I haven't updated the design on my personal site since like, 2004. It's not even mobile friendly
  25. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:41
    Heck, it's not even HD-monitor friendly
  26. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 13:43
    What about https://github.com/blog/2112-delivering-octicons-with-svg ?
  27. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 13:43
    the thinkful stuff wasn’t even loading in any version of IE for months. blank white page (js error). pretty crazy. I through a hissy fit and got them to rearchitect an html first version
  28. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 13:44
    @Job inline works too. But I like to use SVG <use> personally. I feel like it is more efficent, even though GZIP probably takes away the bloat
  29. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 13:45
    Cool - I will need to make informed decisions on these things soon, so I need to know tradeoffs like that. Thanks =)
  30. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:48
    Is anyone familiar with how screen magnification software works?
  31. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:49
    PPK just wrote up his research on how browsers are now implementing a variable DPR based on page-zoom, but I don't think he considers things like ZoomText and other magnifiers ... and I don't know how they work so I'm not sure it would have any effect on them
  32. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 13:49
    http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2016/04/responsive_imag.html
  33. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:02
    Hmm,not bad stuff to know about
  34. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 14:07
    @MichielBijl My favorite exchange: "does anyone know anything about mathml?" " i know nothing about mathml" Sums up my life ;-)
  35. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 14:07
    @MichielBijl and thank you!
  36. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:07
    Haha, no problem :)
  37. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 14:07
    I'd be happy to join a call some time if that's helpful.
  38. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:08
    19:45 — MichielBijl I don't know anything about Math…
  39. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:08
    I added:
  40. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:08
    I'll ask if that is allowed (don't know to be honest).
  41. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:08
    W3C and their ways :)
  42. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Apr 12 14:09
    yeah, I know. If it helps, I'm an invited expert at DPUB IG so I've been on calls of the ARIA-DPUB TF (ok, one call).
  43. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:10
    Ah, that should help :)
  44. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:10
    Just don't crash calls like jkva does :P
  45. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:10
    =D
  46. Amanda Rush
    @amandarush
    Apr 12 14:14
    @jkva confused. What are you referring to that drives older programmers out of tech scene?
  47. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:15
    @amandarush some cynical comments on a reddit thread. I was just amused that programmers in their early 30s would consider themselves aging
  48. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:18
    All depends on the unknown variable β
  49. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 14:18
    Where β = age at time of death
  50. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:19
    https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4eaax0/whats_awful_about_being_a_software_engineer_tech/
  51. Amanda Rush
    @amandarush
    Apr 12 14:20
    @jkva that is kind of amusing, but I can see why they'd do it. majority of devs I meet are young, like in their 20's, and invincible.A few 30's thrown in, but mostly 20's.
  52. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:22
    Yeah. I mean, I'm 33, my end is near
  53. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:24
    All the Perl made me go bald though. My theory is all the bearded grey Perl programmers are in their early 30s, it's just all that exposure
  54. Amanda Rush
    @amandarush
    Apr 12 14:35
    @jkva well, I must be screwed then, (not sure if we're allowed to swear on here), because I'm 36, survived the Javaranchers after they imploded, and learned to program wi the old Borland compilers, which I still miss somewhat. I have yet to find an IDE that compares to those.
  55. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:36
    Yeah, my first real job was doing Object Pascal in Delphi =)
  56. Amanda Rush
    @amandarush
    Apr 12 14:36
    This thread is solid gold BTW. I need to close this browser tab or I will waste my morning away laughing.
  57. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Apr 12 14:37
    Yeah it's a good read
  58. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 14:39
    I love that thread
  59. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 14:39
    "The sugar should be reusable."
  60. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:11
    @powersurg Zoom Text at least re-renders text
  61. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:12
    it simply blows up images
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:12
    and it used to be, rerendering text only worked well in 1 particular browser (guess which one)
  63. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:14
    ZT does not re-render layout
  64. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:14
    in fact, you don't want it to
  65. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:14
    you can choose whether to cover the whole screen with the magnifyer or not
  66. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:14
    you can also have a magnified horizontal strip, or put the magnification on a section of the screen, leaving the rest of the screen at normal-size
  67. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:15
    I don't do any of these but their purpose is when you get lost-- which happens all the time once magnification gets high
  68. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:15
    that and I get dizzy/sick as fuck-all when moving around a highly-magnified area
  69. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:15
    sometimes I have to stop, then go back
  70. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:16
    So if you had a desktop browser zoomed in and THEN turned on magnification, it will just magnify the zoomed-in version--whatever's on the screen, simply gets magnified.
  71. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:16
    Images do not get better.
  72. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Apr 12 15:19
    woops @powrsurg
  73. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Apr 12 15:23
    Would having the magnified image be helpful?
  74. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 16:02
    @fstorr @powrsurg Eric (@yatil) asked me to ask you to log an issue on github about the Understanding WCAG document issues.
  75. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 16:23
    @jkva one reason I took a swift detour from icon fonts is apps like Focus by Mozilla that let mobile users block things like web fonts. Of course there is also Opera Mobile. It kind of made me realizie what a hack icons fonts were, and we don’t need them anymore now that we have SVG. The caniuse score for SVG is actually better than webfonts. Slightly, but still better. And browsers and content blockers don’t block SVG.
  76. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 16:24
    SVG is a pain though as you have to inline them in order to be able to colour them with css
  77. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Apr 12 17:01
    @jnurthen ya that is true there are some quirks. at least you can use <use> though! http://codepen.io/jpdevries/pen/MKbrrX
  78. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:05
    I love Focus.
  79. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:05
    And I love the fact that I can now finally use it.
  80. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:05
    <3 iPhone SE
  81. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:08
    ??
  82. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:23
    Mozilla Focus, content blocker
  83. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:23
    Content blockers can only be used on 64 bit CPU's
  84. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:23
    I had an iPhone 5 before last week.
  85. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:23
    jnurthen, why on earth don't we have a general disclosure design pattern?
  86. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:24
    Like an APG version of details/summary?
  87. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:27
    cause I haven't got round to writing it!
  88. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:28
    see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28916
  89. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:28
    if you want to write it go ahead!
  90. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:29
    you talking about content blockers just as I am working on the accessibility of some analytics stuff ;)
  91. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:30
    Ah
  92. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:30
    I block all the things where possible.
  93. jnurthen
    @jnurthen
    Apr 12 23:31
    so you don't care if those things are accessible or not ;)
  94. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:31
    I still have to write the breadcrumb thing.
  95. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:31
    Well, sure I do, I care a great deal about content blockers being accessible ;)
  96. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    Apr 12 23:57
    Moved that issue to GitHub: w3c/aria#326