Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 24th of May 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 00:55
    So I'm guessing you don't trust your ISP then? If I have a good ISP why would I want/need it?
  2. Jonathan Neal
    @jonathantneal
    May 24 03:52
    Good evening!
  3. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 24 06:58
    Good morning, slackers.
  4. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    May 24 09:00
    Hey @pkra :-)
  5. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 24 09:00
    Late morning for everyone it seems.
  6. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 24 09:00
    😃
  7. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    May 24 09:01
    i always get up early as i have 2 young kids, but much time spent getting them sorted
  8. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 24 09:02
    Same here, albeit just one toddler.
  9. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 10:00
    Morning all.
  10. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 12:09
    Nice: <button type="submit" class="button cta_button" data-btntype="continue" data-btnname="createNewAccount_continue" title="Continue Button" tabindex="550"><span tabindex="-1"></span></button>
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 12:21

    [karlgroves] >tabindex=“550"

    not ambitious enough

  12. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 13:05
    Lord
  13. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 13:05
    Like seeing z-index: 9000000
  14. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 13:13
    What does the inner span do?
  15. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 13:14
    I think I'll just switch to https://github.com/marmelab/universal.css
  16. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 13:21
    powrsurg: nothing.
  17. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 13:28
    eh, I don't get why people do things these days
  18. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 13:29
    "I used to be with 'it', then they changed what 'it' was..."
  19. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 13:48
    It'll happen to you too!
  20. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 14:16
    it already happened to me and I'm 34
  21. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 14:17
    working with young devs. I've said that line
  22. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 14:17
    In silicon valley you're considered 'aging developer' @powrsurg. Yup.
  23. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 14:19
    we use AWS. The comment has been made when something isn't going right and I'm complaining that I'm an old man yelling at a cloud
  24. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 14:53
    I'm an old man yelling at companies with inconsistent UI's and possibilities.
  25. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 14:54
    Just let me delete games from my profile! Damn you Sony!
  26. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 14:54
    I can't stand it that there is an Uncharted 4 MP open beta in my library I can't delete or use.
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 15:02
    [brianarn] I have a few betas floating around too, it’d be nice if you could purge ‘em
  28. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 15:05
    Or stuff like PlayStation now etc.
  29. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 15:16
    Ok, it's generally conceded that the title attribute is useless....but is it really useless? Is it helpful for low vision users that are using a mouse to get more context on an item?
  30. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 15:19
    It's useful to add an accname to an element.
  31. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 24 15:19
    If you can't use aria-label that is.
  32. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 15:22
    My thought is that in major browsers, you get the little floating tooltip on hover...this might actually be helpful for sighted and low vision users, but this leads to double announcing on a screenreader when you have an <a title> wrap an <img alt>
  33. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 15:26
    aria-labelledby actually works on the image - no double announce
  34. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 15:39
    and I lied
  35. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 16:49
    there is SEO value
  36. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 16:52
    @jasonday title would be much more useful if it worked everywhere like it works in IE11 or EDGE w/ win8.1+
  37. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 17:08
    double announce may be a necessary evil
  38. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 17:09
    yeah - sometimes.
  39. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 18:33
    Hey - is there another CSS hide method to get Window-Eyes/IE to announce CSS content?
  40. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 18:33
    .Sub3_saleRegularPrice::before {
    content: "Was ";
    position: absolute;
    clip: rect(0,0,0,0);
    }
  41. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 18:37
    well, window-eyes/IE won't announce content: ""
  42. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 18:54
    I think you have to do 1px not 0
  43. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 18:55
    actually - not sure you can do that... you are trying to use css to add the content and hide it at the same time?
  44. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 18:56
    interesting if it works but I have never seen anyone try to do that before.... normally add the content in HTML and hide with CSS
  45. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 18:57
    I don't have window-eyes so can't help you test but I don't think IE adds CSS content to the accessible name - and I'm not sure there is any prospect of it ever doing so
  46. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:06
    @jnurthen - Yeah it's IE that fails (NVDA and WE) for any content added through CSS (hidden or not). FF & Chrome are just dandy.
  47. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:07
    yep - that is an interesting technique for adding screen-reader specific text (particularly for something like <DEL> or <INS> elements)
  48. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:08
    yeah, I was trying to address strikethrough pricing without adding anything additional to the DOM
  49. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:09
    I guess it depends how much you care about IE users :)
  50. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 19:14
    you should just live on the Edge
  51. powrsurg @powrsurg goes and hides
  52. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:18
    so many things are broken on IE that I find it harder and harder to justify it
  53. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:30
    I remember back when IE showed alts on hover of img tags... people loved that
  54. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:30
    We noticed they loved that when we started doing title="" (empty string) to override the alts in IE
  55. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:31
    People who can see will still look for textual context in images semi-consciously, if that's traditionally been available to them and esp if the image is on a control
  56. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:31
    So I often don't tell devs to remove titles on things I think would confuse me visually too
  57. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:31
    With hi mag tho it's an issue if the titles are long
  58. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:31
    It is really weird that the HTML spec is so adamant that alt cannot be displayed if the image is displayed - that alt as tooltip was handy
  59. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:32
    you can't scroll to read the whole thing
  60. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:32
    you lose your hover and the thing's gone before you could read it all :( and sometimes it covers other text up and it's hard to place your ginourmous mouse hand somewhere that's not triggering the tooltip.
  61. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:32
    Yeah it was.
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:33
    Guess the specs really want to keep "alternative" as an actual alternative
  63. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:33
    but honeslty usability would want both available.
  64. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:34
    same with longdesc-- I hate that is some secret, hidden thing. we should all have access
  65. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:34
    i always add a visible link to the same content
  66. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:34
    So I always steer people towards links... luckily with the recent math stuff, an external, available-to-all link was already a thing. Yay.
  67. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:35
    Yeah I do too.
  68. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:35
    I've sometimes named them things like fakeLongdesc but they're just links... sometimes skiplinks to another area. At work they're often an in-page popup.
  69. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:38
    cool news: jkva is at a meeting at a Big Blue Dutch E-commerce company which, back when I applied had said to me "those sorts of people (people with disabilities) don't use our website." I had sent in my application with lots of zoomtext and keyboard notes. But this meeting jkva is at, they are talking about react, big data? and ... keyboard accessibility.
  70. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:38
    cool
  71. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:39
    what is fake that it is long or that it is a description :)
  72. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:39
    Just that it's not the attribute.
  73. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:39
    Fake attr.
  74. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:39
    i got it
  75. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:39
    :)
  76. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 19:39
    Yea talking about it now
  77. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:40
    i don't know what a big blue dutch e-commerce company is
  78. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:40
    two of them = double dutch
  79. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:40
    At work a vendor was using actual links with the text "d" in them. I said in my feedback that that was quite terrible link text. The reply was "that's what we're asked to do by other companies" so I think it's frmo that old "D-link" stuff
  80. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:40
    google tells me coolblue
  81. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:40
    Yeah there are 2 or 3 Big blue dutch e-commerce companiers
  82. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:41
    the other one is Bol.com which is also a sort of Amazon.com
  83. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:41
    Blue is their primary colour and they're huge ecommerce companies... Bol started with books I think, CoolBlue with computers
  84. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:42
    So usually when I told people about what I was told, I didn't want to name them, so would just say "large blue e-commerce company" which only leaves like 2 or 3 options but doesn't name
  85. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:42
    focus indicators.... it is ok to only have them when using the keyboard right?
  86. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:42
    I hope so, I'm often removing them for mousers. Haven't decided with touch.
  87. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:43
    ok... i'm trying to get them to make really 'strong' focus indicators now they don't worry about mouse users accidentally seeing it
  88. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:43
    But then I do like clear, obvious hover and active styles, and if possible some notification near where clicked.
  89. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:43
    Oh I use a modified paciellogroup javascript for that
  90. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:43
    I listen on the body for mouse and keystrokes, add/remove a class on the body and style accordingly
  91. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:43
    yeah - i think thats what they are doing
  92. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:43
    But... I can see showing focus being helpful to non-keyboarders.
  93. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:44
    it means i don't get fights about the focus being ugly any more
  94. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    I don't recall seeing anything about it in WCAG tho.
  95. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:44
    yeah - that was my thought
  96. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    yeah exactly, in fact I can get away with m0aR ugly
  97. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    as in, more obvious.
  98. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:44
    I thought i was hearing /s - why wouldn't you have focus indicators for everyone?
  99. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    Because you're not allowed to
  100. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:44
    designers hate them
  101. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    unless you're the CEO who can make that decision
  102. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    or the Graphics Overlord who can make that decision
  103. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:44
    clients have told us to remove focus rings
  104. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:44
    fight the battle
  105. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    you can't win as a developer, so you ahve to sneak it in
  106. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    No
  107. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:45
    I've done and won
  108. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    Fighting the battle means they fire your sorry ass aand get some kid in there who has no qualms doing outline: none on everything
  109. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:45
    can win rarely - and often have to compromise
  110. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    That is a FACT
  111. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    I know
  112. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    So we sneak it in
  113. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    It's how I did a11y for years
  114. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:45
    specifically for a11y - low vision users might still use a mouse
  115. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:45
    i find i can get them in - but they end up being subtle
  116. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:45
    sneak it in-- if the Graphics Overlords never see it (and they don't, because they are all maccers with mice), it gets through
  117. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:46
    Yeah tho subtle is itself hard
  118. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:46
    I keep them default
  119. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:46
    by doing it this way i can have nice big focus indicators for people who really need them
  120. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:46
    And some browsers' own outlines are so hard to see on certain backgrounds
  121. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:46
    and can't do default for pseudo-focus on all browsers
  122. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:46
    http://www.vanbeekdesign.nl/
  123. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:46
    I made huge fugly blue focus rings everywhere...
  124. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:46
    that was fun
  125. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:47
    i like it
  126. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:47
    Client stole that design from a UK art supply company, then has total control of the front page via a sort of you-can-write-crappy-code-in-the-CMS
  127. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:48
    but most of the rest I could do something about
  128. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:48
    Oh and that; the site where the SEO guru said "headings confuse google" and I had to remove them from the footer
  129. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:48
    the fat footer
  130. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:48
    so the css class to retain heading styles while not having actual headings points to the WCAG failure example.
  131. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:48
    I don't miss the days of client work
  132. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:49
    <p class="www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F2" role="heading" aria-level="2">Service</p>
  133. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:49
    Someone here, or on twitter reminded me about the aria roles... was a good idea
  134. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:50
    that is ugly but works for eveyone (unless you need to restyle based on CSS - and even then you could based on the aria stuff)
  135. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:51
    but that's just silly (your SEO guru's recommendation)
  136. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:51
    is there such a thing as an SEO guru?
  137. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:51
    It was originally something like footer h2 {styles} but so now it's footer .www.w3.org\/TR\/... etc {styles}
  138. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:51
    This 24-year-old was such a pro
  139. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:51
    convinced most of our clients of the craziest shit
  140. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:52
    well, the company he worked for is a well-known SEO company
  141. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:52
    and not all their recommendations where shit
  142. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:52
    yeah...there's always a scammer that finds a niche to exploit
  143. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:52
    I'm glad I have never had to worry about that
  144. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:52
    most of our stuff ends up behind firewalls anyway
  145. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:52
    but the google-hates-headings thing... another guy from the same company tried to tell us "more than 4 h2's on a page lowers your ranking" and I pulled out everything challenging him
  146. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:53
    We have enterprise level SEO folks, and they've contracted with vendors for input, but we actually talk with google several times a year...go to the source
  147. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:53
    But to save hair and my job, my rule was: I tell them ONCE why it's a steaming pile of bullshit... and then I just do what they say if they still insist-- because now I consider them informed.
  148. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:53
    does CNN rank well on google - cause that is the biggest header overload i have ever seen
  149. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:53
    haha
  150. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:53
    on the other hand, one page on CNN has like a bazillion little topics that each have their own headers
  151. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 19:53
    I think it had less to do with # of headings, and more to correct structure (nesting, and content under headings, etc.)
  152. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:54
    most of the headers on cnn are links with no content
  153. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:54
    although, someone I know was asking me about a facebook button and I asked for the code and it was <h3 style="inline styles">[fblike]</h3><span style="more inline stlyes;"><image for thumbsup/><h3>like us on facebook</h3></span> or similar
  154. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:55
    I tskd him for that
  155. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:55
    but he'll prolly leave it :P
  156. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:55
    its not one of out FB buttons is it?
  157. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 19:56
    I haven't got them to schedule the fixes yet but had a very productive first meeting a few weeks back with them
  158. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:58
    I'm not sure if it's generated or not, but I thought not as the guy had some control over those elements
  159. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:58
    He has a weird issue where clicking anywhere left of the L of Like unlikes the page, while clicking to the right Likes (or does nothing)
  160. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:59
    I have no idea why.
  161. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 19:59
    I think where he says [fblike] he means the generated fb code.
  162. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:03
    ok - was hoping it wasn't one of ours :)
  163. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:04
    Yeah unless he sends me a page URL I won't know. Although I know the website-- a right-wing independent irish web newspaper. So I could probably find it, but wouldn't be sure. Unlikely he uses Oracle stuff though.
  164. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:04
    Or did Oracle give FB a better button?
  165. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:04
    or do you mean a11y-group suggested to fb?
  166. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:04
    we have a social media sharing company - addthis.com
  167. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:05
    Oh I remember fighting that
  168. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:05
    allows you to add those pesky buttons
  169. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:05
    I couldn't add hrefs to the twitter button, so could never focus on iut
  170. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:05
    and if you tried adding it with HTML or JS it would double it and then not work
  171. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:05
    That was years ago though.
  172. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:05
    the concurrenct, ShareThis, wasn't any better.
  173. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:05
    yeah - most of them suck. the only ones which currently sort of owrk are the old ugly looking ones
  174. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:06
    but they are working on it
  175. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 24 20:06
    ...no timelines obviously though
  176. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:06
    I recently ran into some Ux-designy site (with light-green on white text for links, ug) which had these unicode-based share buttons stuck to the left side... and those fonts never loaded for some reason so all I got was coloured blocks with ?;s inside
  177. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:07
    no_icons_low_contrast.png
  178. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:23
    We moved to font-icons (with aria-labels) for our social share icons. You can trigger the same functionality with javascript, and you avoid the bloat & risk that comes from using those buttons. An error with facebook essentially crashed our product pages a few years ago.
  179. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:24
    you still need to recognise the icon
  180. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:24
    Nowadays I'm so damn old
  181. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:24
    I only get half of them
  182. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:24
    Because I don't keep up with the new hip-with-kids apps
  183. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:24
    truth be told, engagement on them is so low - it's more of an ego thing
  184. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:24
    no one uses them
  185. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:25
    I guess one could argue that people who already know what they are will recognise them and know their names
  186. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:25
    and that those who don't, have no reason to use them
  187. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 20:25
    [unknown] Nowadays I'm so damn old
  188. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:25
    Even when I do want to tweet something, I don't use social buttons. I copy the URL and tweet that.
  189. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:25
    but even people that share things on facebook, don't use the buttons to do so
  190. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:26
    But, I'm a developer, not a user. Not sure if users tend to do that, i'm thinking not.
  191. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:26
    right - the social buttons are ineffective, yet they are on everything
  192. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:26
    hording my CPU and loading time
  193. StommePoes @StommePoes shakes fist
  194. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:27
    Even worse... a previous employer wanted a facebook like button... their customers were small-medium enterprises and didn't really facebook, so there were low like numbers.. and I said "low numbers looks way worse than no like stuff"
  195. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:27
    luckily they agreed.
  196. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:27
    Oh look! 10 people liked this company, and look, they all work for it.
  197. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:27
    socialfail
  198. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:27
    yeah - I laughed when I used to do client work and would get those requests.
  199. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:28
    I didn't laugh. I filled with fear.
  200. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:28
    I was a terrible freelance developer
  201. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:28
    It's one of the reasons I don't even think of freelancing
  202. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:28
    $husband keeps telling me how great it would be
  203. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:28
    zomg no.
  204. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:28
    client is king == shit code
  205. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:28
    I did for years - luckily I ended up being a hired gun for marketing agencies, so I could stop working with clients
  206. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:29
    Isn't marketing just worse?
  207. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:29
    Marketing was the main cause of most of our crazy stupid stuff, like the SEO stuff
  208. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:29
    and the LIke buttons
  209. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 20:29
    [unknown] It's one of the reasons I don't even think of freelancing
  210. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:29
    cayate zakim
  211. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:30
    nah - they did all the client work, and would toss comps my way leaving me free to code it how I wanted. But most of the time I fixed issues their devs couldn't - "This site is broken and we have to deliver it to the client tomorrow!"
  212. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:30
    which meant I could charge whatever I wanted
  213. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:30
    it was great, until the economy tanks
  214. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:30
    *tanked
  215. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:30
    and then I went corporate
  216. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:30
    YOU WENT SUITS AND SOX??? :P
  217. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:31
    I work for L.L.Bean - I wear jeans most days, and work from home a couple of days a week
  218. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:31
    I guess I'm technically corporate.
  219. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:31
    as long as my shirt has the semblance of a collar, I'm good
  220. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:31
    Michiel can wear a Dinosaur onesie
  221. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    I heard there were companies that demanded women wear heels. I was like zomg, I could work naked
  222. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    I'm all remote
  223. sophieschoice @sophieschoice likes men in suits
  224. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    lots of Hangouts but they just get to see the cat
  225. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    suits can look pretty nice indeed
  226. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:32
    lol.
  227. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    but I would hate needing to wear them
  228. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:32
    I'm pretty sure my only suit doesn't actually fit
  229. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:32
    And I'd never work for a company that required heels. Fuck that, those are an ankle-breaking hazard.
  230. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:33
    If I owned pyjamas I'd prolly wear them
  231. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:33
    it's usually a rotting conference shirt and jeans
  232. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    May 24 20:33
    demanding woman to wear heels is stupid. I can’t yet properly walk in them and my feet hurt quite soon.
  233. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:33
    I can't walk in them at all
  234. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:33
    Granted I've only tried like 3 times in my life
  235. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:34
    Obviously the more you practice, the better you can do it.
  236. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:34
    But I don't ice skate either.
  237. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    May 24 20:34
    flat surfaces are OK, don’t send me over cobble stones obviously :P
  238. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:34
    If I can't wear my calvin-and-hobbes converse shoes then you don't want a programmer
  239. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:34
    I can't imagine, because ice skates are the worst thing I've ever put on my feet
  240. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:34
    I was surprised as a kid how well I could walk around on the ground with them actually
  241. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:34
    heels were harder
  242. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:35
    And I don't mean pumps or boots, those are uncomfortale for me and I will sometimes twist my ankle in them but with "heels" I mean high heels.
  243. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:35
    They are... inaccessible.
  244. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    May 24 20:36
    stiletto -level?
  245. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:36
    should be banned by the wcag
  246. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:36
    Don't think I ever tried italian dagger shoes, no.
  247. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:36
    But I've seen American Maid on The Tick use them as deadly weapons so that's a plus in their corner
  248. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:37
    ah, the Tick. The reboot won't have Putty, and that makes me sad.
  249. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:37
    Putty?
  250. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:37
    Patrick Warburton
  251. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:39
    ah I only saw the cartoons
  252. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:39
    which I loved.
  253. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    May 24 20:39
    alright, my work day is done... See ya
  254. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 24 20:39
    back to arrow functions!
  255. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 20:48
    The Tick animated >> live action Tick
  256. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 24 20:48
    I'm still annoyed the full series isn't on DVD
  257. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:55
    Yakked all night with big blue's a11y guy
  258. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:55
    Invited him to role=drinks next month - he already knew about it!
  259. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:55
    the fuuuuu
  260. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:56
    Heard a screen reader referred to as "a blind machine"
  261. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 20:56
    [michiel] StommePoes: Mathilde will also be wearing her onesie!
  262. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:57
    There is hope for that company yet
  263. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 20:58
    Might have options for sponsorship if I play my cards right
  264. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 20:59
    [michiel] We get to do role=drinks on a ship?!
  265. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 20:59
    [michiel] Awesome!
  266. jkva @jkva executes punch over ssh
  267. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 21:05
    [michiel] At least it was secure.
  268. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 21:06
    And accessible.
  269. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 21:07
    There were 3 talks. One on webpack, one on react, and one on keyboard a11y. The react one was surprisingly good as an intro. Don't like the client-only rendering though
  270. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 21:07
    I was SO glad to hear that
  271. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 24 21:07
    "Will you be using this in production?" "No, because we care about accessibility and also need to provide a site for users without JS"
  272. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 24 22:04
    [michiel] thumbsup emoji