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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 25th of May 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:00
    Are there any people from the Oxford area here?
  2. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 00:01
    I'm originally from near there but I guess that is not what you are asking ;)
  3. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:01
    I've been there more times than you as far as you told me :P
  4. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 00:02
    Oxford itself - yes :)
  5. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:02
    Am asking because am looking for a11y meet-ups there.
  6. And if there are none, might want to start one :)
  7. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 00:02
    when ar you moving?
  8. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:02
    Bring this whole role=drinks shtick to the UK.
  9. From the looks of things, 1st of August.
  10. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 00:03
    the uk doesn't need a role to drink
  11. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:03
    Ha
  12. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 00:05
    but I grew up near there, in Aylesbury. Haven't been back since i was 16 though
  13. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 00:24
    Nice - just sent a message to Flexibits support, got a reply within one minute…
  14. jnurthen: you can stay over if you want ;)
  15. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 09:00
    Morning people
  16. Can anyone help me write the rest of the lyrics? https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/735394987614031872
  17. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 25 09:16
    @MichielBijl Badabing, badabang
  18. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 09:18
    That makes me think of the sopranos.
  19. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 09:19
    I think that's goodfellas?
  20. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 25 09:21
    Or Star Trek DS9. Whatever works for you ;-)
  21. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 09:28
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_Bing
  22. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    May 25 09:33
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badda-Bing_Badda-Bang
  23. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 09:52
    Happy trowel day to Steve!
  24. And happy towel day to the rest of you.
  25. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 10:00
    Huh, TIL #badabing
  26. Gah, I mean "comment", not "hashtag"
  27. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 10:12
    Commnet? / /
  28. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 10:46
    Hmm. I'm building an accessible chat panel. I first used role=log on the list of messages, and also tried aria-live="assertive" aria-relevant="additions" but neither can prevent the user 'losing' messages while typing in the chat message bar
  29. role=log otherwise work very well
  30. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 10:53
    I could do some nasty heuristics with "guessing if the user is typing based on onChange interval on the input box" and applying aria-busy based on that so I buffer incoming messages, but still
  31. That's a hack
  32. MichielBijl @MichielBijl sees need for a chat design pattern in the APG.
  33. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 10:56
    I asked @MarcoZehe how he deals with that in IrcCloud
  34. IrcCloud++
  35. @MichielBijl chat design pattern - is that a serious remark?
  36. Hmm Marco says typing always interrupts, so we'd need some sort of native buffering semantics
  37. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:03
    test jkva?
  38. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:03
    Yeah I opened a chat with you
  39. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:03
    Didn't open in pidgin
  40. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:03
    Hmm weird
  41. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:03
    You're not in the room list
  42. 31 people in room
  43. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:03
    Ok so those messages don't get announced
  44. Annoying
  45. Only what I send myself, I hear announced back
  46. (VoiceOver on IRCCloud)
  47. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:07
    while I thought pidgin would only show those using IRC, you're using IRC and not counted as a person in the room.
  48. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:08
    I wonder if there's even a way to keep track of "unannounced" or "interrupted" announcements in VO
  49. or any screen reader, for that matter
  50. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 11:11
    jkva: that was a serious remark.
  51. In other news, the slack IRC bridge actually has all the people in the room as members in IRC.
  52. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:12
    Which remark MichielBijl?
  53. Oh right
  54. I=dumb
  55. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 11:12
    The chat design thingy.
  56. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:12
    role=dumb
  57. Hmm
  58. I Would have to talk to WG, vendors. Hack at NVDA for prototype
  59. In retrospect that seems like a very naive statement
  60. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:17
    I kinda wish I knew what was special about the people listed as being in the a11ySlackers room
  61. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:18
    @StommePoes elaborate? What do you mean "special"?
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:18
    Well, something is letting 31 people be listed as being in the room while nobody else is.
  63. You're not, Michiel isn't...
  64. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:19
    I'm not? Weird.
  65. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:19
    No.
  66. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:19
    I think it has to do with the web interface
  67. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:19
    I said I needed to click your name here in the chat itself to open a room with you.
  68. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:19
    Might be a websocket connection as opposed to IRC connection #guess
  69. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 11:19
    the only j's are jalbertbowder, JimBobSquarePants, jooplaan and jpdevries
  70. there's also a user called gitter though.
  71. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 11:27
    StommePoes: might be people with Gitter web interface open?
  72. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 11:27
    [michiel] Slack channel on IRC lists 783 members.
  73. [michiel] I'd switch to Slack if I didn't know the Gitter IRC bridge sort of messes up all messages from Slack.
  74. [michiel] Slack's IRC bridge is a lot nicer though in my opinion.
  75. [michiel] Out to get lunch, see ya.
  76. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 11:30
    I’ve been seeing lots of people attaching click event handlers to <button> and not wrapping user input elements in <form> lately. I’ve even seen that in the React docs. Am I crazy or is that just plain wrong? AFAIK user input should always be wrapped in a <form> so you can leverage the HTML5 form validation API and also to support any assistive tech that taps into the form submit process
  77. jkva @jkva browses the NVDA source code
  78. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 11:44
    Hrm there are no comments in here at all
  79. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    May 25 11:47
    @StommePoes @jkva the user gitter might be me, signed in via the Gitter.im webinterface, not the desktop app
  80. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:32
    You're listed in the chat as sophieschoice tho
  81. but I just said "hallo" to the gitter account
  82. @jpdevries depends on what the buttons do. Push-buttons have little to do with forms-- they're meant to run scripts.
  83. A lot of people disliske the form validation anyway-- they choose to write their own instead.
  84. Although if I have inputs where users are supposed to actually input stuff, I personally wrap those in form tags.
  85. But... what about a select where choosing a language or a country reloads the page with taylored info?
  86. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:34
    @StommePoes sure, I mean with situations like capturing user input, maybe sending it over AJAX or something like that. I made an example codepen http://codepen.io/jpdevries/pen/MegjKb?editors=1011
  87. let’s see, for the country drop down, i assume that would need to be wrapped in <form>?
  88. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:36
    Don't see why, Although I personally prefer a separate submit button for these things (since onchange sucks for keyboard unless you write specialised Javascript), but we did it all the time at previous $jobs
  89. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:37
    i’m just thinking to support .no-js you would need to wrap it in a form with a submit button, but then you could hide the submit button for .js
  90. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:37
    I think we mostly did it without dedicated buttons because we were already inside forms and the point was not to submit, but to affect later form questions-- but those were checkout forms, which nobody disputed their forminess.
  91. jpdevries sure, but you, me and like 5 other people bother supporting no JS.
  92. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:37
    hehe
  93. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:37
    So you won't see forms wrapping these things.
  94. And you can't convince the majority of "accessibility people" that progressive enhancement is anything more than some nice-to-have feature.
  95. Which, to me, it isn't.
  96. And I tie it very closely to accessibility. But most people don't.
  97. jpdevries @jpdevries will keep fighting the good fight
  98. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:40
    So since PE isn't considered part of accessibility, there's no requirement that people start with forms and then HIJAX it later.
  99. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:40
    ya. my understanding is WCAG 2.0 TL;DR is it is ok to use JS, but atleast have a fallback message with a <noscript> tag that says please come back with js turned on
  100. and most people don’t even do that
  101. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:50
    I can see why-- most cases of having no JS is not because the user turned it off or because the browser does not support
  102. which are the only cases noscript would be invoked.
  103. When you're in a train tunnel, noscript doesn't appear.
  104. And that's why I see PE as important. JS breaks or gets chewed up or screwed with or hacked by ISPs or tied by silly developers to 3rd parties like Facebook or whatever... and while that breaks stuff for all users, users with disabilities are hit harder and recover less from these. Which in my book counts as being a consideration.
  105. WCAG2 may mention JS partially because the first version stated whether or not one could use JS
  106. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 12:54
    [juryjowns] StommePoes: I didn’t know most didn’t consider PE as closely tied to accessibility. To me, it’s one of the best shots you have at good accessibility and helps build solid, maintainable code.
  107. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:54
    @StommePoes that is a great point. Let’s not forget React supports IE9+. Also, JavaScript will cake its pants on a misplaced semicolon...
  108. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:55
    To me, too. But I've been told I'm wrong on that, so I reflect it as my opinion. At best it's considered a webdev best practice, but because it has no direct relation to people with physical disabilities, it's not considered an actual direct thing. It's why WCAG doesn't say one must Progressively Enhance.
  109. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:56
    @zakim-robot i also think PE ties into performance. If you start with HTML first your time to first meaningful UI is very quick
  110. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:56
    My company decided on React, meaning I can't start with HTML and build up. The best I can do (since I have no access to servers) is to try with HTML then use a method called "dangerouslysetInnerHTML". The name does not inspire confidence in other devs who may use my React components.
  111. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 12:56
    [juryjowns] @jpdevries: I’m currently working on a Quiz Creator (where users can create and take quizzes), and for multiple choice questions on quizzes, the submit button is hidden if you have JS so that you just click a styled label (input hidden, but still keyboard accessible and focusable). If you don’t have JS (or if JS fails), you can use the submit button.
  112. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:57
    sounds like classic HIJAX.
  113. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:57
    @StommePoes well I think you can… All these proofs of concepts are done HTML first and PE with React https://github.com/jpdevries/matboard#labs
  114. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 12:57
    although being able to focus on hidden stuff frightens
  115. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 12:58
    @zakim-robot that sounds really nice! Kind of reminds me of this concept http://codepen.io/jpdevries/pen/BKXbXg
  116. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 13:01
    [juryjowns] StemmePoes: I’m just using CSS to obstruct the input and style the label when the input has focus, similar to @heydon’s article here: https://www.sitepoint.com/replacing-radio-buttons-without-replacing-radio-buttons/
  117. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:01
    @jpdevries how are you making HTML in React without making HTML in React?
  118. I've only been able to add Javascript to HTML components in React if React builds them first.
  119. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 13:03
    I suppose you could call it the old fash way. The initial HTML isn’t made in React, then React takes over. I suppose you could use React on the server side to author the initial HTML but I’m not, so yes there is duplication http://jpdevries.github.io/matboard/labs/resource-edit/
  120. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:04
    I'm looking there and I can't see what's going on at all
  121. If I use my React tab I see React components, but when I look at the HTML I don't see any React elements
  122. none of the id's or anything are in there
  123. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 13:08
    if you turn js off, you can see that it is a HTML first form that supports .no-js. Then if JS is on React basically creates the same page but adds async features
  124. The HTML doesn’t contain React or anything like that. It’s mor like React is responsible for re-creating the HTML with PE
  125. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:10
    Whenever I use React to "recreate the HTML" I get a bunch of junk in my HTML
  126. And the only way I can keep the HTML being whatever it was, is to copy it
  127. Like for a tab panel. The panels will have whatever the end user has put in them-- maybe it comes from a Database. To start with that as HTML, and then make a React version of it, I need to copy for example everything in the panels so I can add it to my Reacty <Panel> components
  128. And the only way I've found to do this is with dangerouslySetInnerHTML
  129. Same for grabbing the names of the tabs
  130. if I'm supposed to get any HTML, I don't know how to rewrite it any other way
  131. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 13:11
    i haven’t really had that problem too much. It’s mostly copy HTML, plop in JSX. Basically what I did is recreated each <fieldset> as a React component https://github.com/jpdevries/matboard/blob/gh-pages/labs/resource-edit/_build/js/view/resourceeditform.js#L422
  132. Jonathan Neal
    @jonathantneal
    May 25 13:21
    Good morning!
  133. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 13:21
    Is there any #a11y gained by explicitly using <thead> as opposed to a <tr> with <th> in it?
  134. It seems ATs figure that stuff out themselves
  135. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 13:21
    Morning Jonathan
  136. jkva: don't think there is, but also not sure.
  137. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 13:21
    Yeah same boat
  138. I prefer being explicit
  139. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 13:22
    Well, it helps distinguish in HTML anyway.
  140. And tfoot is always on bottom visually even if on top in code.
  141. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 13:24
    [karlgroves] @jkva: no.
  142. [karlgroves] I’m always explicit too. Helps for styling anyway
  143. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 13:48
    Is tfoot still invalid code if it's include at the bottom of a table?
  144. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:54
    it's required to be the first thing
  145. or, it used to be in HTML4
  146. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 13:55
    Right, I knew it was in HTML4, I thought I heard that HTML5 was going to change that but didn't know if that ever went through
  147. browsers do seem to do the right thing if it's at the end since devs did it
  148. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 13:56
    Contexts in which this element can be used:
  149. As a child of a table element, after any caption, colgroup, and thead elements and before any tbody and tr elements, but only if there are no other tfoot elements that are children of the table element.
  150. As a child of a table element, after any caption, colgroup, thead, tbody, and tr elements, but only if there are no other tfoot elements that are children of the table element.
  151. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tabular-data.html#the-tfoot-element
  152. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:56
    I'm using a jQuery UI datepicker and the instructions for "use ctrl + pgUp" "ctrl+dgDn" to move between years just moves my browser tabs
  153. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 13:57
    @StommePoes does it do that if you only have 1 tab open? I believe stuff like that worked in Firefox with 1 tab open
  154. which is mostly useless since who actually only has 1 tab open these days
  155. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:57
    Oh maybe, my browsers always have many tabs
  156. but lemme check in a new windows
  157. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 13:57
    right
  158. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:58
    hm nope, just does nothing.
  159. Still can't change the year that way.
  160. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 13:58
    I thought I saw that practice since some version of the recommended keyboard commands for tab panels included ctrl + page up
  161. maybe it was chrome and not firefox I saw that in. Still, most users don't have just 1 tab open so that instruction is basically useless ...
  162. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 13:59
    Works in Firefox with 1 tab but never works in Chromium regardless of tabs.
  163. I think chromium is trying to still switch tabs and because it sees no other tabs, stil doesn't pass the command downto the JS
  164. even typing a year, and then trying to move my cursor around, still keeps me in 2016
  165. Bleh.
  166. maybe it works on Windows.
  167. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 14:00
    yeah, date pickers suck
  168. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 14:02
    What I would want (since most date pickers have buttons that do these very things), is if I'm in an input and the datepicker opens, I should be able to get my focus inside there and be able to navigate the table with arrows... where button groups are tabable perhaps.
  169. But not sure the best way to get into the datepicker while not using tab, since I may want to just tab out of that input entirely
  170. Once I've typed something, CTRL+arrows does move me around the grid.
  171. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 14:14
    Testing multilanguage support in VoiceOver always makes me laugh so hard.
  172. And then cry because it's not actually supported.
  173. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 14:17
    I want to scrap the date picker we have on one section of our site. We have a date picker (which is not keyboard accessible, and is hard to even just enter text in), then a time picker (also clumsy to get a time in), then an AM/PM radio button. Makes me sad
  174. it does look nice-ish, but I haven't gotten to fighting for fixing that. Fixing other stuff that is more broken while adding new stuff and making sure it isn't broken
  175. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    May 25 14:22
    @MichielBijl iOS speech synthesis support is also saddening (reads things way way too fast) https://vimeo.com/122235533
  176. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 14:26
    Sounds good to me :P
  177. Is there no way to change the rate?
  178. jkva @jkva burns a Frontpage 6 effigy to summon the ARIA WG
  179. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 14:42
    you had to deal with people that used Frontpage? I had to deal with Word?
  180. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 14:43
    !MSONormal
  181. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 14:47
    <o:p>
  182. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 14:49
    <oracle:select>
  183. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 14:49
    now now
  184. @jpdevries pretty certain you can slow down iOS speech from within Accessibility , Speech in settings
  185. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 14:50
    What? That probably exists somewhere within the bowels of Oracle :P
  186. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 14:51
    it would not shock me
  187. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 14:51
    Hehe
  188. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 15:54

    [alexlande] Hey all, something that I’ve been curious about lately is color contrast. Often when I work with designers they recoil in horror at how far from WCAG 2 conformance their color schemes are. It doesn’t help that so many popular sites don’t even remotely have enough contrast.

    I’ve read the spec and it seems pretty clear to me— logos, decorative text, and inactive UI controls don’t require minimum contrast, but everything else does. That said, I was reading the a11y project post about it (http://a11yproject.com/posts/what-is-color-contrast) which has this quote:

    W3C states that it’s not always possible to reach the AAA level of conformance across entire sites. So the goal is to get the highest level you can where it counts.

    Are there times when you don’t need to meet contrast? Is it extremely important for long portions of text and less so for UI controls? Or is it just not prioritized enough and the web needs a whole lot more contrast in general?

  189. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 15:56
    @alexlande That is the AAA 7:1 level which is pretty extreme
  190. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 15:57
    [alexlande] oh yeah, AAA even moreso. I’ve typically gone with AA as I’ve understood that to be a relatively standard requirement
  191. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 15:57
    I'm not sure where this is stated in WCAG either
  192. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 15:58
    most gov'ts and things standardized on AA and not AAA. AAA is a goal, but just frankly not always completely possible
  193. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 15:59
    The note about AAA is a general thing for AAA standards - not specifically about colour contrast... it is one of the reasons they are AAA
  194. "Note 2: It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA Success Criteria for some content."
  195. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 16:04
    [alexlande] Oh, I see, I misread the a11y project quote as “AA” instead of “AAA”
  196. [alexlande] So in that case the quote from the article lines up with what I understand about WCAG (i.e. AA is a must, AAA is a nice to have)
  197. [alexlande] But still, what’s the deal with contrast? It seems like every site I use on a regular basis doesn’t conform to AA in this area. Is it just not prioritized?
  198. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 16:20
    I thought it was just, people make websites and want them to look all greyed out because trends
  199. Most of the sites you use on a regular basis won't work with keyboard either.
  200. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 18:00
    Most websites are written by ignorant people (which I use to mean just they are not informed of things like best practices)
  201. and a lot of people just spread what they've heard other people say. There is a gigantic game of telephone involved in their learning
  202. The fact that a website can be put together that covers "most people" in an afternoon, or by people that will charge you like $100, shows that they're not aiming at everyone ....
  203. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    May 25 19:00
    and images in gmail signatures are broken all 404'ed
  204. https://webkit.org/blog/6415/release-notes-for-safari-technology-preview-5/ a11y improvement
  205. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 20:37
    [marcysutton] ooooooh looks like they finally fixed the player controls issue!
  206. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 20:45
    Yeap!
  207. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 20:52
    player controls?
  208. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 21:02
    [marcysutton] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117857
  209. [marcysutton] HTML5 audio and video not being operable from the keyboard
  210. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 21:04
    https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/735518812930506753
  211. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:16
    w3c folk here: Would it be useful to me as a non-WG member but very interested individual?
  212. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 22:18

    [karlgroves] >Would it be useful to me a

    Would what be useful?

  213. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:18
    Haha! I am tired.
  214. Would attending TPAC 2016 be useful to me.
  215. Thanks for paying attention Karl :P
  216. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 22:22
    [karlgroves] Are you even in any W3C Working Groups?
  217. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:23
    @karlgroves: No.
  218. Hence the question
  219. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 25 22:23
    [karlgroves] You have to be a participant in a working group.
  220. [karlgroves] Probably not worth it anyway.
  221. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:24
    There's a guest attendee rule. But you're probably right.
  222. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:47
    last year a bunch of the CGs also met
  223. but if you are not involved in a group i would say no
  224. always time to get involved - we need more APG contributors :)
  225. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:48
    Fair enough. Maybe someday.
  226. I have a call with @MarcoZehe tomorrow, depending on how that goes I might get involved w/ ARIA WG, but that's all future song
  227. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:50
    Well, you know who to talk to if you do want to join ;)
  228. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:50
    Steve Faulkner? ;)
  229. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:51
    Schwer
  230. He'd be the boss
  231. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:51
    cooper
  232. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:51
    SCHWERDT
  233. FEGER
  234. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:51
    Michael Cooper
  235. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:51
    oh yeah schwer was for the svg group
  236. I almost thought of joining that, but sanity prevailed
  237. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:51
    Schwer is ARIA WG chair.
  238. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:51
    no rich is the chair but michael can make things happen
  239. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:51
    Indeed
  240. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:52
    w3c staff contact
  241. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:52
    yeah but he was directed to me specifically if I wanted to join svg, the aria one
  242. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:52
    you are probably thinking of the ARIA SVG Task Force
  243. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:53
    I don't have the required superpowers to join the SVG Avengers Force
  244. Amelia specifically mentioned schwern
  245. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 22:53
    SVG Avengers, Assemble and Scale Proportionally!
  246. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 25 22:54
    yeah... rich would just forward you to michael to get it actially done though :)
  247. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:55
    You just need to apply for IE status.
  248. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:55
    sub/schwern/schwer/globally... there's a perl guy called schwern
  249. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:55
    And Michael has to accept that (or deny if he thinks you're not worthy)
  250. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:55
    Intrepid Explorer status?
  251. Michiel Bijl
    @MichielBijl
    May 25 22:55
    Invited Egoist
  252. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    May 25 22:55
    No I was kinda being asked/pressured to join from my boss's boss via Pearson
  253. but she's not there anymore and my new boss is a UX guy and doesn't really care :)
  254. But so first I'd have to go through a P guy there, then MC
  255. I was actually back when there was an HTMLwg
  256. But when that went away, I kept getting mails asking me to update my statusd
  257. and nothing I did seemed to stop the mails, so the last mail I got in Feb was "Mallory left the w3c" or whatever
  258. But, you can contribute to anything on github without being an IE.
  259. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    May 25 23:12
    role=sleep