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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 1st of June 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Jun 01 07:57
    LOL, Dutch Twitterers are having fun with Capgemeni, because they made a fool out of themselves in a newsitem on national tv.
  2. A lady said in front of the camera´s: "Of course there are jobs for women in IT. If you can apply make-up nice and style yourself nicely, you can design a website."
  3. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 08:04
    Not just a website, a cool website :P
  4. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 08:37

    @karlgroves @Jnurthen I've used multiple tbodies, it was basically our standard for lists of products where the product differences are each a tbody but we could not squeeze listy lists inside a table.
    @gerbenvandijk Jason Kiss recently twotted the most accessible datepickers he could find: https://twitter.com/jkiss/status/720720467829493760 and https://twitter.com/jkiss/status/720724410429100032 and https://twitter.com/jkiss/status/720731347556257792

    @elisa I dunno if you can force this however the Fronteers people (who place their videos on Vimeo of their conferences) have used a built-in Amara captioning setup, it was somehow connected with Vimeo. https://twitter.com/hdv/status/690481621393391616

  5. @paintingemily while I personally have loved using DLs for this, it seems most SR-users get more out of heading+p's type set up. Or, that what I've heard from developery, computery SR users. Since DLs don't offer their semantics to anyone, using them is more like a "personal choice of semantics" :P
  6. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 08:42
    More jokes about CapGemeni https://twitter.com/jvhellemond/status/737696129014456320
  7. (in the tweet thread, not that tweet alone)
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 09:01
    [gerbenvandijk] @StommePoes thanks!
  9. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 09:48
    Ha, Léonie became a member of the WCAB
  10. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 09:57
    what's wcab?
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 10:17
    [michiel] W3C Advisory Board.
  12. [michiel] They do planning, legal, issue handling, etc.
  13. [michiel] https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5461
  14. [jitendra] it looks like that almost whole inbox.google.com UI is made in <div> and <span>
  15. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 10:55
    jitendra: remember that google did indeed build a whole interface out of divs and spans, then added a crap-ton of aria
  16. not the way to do it
  17. but that's how they did it.
  18. Google Mail/docs is something to point at and tell other people "don't do what they did"
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 11:53
    [jitendra] What would be the accessible markup for email close view
    http://take.ms/pTvLs
  20. [jitendra] ul>li ?
    Table > tr > td?
    each row as a <div>
  21. [jitendra] And what should be for inner elements?
  22. [michiel] Looks like a table to me.
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:00
    [jitendra] Table for email?
  24. [michiel] It's data isn't it?
  25. [michiel] E-mail title, date send, name of sender.
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:09
    [jitendra] Ok but each row will have expanded mode too, how that would be handelled
  27. [michiel] What is an expanded mode?
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:15
    [jitendra] when u click on any email item to read that email content
  29. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:16
    Associate a next-sibling default-hidden <tr> with the e-mail row above it, and have some toggling logic. Be wary of using aria-expanded correctly
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:35
    [jitendra] But is reading email with table baed UI a good experience for screen reader user?
  31. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:39
    @jitendra: I would think so - especially since the column names can be re-read out on demand, so one can be aware of which information they're looking at at all times
  32. Best way to find out: mock one up, turn off your screen, turn on your screenreader
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:40
    [jitendra] what about other tags with ARIA?
  34. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:42
    @jitendra: not sure what you mean. Can you be more specific?
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:44

    [jitendra] I mean any other solution which visually mimic the table look and we can add ARIA attributes to make it accessible.

    I know semantic html is the best and ARIA should be avoided but want to know if this will be better in this case

  36. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:49
    @jitendra: You can make a <ul> of <dl>s to achieve the same thing... but a <table> is the semantic way to go here. Easy to make, can be made responsive, can have the toggling you want...
  37. You could make a <ul> of <article> and only show the non-content details by default, adding an expand/collapse content button, etc etc
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:50
    [jitendra] the problem with table is that each row will be <tr> which is hard to style if needed
  39. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:50
    It can all be made accessible no problem
  40. So why not just make it semantically valid from the start
  41. Who is preventing you from using a table
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:52
    [jitendra] I need to give some of the styling like Gmail Inbox has
  43. [jitendra] and inbox is using <div> which makes styling easy
  44. [jitendra] styling with <tbody> and <tr> is quite limited
  45. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:55
    Gmail also uses a table
  46. To render the list of emails
  47. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:56
    [jitendra] yes but visually and code wise Inbox is different
  48. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 12:58
    I see a navigation bar, a bunch of buttons, a header... just use semantic sectioning elements for that stuff
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 12:59
    [jitendra] check this part in Inbox https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/general/p1464782008006928
  50. [jitendra] its code, visuals (in closed and expanded mode)
  51. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 13:01
    I'm not a part of that slack group
  52. @jitendra: rough layout https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nSU6XBcP/
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 13:02
    [jitendra] Which slack group?
  54. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 13:03
    web-a11y.slack.com
  55. So I can't see the image you posted
  56. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 13:09
    [jitendra] oh ok I didn’t know that
  57. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 01 13:18
    Does anyone here attend any Drupal conferences?
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 14:28
    [elisa] @stommepoes thank you! My second part to my initial question is wondering if captions should be forced to show, or is it okay if they're just available?
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 14:33
    [jitendra] https://twitter.com/jitendravyas/status/738015593949863936
  60. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 14:39
    [michiel] jitendra: infinite scroll isn't accessible by default.
  61. [michiel] If it autoloads new content on scroll that is.
  62. [michiel] (which is my definition of infinite scroll)
  63. [jitendra] yes auto load
  64. [jitendra] so anything autoload in user’s interaction can’t be accessible?
  65. [michiel] Not if you can't reach the end of a page.
  66. [michiel] …because of it.
  67. [jitendra] What is best we can do it if we have to use anyway?
  68. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 14:59
    @elisa actually, they can cause problems for some viewers, so they should be easily available via the video controles
  69. I think YouTube remembers me with a cookie because most videos that have captions, even only auto-craptions, play them as I've turned them on once
  70. Don't know if that's an option for you, to remmeber the user setting. But some people have difficulty focussing on teh video content when there are captions, so people ought to be able to turn them off as well, if possible.
  71. Hey guys, one of our Sri Lankan team members found a calendar which appears to be built meant to be a datepicker. It uses a role-widget on the div wrapping the whole calendar... and I wonder if this is old
  72. We will have a non-datepicker (as in, no form input) that does need to work with keyboard to let students select a date.
  73. I was thinking, the calendar's tbody needs to be tabbable and then arrow keys should move between days.
  74. However I don't want to lose what you would normally have with SR table navigation-- hearing the associtaed headings etc as you move from date to date.
  75. dammit and if this is out of date it needs to stop being the first result when looking for aria roles https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles
  76. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 15:04
    I don't think I've even seen "widget" as a real role anywhere, but maybe it's on something I haven't run into yet
  77. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 15:12
    ok I can't find any role=widgets out there, I think someone just made it up. Going to use SuperHans' inline calendar http://hanshillen.github.io/jqtest/#goto_datepicker
  78. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 01 15:15
    role=widget sounds like the type of thing for a FB/Twitter feed on a site
  79. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 01 15:18
    I can't tell if the use of aria-readonly and activedescendent are still considered good to use... I saw a discussion about it on webaim and it looks like there's a bug with aria-readonly on grids...
  80. Hans is using anchors, I think I'd probably use buttons...
  81. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 01 16:53
    [marcysutton] Got a question from a colleague I’m having a hard time answering: does anyone have a favorite accessible single-page application? You’d think I’d know already...
  82. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 16:57
    @marcysutton: Right now I'd say IRCCloud - it works well in AT and they respond well to queries and comments to improve their accessibility
  83. jkva @jkva typed that using IRCCloud ;(
  84. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 16:57
    That should be a happy smiley.
  85. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 01 16:59
    The wise-ass in me tried to find the minimal tags needed for a valid HTML5 page, but no one actually links to that. Just blogs about the page. No demos.
  86. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 01 17:33
    Wow, http://www.m-enabling.com/ looks interesting. Too bad CSUN blew through most of my "large foreign conferences" budget :-/
  87. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 01 18:32
    Was that site built by whomever does ZoomText?