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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 21st of June 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 06:32
    [michiel] Morning slackers.
  2. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 21 06:41
    o/
  3. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 21 07:17
    @jnurthen Would you be limited to Amsterdam during your time there in August?
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 08:55
    [michiel] Further questions about the password role: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jun/0148.html
  5. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 11:07
    OK so even though we're told to use abbr + title for things, in fact JAWS for example does not read it out, so instead of telling my devs they can use abbr, I should tell them to be stuffing everything into off-screen text?
  6. Not that I can test any of these Numpad numbers, but there doesn't seem to be a laptop version for some keystrokes.
  7. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 11:16
    Looks like abbr is another I have to turn on... wonder how many of our students know to do that.
  8. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 21 13:15
    I feel like abbr+title has been a common practice for long enough that AT should have the expansion on by default
  9. Jonathan Neal
    @jonathantneal
    Jun 21 13:24
    How many screen readers do not announce abbr[title]? Or am I misunderstanding this conversation?
  10. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 21 13:52
    my understanding was that they didn't by default, but this could be changed with a configuration setting by the user.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 14:12
    [michiel] jonathantneal: VoiceOver doesn't speak it.
  12. [michiel] As far as I know there is also no way to have it speak it.
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 15:21
    [ginader] Which screen readers announce the legend of a fieldset when a field in the fieldset gets focus? (I thought I remember that Jaws and NVDA did years ago but when I tested with Chromevox and Voiceover yesterday both did not)
  14. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 15:23
    JAWS will generally repeat the legend for each control you move to inside, which is a bit annoying
  15. that's at default settings
  16. @jonathantneal I did just recently find a bug listing for NVDA not reading abbrs.
  17. And indeed, on our tables where a single letter represents the day name, they're just announcing "S, S, M, T..."
  18. JAWS I had to turn it on, but afterwards seemed to work well.
  19. However so far as I can tell VO has zero support so now I'm wondering what I should replace these with.
  20. aria-label sounded like a great idea, but th's are apparently inert enough that aria-labels get ignored.
  21. @ginader NVDA, at least last time I went through a form, only read out the legend when I focussed on the first control inside.
  22. And I believe i had to leave and re-enter the fieldset to hear it again (also re-entering via shift-tab from the bottom did it too).
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 15:26
    [ginader] that's what I thought @StommePoes - thanks. Is there a solid way to recreate the behaviour (Announcing the "header" of a group of form fields when one of them gets focus (i.e. autofocus). Probably use aria labeled by, I guess?
  24. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 15:27
    I have successfully used a p + aria-labelledby on radio groups in the past. The p was because the styling required the legend look exactly like other labels in the form and no way to get all the browsers to play ball with the legend.
  25. Most users have said in passing to me and on forums etc that JAWS is annoying when it does that :P
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 15:28
    [ginader] HA!
  27. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 21 17:07
    http://alistapart.com/article/the-future-of-the-web for the room since they're talking about accessibility in it
  28. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Jun 21 19:03
    What feedback should be given for a button press? I'd check the spec, but there is a lot of it and I'm lazy.
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 21 19:17
    [johnbhartley] paciello group has a nice overview here
  30. [johnbhartley] http://files.paciellogroup.com/blogmisc/ARIA/togglebutton.html
  31. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 19:54
    Okay, it's true if there's an aria-describedby in a form pointing to something that is display: none, the text inside that display: none object will be read out regardless, and thus developers are suggest to either create the element as needed, or the describedby attribute as needed, or fill the target element with content as needed.
  32. But is this true everywhere?
  33. I'm getting a case where we have an aria-describedby on an image (which sometimes is clickable to open a larger version) which points to a details element that someone accidentally a display-none-important
  34. I was making test cases of images with aria-describedbys and details but now I've realised the details were display none and have to check that one too...
  35. but remembered how in forms anyway, display could not stop the power of aria-describedby
  36. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 20:07
    w00ts test cases http://stommepoes.nl/work/figures_described.html
  37. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 21 21:00
    My test cases are not working, even though I read online that aria-describedby should work for images.