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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 29th of June 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Jun 29 09:53
    morning slackers
  2. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 29 09:56
    Morning Steve!
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 09:59
    [jv] morning
  4. [jakecross] Morning all!
  5. [michiel] Afternoon
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 12:19
    [jv] http://www.charitydigitalnews.co.uk/2016/06/27/government-must-enforce-of-web-accessibility-laws-charity-says/?platform=hootsuite
  7. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:18
    are there accessibility conformance checkers for mobile apps, like there are for websites? I'm being tasked with building a mobile app for our software and while I understand many things from work I've done to make websites accessible, I am not aware of things to automatically check mobile apps
  8. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:18
    Question for all, if a button with aria-haspopup opens a menu (with the correct menu and menuitem roles) do these buttons also have something else to indicate that they are toggled on or that the menu is open, or is that not needed in this context?
  9. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:19
    aria-expanded maybe?
  10. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:19
    The only thing I've seen so far @powrsurg is https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/ which isn't the same as a checker but I guess a checker would be based on it.
  11. I usually have aria-expanded on regular disclosure-type buttons
  12. however I've seen no examples of buttons who open menus/menuitems using that.
  13. and I can't tell if that's because it's not recommended, or because the examples are old, or...
  14. I know in most AT there's often an announcement of "menu" or similar when using haspopup
  15. but that's not really about the state of the button.
  16. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:23
    Do you have an example of your button/menu?
  17. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:28
    I can make one, so far I only have a picture :)
  18. <button aria-haspopup="true">Upload Photo</button>
  19. dang no newlines?
  20. <ul role=menu>(pretend newline here) <li role="presentation"><button role="menuitem">Edit Photo</button></li> (pretend newline here) <li role="presentation"><button role="menuitem">Delete Photo</button></li></ul>
  21. Where the ul with role=menu does hide/show based on haspopup's being clicked.
  22. or user tabbing away
  23. or maybe also user hitting ESC.
  24. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:31
    If you're on gitter you can use to markcode`
  25. damnit
  26. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:31
    how many is that?
  27. grave marks?
  28. code test
  29. 3?

  30. ```<button aria-haspopup="true">Upload Photo</button>

    <ul role=menu><li role="presentation"><button role="menuitem">Edit Photo</button></li> (pretend newline here) <li role="presentation"><button role="menuitem">Delete Photo</button></li></ul>```

  31. dammit
  32. I cna't make newlines
  33. I can only write it elsewhere I guess
  34. but anyway, it's small enough to show what I think the devs will need to build.
  35. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:33 
    var yes = 1; var no = 0; // that is bad code.
  36. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:33
    I wonder if I should make something for them, or if they're using Angular anyway and there's no point.
  37. So what keystrokes are you hitting to make newlines without submitting text?
  38. I tried ctrl+enter
  39. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:33
    ```
  40. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:33
    I have those above
  41. but anyway
  42. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:34
    I switch from chat mode to compose mode
  43. ctrl + / 
  44. <div>chatting is hard</div> <!-- no seriously, it took me a bit to figure it out and I forget it by the next time I do it -->
  45. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 13:40
    I think they need to be on there own lines ...
  46. shouldn't your upload button have had something to indicate that it controls the menu? I assume the menu does not appear until you click the upload button
  47. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 13:47
    There's the option of adding aria-owns but I thought that was only if the menu wasn't right next to it in the dom
  48. https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/#h-menubutton and over in menu/menubar is where I was looking
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 13:55
    [jakecross] I am looking at a book on accessibility and it recommends providing a hidden (visibly) select list that sits behind custom lists so taht a keyboard user can use the select list and a mouse user can use the custom list... is this considered good practise? It seems like you'd have a lot of clutter and your custom list woul dhave to be the same style as the select list anyway so that clicks registered with the correct select list item behind..
  50. [jakecross] http://paste.ubuntu.com/18099671/
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 14:08
    [deborah_kaplan] @jakecross that seems like a terrible amount of clutter when you could just use a normal select list, especially since Very few of the features that you can add to custom lists are things that actually add usability.
  52. [deborah_kaplan] Like, I've seen proof of concepts, but I've never seen them in the wild.
  53. [jakecross] Do you know what... I think I'd gone so far down the rabbit hole that it didn't even occur to me to use a select list instead
  54. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 14:12
    @StommePoes I'd say you're at least doing work according to spec.
  55. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 14:23
    [deborah_kaplan] @jakecross :D
  56. [deborah_kaplan] I know the feeling!
  57. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 14:42
    [jakecross] With the link I provided to hidden select list and how it says it should lay over the top... am I just missing some implied JavaScript to hook the two things together?
  58. [jakecross] Note: I'm no longer going down this route. It's just bugging me not understanding it. Surely if I have a custom set of options with each option being 50 pixels high, if the native select displays an option at 10 pixels (as an example) then clicking on the first custom option would register one of the first 5 in the native select drop down
  59. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jun 29 14:47
    @jakecross just hook them together with JS. The click event should never reach the native select.
  60. @StommePoes menu buttons used to have to own the menu. (Child aria-owns). Not sure if this is still the case in 1.1 though.
  61. @StommePoes you will also want to move the focus into the menu when it opens. That kind of implies it has opened.
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 15:28
    I'm considering that, not sure if we want to yank focus there for everyone.
  63. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jun 29 15:29
    Won't work for screen readers unless you do.
  64. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 15:29
    well that sucks. Shit mousers are going to be even more likely to accidentally select the first item
  65. but if I can't use expanded then I might have to do that.
  66. With disclosure buttons I don't hijack the focus, letting people sit there and open close as they please without needing to shift-tab back every time.
  67. but that's more helpful for sighties
  68. would be nice then if we knew how the user needs to interact, do one thing for one kind of user and another for another. But that's never going to be a thing.
  69. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jun 29 15:31
    Yeah but you need to get screen reader widget mode for the menu. Buttons don't switch mode (even menu buttons). Moving focus into the menu does that.
  70. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 15:31
    oh so arrows can be passed to my JS?
  71. makes sense
  72. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jun 29 15:32
    Yeah.
  73. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 15:48
    There's also something being built that lets people move an image around inside a modal. I can see getting this to work with keyboarders (let it focus and listen for arrows or tab-outs), but worry for screen reader users (since they wouldn't all be blind and may be using this feature) would need role=application.
  74. I don't think there's an existing widget and role system for this sort of thing.
  75. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 16:21
    [bmeunier] http://ageandability.com/2016/06/29/what-the-porn-industry-can-teach-us-about-accessibility/
  76. [bmeunier] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pornhub-blind-visually-impaired_us_57608dece4b05e4be8602385
  77. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 16:27
    If porn can give us VHS instead of TV, or discs instead of tape, or streaming instead of storage, I'm sure it can go from inaccessible to accessibility as a standard
  78. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 16:29
    [deborah_kaplan] porn and gambling basically gave us ecommerce
  79. [deborah_kaplan] so yeah
  80. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 16:43
    I'm contemplating making something work with the Gamepad API. I was considering to have the R and L buttons simulate a keyboard event for tab or shift-tab to move to the next or previous focusable item in a document. I've never done that and doing research shows that Chrome has a bug where it will ignore the keyCode parameter to simulated KeyboardEvents. Will it still actually perform the keyboard actions for tabbing?
  81. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 29 18:40
    [icaaq] Hello!
  82. [marcysutton] hello and welcome!
  83. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jun 29 20:18
    this is the story of the true icaaq, the Pine Box Derby, the monkey track
  84. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 29 21:07
    https://twitter.com/a11yteam/status/748212602837204992