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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 12th of July 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 07:50
    [dean] Michiel you forgot the mic drop.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 08:16
    [michiel] I feel that's more appropriate if you prove somebody wrong :P
  3. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 12 09:06
    Good morning folks
  4. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Jul 12 09:08
    morn @jkva
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 10:35
    [dean] all bombshells are worthy of a mic drop
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 12:42
    [michiel] drops mic
  7. [michiel] Am I doing it right?
  8. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jul 12 13:17
    Last night I was playing around with updating my game and I introduced the Vibration API into it. I looked around but I didn't see anything in WCAG that relation to it. My gut says I should be providing players the ability to disable that (just like I'm letting them control the style of animation), but it'd be nice to verify that I should be doing that first.
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 14:02
    [michiel] Whoop! I’ll be giving a talk at London Accessibility Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/London-Accessibility-Meetup/
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 14:47
    [jv] Does EU people need to obtain visa to visit London now?
  11. [michiel] Not yet.
  12. [jv] ok
  13. [michiel] Who knows in two years though.
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 14:52
    [michiel] Let's hope us EU people working in the UK don't get kicked out thumbsup emoji:skin-tone-2:
  15. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 12 15:00
    before I joined the EU though, while I did not need a visa, I did need to go through special passport control to enter the UK and fill out extra forms (maybe that was a type of visa but certainly not the sort I'd have to get before travelling)
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 15:01
    [michiel] I think you can get the same as with the ESTA thingy
  17. [michiel] Like a form declaring what illegal goods you're bringing.
  18. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 12 15:34
    Yeah, that's Schengen treaty
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 16:26

    [artistic_abode] Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Section 1557 of the Affordable Healthcare Act as it relates to web accessibility?

    http://www.hhs.gov/civil-rights/for-individuals/section-1557

  20. [artistic_abode] Is the act requiring WCAG 2.0 AA Level compliance? I am not finding any specifics but would assume so.
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 16:45

    [karlgroves] @artistic_abode: Yes. And No. Maybe.
    “Section 1557 requires covered entities to take appropriate steps to ensure that communications with individuals with disabilities are as
    effective as communication with others. “

    This reminds me a lot of CVAA in that they don’t point to any specific technical specification. They just say stuff has to be accessible.

    If a client asked me how I’d measure that, I’d definitely use WCAG 2.0 Level AA as the goal. If the client asked me why, I’d point to the patterns established by legal settlements with DOJ, Dept. of Ed, and others as well as the Access Board’s stated intent of incorporating WCAG by reference into 508 Refresh

  22. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 12 16:45
    @alice @michiel Re: your tab discussion yesterday. Moving focus automatically to the tab panel is bad. As a keyboard user i may want to just look through the different tabs without actually having to interact with them. As such my focus needs to stay exactly where it was (on the tab itself) when activating a new tab
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 16:45
    [cameron] woot! https://twitter.com/TwitterDev/status/752897568745648128
  24. [artistic_abode] Thanks @karlgroves
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 17:00
    [alice] @jnurthen Makes sense.
  26. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 12 17:28
    When loading a new page (or after a page reload following a form submit) is there any logic as to where JAWS starts reading?
  27. I have an error at the top of my new page, in FF it works great and the page starts reading from the top (expected) but in IE JAWS starts halfway down the page and the error is never read
  28. I really don't think I should have to focus on the new error message - after all this is a new page load.... wtf JAWS - why are you doing that
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 17:39
    [marcysutton] is there something stealing focus?
  30. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 12 17:47
    not as far as I can tell
  31. the server has just gone down so i can't double check - but it works fine in FF so would assume that anything that was taking focus would do so there too
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 18:42
    [chriswhawkins] Is there a standard or best practice for handling currency so that the text reader does not read the literal like: "dollar sign 49 point 99"
  33. [chriswhawkins] Do date, we've just used an aria-label with something like: "49 dollars and 99 cents", but I'm curious if there's a better way
  34. [michiel] jnurthen: that makes sense.
  35. [bkardell] so....would you ever put a popover on an otherwise non-interactive element?
  36. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 12 19:01
    @chriswhawkins I don't think you should change how the reader speaks that. Users can set their reader up to modify this sort of thing. Changing the user experience with aria-label doesn't sound like a good idea
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 19:03
    [chriswhawkins] Yeah thanks for that @jnurthen... I found a couple of forums echoing the same advice to not change something users are already used to
  38. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 12 19:12
    @bkardell only if it opened something annoying and frivolous. A toy for the mousers
  39. or, I have in the past put the Thingie in question into the tab order.
  40. However a general ordinary sighted keyboarder may not expect that thing to receive focus.
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 19:18
    [payown] Hey everyone, new to this team using voiceover and slack on iOS and OS X… Would love to provide some feedback, not quite sure where the most appropriate place on this team would be to leave that feedback… This channel?
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 19:28
    [michiel] payown: Feedback on what?
  43. [payown] Primarily focus issues… Especially on iOS. Mac version seems to jump screen reader focus back to edit box whenever option key is tapped, which is problematic since modifier key is on the voiceover platform our control and auction… Little things like that that I run into. Bell at Slack support suggested I use this Team to share ideas and feedback that I come across.
  44. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 12 19:32
    I'd say you should be contacting slack support :)
  45. probably <50% of this channel use slack as their interface
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 19:40
    [bkardell] @StommePoes what about this kind of thing... http://s.codepen.io/njbair/debug/bxcdu
  47. [bkardell] I feel like your initial reaction will be "it should be a link" - but a link implies you can do something with it, and you really can't
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 19:48
    [bkardell] I'm curious if anyone has thoughts into how to do that "nicely". I could just make it aria-describedby and have it always include the tangential/help/definition context but that seems rude too
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 20:04
    [george_zamfir] Hey @payown, the channel you're looking for is #slack-a11y-feedback. I got your support tickets as well and we're on the keyboard traps / functionality & screen reader support.
  50. [payown] Wonderful George! I will add that channel… And thanks, was glimpsing through previous chats in this thread, and as a blind keyboard a user I love that people are taking accessibility into consideration. If anyone needs any resources or help testing any projects you're working on, reach out to me!
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 20:15

    [george_zamfir] Cheers, will do. And welcome! This is a thriving community-driven a11y group with a lot of great resources.

    Most channels (including this one) focus on fairly technical aspects of accessibility, but they're not specific to Slack's accessibility.

  52. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 12 20:48
    Wow, this source takes me back, http://www.wcnews.com/articles/ranks.shtml
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 22:35
    [michiel] @bkardell: that looks like a tooltip dialog :)
  54. [michiel] APG on Tooltip Dialog's: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#dialog_tooltip
  55. [bkardell] @michiel: so... all of this stuff is about keyboard, but it says that it happens based on mouse :)
  56. [bkardell] I have a lot of cognitive dissonance there
  57. [michiel] Hmprf, yeah I see that.
  58. [michiel] Let's dig a bit deeper, and then I need to get some work done.
  59. [michiel] It says: “Other than the close and move behavior, all other behaviors of a modal dialog are implemented by the tooltip dialog.” So let's look what they say over there.
  60. [michiel] (http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#dialog_modal)
  61. [michiel] There is no info on how to trigger a dialog widget.
  62. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 22:41
    [michiel] So could it be a button with aria-describedby pointing to some text that says “read definition of term”
  63. [michiel] No that be too much work, need separate text for each occurrence
  64. [michiel] Grumble
  65. [michiel] I'm guessing you could activate the tooltip on focus.
  66. [michiel] My tooltips don't follow the guide at all: http://codepen.io/Michiel/pen/nuelx
  67. [michiel] My excuse is that I didn't know about the APG when I wrote that :P
  68. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 22:46
    [michiel] I think Heydon made some accessible tooltips as well.
  69. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 22:54
    [bkardell] @michiel: my question is explicitly about "tooltips" in the sense of attaching them to a non-interactive element
  70. [bkardell] in your example, is it not confusing to land on a link to nothing?
  71. [bkardell] well, in yours it just looks like a link
  72. [bkardell] is it not confusing to randomly land on a word for no explicable reason I guess is the question
  73. [bkardell] tabindex=0 on an element that is not actually interactive is the question... seems... confusing
  74. [bkardell] you don't stop on other words... why this one?
  75. [michiel] It's not the best example, I'll grant you that. The text is added via CSS generated content. The reason it is—or so I claim—accessible is because the text is read out by a screen reader when you land on it.
  76. [michiel] Other than that it's absolute rubbish as you point out.
  77. [michiel] In either case, if you attach a tooltip to an element that element should be interactive in some way.
  78. [michiel] You need to be able to interact with it.
  79. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 22:59
    [michiel] Otherwise there is no way for a keyboarder to get to it, no?
  80. [michiel] And your question if it's confusing to land on an element that is not actually interactive. Hmm, well, my example could make it a button and add some more information to indicate an action is needed to access extra information.
  81. [michiel] We lack a good example in the APG.
  82. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 23:07
    [bkardell] @michiel: in fairness I did not say "it's absolute rubbish" ;)
  83. [bkardell] I'd really like to know whats the least confusing thing, this doesn't happen often, but it does happen. One might think that <dfn> would be an example of where you might have seen this, but that is radically underused (even m-w doesn't use it) and has no special a11y powers either
  84. [michiel] You can't expect me to go around saying my own stuff is rubbish :P
  85. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 12 23:42
    [bkardell] @michiel: well... I do (not yours, mine)
  86. [bkardell] :)