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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 15th of July 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 00:10

    [alacker] My company has been working towards compliance for some time. I've been driving a lot of the work, but I would prefer to get a second opinion as I don't trust my own. Our UX people are recruiting for user testing, but I'd love to get a third party to verify and help write a VPAT/compliance documentation.

    I've found some companies that do this, but does anyone here have experience with one and recommend them? How much should I be expecting to pay for the assistance?

    Thanks in advance for any information!

  2. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Jul 15 06:59
    @alacker I can recommend the paciello group https://www.paciellogroup.com/ - but I do work there ;-)
  3. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 15 07:27
    Morning folks
  4. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Jul 15 07:50
    Morning
  5. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 15 07:59
    I got a linkedin request from a Deque person, "Sean Liechti". Any chance I could've met him at CSUN? Not sure why he wants to connect.
  6. "Account Executive" so not likely we ever met at CSUN, but you never know
  7. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Jul 15 09:13
    With a <select>, is there a keyboard press that will open the options list?
  8. Rather than just allowing you to scroll through the options visible in the tiny select itself?
  9. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Jul 15 09:26
    Actually, focussing on it opens the options list in Chrome, but not in Firefox. :thumbsdown:
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 10:04
    [michiel] iandevlin: space and return should do that.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 10:10
    [jv] When you write a motivational letter to apply to a role, do you write that either company’s product excites you or the kind of work you might get or you would want to work with some people who are already working there?
  12. [jv] I think all three things we get together very rarely.
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 11:04
    [michiel] All of the above :P
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 11:14
    [michiel] I would write what truly excites you. If it's the product, I'd write about that. It's the one constant for that company (probably).
  15. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Jul 15 11:16
    write why you are passionate about accessibility, what experience you have and why you would be an asset for them.
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 11:18
    [michiel] Yeah, forget what I said and listen to Sophie.
  17. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jul 15 13:07
    @jnurthen did not realize that. That makes sense. Just wasn't what I expected.
  18. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 15 13:28
    What the hell does Sitemorse think it's doing
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 13:36
    [michiel] Selling their stuff
  20. [michiel] That's what they think anyway.
  21. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jul 15 13:37
    But instead of debating Karl on facts, they take the "but your site has faults" angle
  22. Seems kinda counterproductive and immature
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 13:38
    [michiel] I'm also immature: https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/753936425301704705
  24. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 15 13:47
    @iandevlin guess what? it's not consistent per browser! I made a list
  25. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Jul 15 13:48
    @StommePoes Yes, that is what it looks like! Where is your list? :D
  26. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 15 13:48
    I should add it to the site I was testing onchange on http://stommepoes.nl/work/focus_and_select.html
  27. but here it is
  28. Default IE: arrows trigger (onchange) event (ooh need to check if it opened as well, I thought not); enter does nothing; blur does nothing
    Firefox: arrows do nothing (no onchange); enter does nothing; blur selects if different selection chosen
    Presto Opera: Enter must be hit first, then arrows can make a selection (here, enter opens the little box)
    Blink/webkit: arrows toggle onchange event UNLESS enter opens menu first, THEN blur selects if different option chosen
  29. I should add to this which strokes specifically opened the little box, one or two browsers never ever ever open a little box
  30. ok Firefox on Win and Linux never ever open the box for me.
  31. So I had been testing what triggers onchange and how can I hijack that to work for keyboarders across all browsers... turned out because of these differences, I cannot do this without some browser users getting non-standard behaviour which in the case of IE is good because simply arrowing around triggers the event (bad) but all the others ones will get a frustrating surprise maybe
  32. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 15 13:55
    so the work page I list currently doesn't run the JSes to fix onchange selects or make the little box appear, but there are 2 versions in there commented out
  33. via @jitendraVyas http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/Tourism-dept-gets-proposal-to-make-tourist-hotspots-disabled-friendly/articleshow/53220756.cms
  34. IE also has no little window for keyboarders.
  35. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 15 14:22
    Appears I was off with Opera: enter selects if a selection is selected yet its effect isn't happening... so if 1st select is set to green, background is green. If then second select is set to cyan, background is cyan. shift-tab back to first select and hitting enter in Opera Presto will make green the new selection (event fires).
  36. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 15 14:32
    Isn't alt+down arrow the correct way to open a select without changing the value?
  37. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Jul 15 14:57
    @jnurthen Interesting! That works in Firefox on a Mac.
  38. Sam J
    @mixolydian_twitter
    Jul 15 15:45
    @alacker We do VPAT creation which includes testing against the functional performance criteria by real users with disabilities. http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/services/audit-services/vpat-creation
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 15:56
    [alacker] thanks @stevef and @mixolydian_twitter :) I'll take a look at your companies
  40. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jul 15 16:28
    I'm surprised you're still testing Presto Opera. I thought that usage for that was fairly low
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 17:09
    [michiel] Presto is StommePoes' browser of choice.
  42. [michiel] Or engine rather.
  43. [michiel] Or Opera Presto is her browser of choice.
  44. [michiel] needs more liquor.
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 17:18
    [jiatyan] @jv: https://medium.com/come-in-we-re-hiring/mozilla-s-nearly-flawless-job-ad-and-why-5b11b3e0489#.pwnh1bep7
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 19:12

    [anastasia] Hi guys, I am torn between using <dl> or <ul>.

    By design list items should go one after another (horizontally) and this is not possible to achieve with <dl> because of its structure. So the solution is either to use unordered list or 3 definition lists. First one doesn't look semantically correct and second one destroys the list idea. 

    <ul>     <li>         <h4>Item title</h4>         <p>Item description</p>     </li>     <li>         <h4>Item title</h4>         <p>Item description</p>     </li>     <li>         <h4>Item title</h4>         <p>Item description</p>     </li> </ul>

    OR

    <dl>
    <dt>Item title</dt>
    <dd>Item description</dd>
    </dl>

    <dl>
    <dt>Item title</dt>
    <dd>Item description</dd>
    </dl>

    <dl>
    <dt>Item title</dt>
    <dd>Item description</dd>
    </dl>
    `\

  47. [anastasia] What do you think is a better approach in this case? Or maybe you've met some helpful articles. So far I found just one https://css-tricks.com/search-results/?q=definition+list which suggests to use <dl>, but it's from 2007 and I'm not sure it's relevant
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 19:17
    [anastasia] Or a 3rd solution to have an unordered list with definition lists inside, but this looks too crazy and makes things complicated imo
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 20:02
    [marcysutton] Either pattern would work fine, I think ultimately it depends on the nature of the content
  50. [marcysutton] Oh wait I just saw the separate dl’s. I would think you’d want one for them to be semantically related
  51. [marcysutton] In that case, I think the UL is the better choice
  52. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jul 15 20:10
    DLs are also handled really inconsistently by screen readers.... some read the total number of child elements as the number of list items and don't really distinguish between the dt and dd.... see http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=7089
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 15 20:26
    [anastasia] Ah true, I've forgotten about screen-readers inconsistency with <dl>, even between different iOS
  54. [anastasia] Thanks for the opinions!