Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 4th of August 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 06:51
    Morning all.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 07:10
    [michiel] Morning Ian :)
  3. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 07:56
    Hello Michiel.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 08:35
    [jv] hi all
  5. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 08:45
    Hello!
  6. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 09:42
    :D
  7. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 10:42
    MS playing santa, send in your wishes
  8. https://microsoftaccessibility.uservoice.com/forums/307429-microsoft-accessibility-feedback/
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 11:55
    [michiel] waits for jkva to kill him.
  10. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 11:57
    Hahaha wtf dude
  11. I look good with hair
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 11:59
    [michiel] You do, but not that hair…
  13. [michiel] For those that are missing the context: https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/761168370104410113
  14. [michiel] To add injury to insult, that photo was taken right after we realised we had missed our connecting flight to San Diego from LAX :P
  15. [michiel] It's my all time favourite photo of you <3
  16. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 12:09
    Ah yes, the "Dude, not now, fuck off" face
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 12:10
    [michiel] =D
  18. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 13:34
    I remember a few years back at a demo apple showed a siri voice command that was like "what did they say?" that rewound a video 15 seconds and turned on closed captioning/subtitles. Was that just for some apple product (itunes, apple tv), or did that work in all apps and on web pages with video? And does that work anywhere else?
  19. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 13:41
    Oooh lookie here http://simplyaccessible.com/jobs-freelance/tester-consultant/
  20. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 13:51
    oh boo, Windows Phone 10 has Edge 13 instead of 14
  21. @jkva I like the clarity in location
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 13:53
    [scottohara] from my experiences with windows phones, i’m elated to hear that it actually has edge installed
  23. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 13:54
    my boss just got windows 10 on his phone this week and he was surprised and excited
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 13:55
    [scottohara] i’m kinda a fan of microsoft lately. not enough to want to switch back to their products for more than testing…but i’m rooting for them.
  25. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 13:55
    I just added the Ambient Light API to my game and saw that Edge 14 was supposed to support it and wondered if he could get it. My co-worker is super in to Chrome for everything and I thought it'd be amusing to show him an area where mobile Edge and mobile Firefox were better than better Chrome
  26. yeah, same
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 13:59
    [michiel] Brian: WP 10 Anniversary update has 14.
  28. [michiel] And I think that command only works for the Apple TV.
  29. [michiel] Don't know how that would work on a Phone/Tablet.
  30. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 13:59
    there is a WP 10 anniversary update too?
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 13:59
    [michiel] As there Siri disrupts what you're doing.
  32. [michiel] Interrupts*
  33. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:01
    jeez. Yeah, comes out next week
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:03
    [michiel] Well, Windows and Windows Phone are compiled from the same source. So would be very weird if it didn't have Edge 14 :P
  35. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:03
    I just posted on the MS link to copy "what did he say" to all of windows, and suggested it would work even on web pages
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:04
    [michiel] they*
  37. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:04
    yes, they, sorry
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:04
    [michiel] =D
  39. [michiel] Michiel: irritating to the bone.
  40. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:05
    well my boss getting WP10 finally on the day the anniversary update came out made me assume he got an anniversary update version of WP10. Guess that is not the same
  41. heh, I'm like that to my co-workers. I think they're going to enjoy next week when I'm on vacation
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:06
    [michiel] Haha
  43. [michiel] I guess you still need to update the phone when they get it.
  44. [michiel] I just ordered a MS Lumia 650 :)
  45. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:30
    what WP will that have?
  46. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 14:32
    What did he do, have an 8.1 phone and upgraded? How did he do that?
  47. I'm interested in upgrading my phone
  48. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:33
    he had 8.1 and just got the update through AT&T
  49. he actually uses WP as his main personal phone
  50. Android as his work phone
  51. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 14:48
    it's my only phone as well
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:49
    [wesruv] waves!
  53. [wesruv] :wave:
  54. [michiel] waves back
  55. [michiel] Brian: that has WP 10. So easy upgrade next week.
  56. [cehfisher] hey @wesruv! fancy seeing you here
  57. [cehfisher] #chupacabra
  58. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:51
    assuming your carrier pushes it
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 14:51
    [wesruv] hah! nice
  60. [wesruv] @cehfisher: nice avatar :p
  61. [michiel] Brian: I bought it from Amazon without SIM.
  62. [michiel] And I'm assuming Microsoft pushes updates to their own phones?
  63. [michiel] Or should I start regretting buying something else than an iPhone already :P
  64. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 14:58
    my iStuff is just for testing here
  65. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:02
    [michiel] Don't WP and Android get updates from Microsoft and Google respectively?
  66. [michiel] You don't get Windows updates from you laptop vendor right? :see_no_evil:
  67. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:06
    OS updates typically go to the carrier who distributes them. Carriers usually do their own modifications. That's why Android updates typically take forever
  68. Nexus devices get OS stuff faster
  69. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:07
    [michiel] Well that's a stupid thing to do.
  70. [michiel] I guess that's one of the reasons to not buy subsidised phones.
  71. [michiel] :O
  72. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:07
    carriers want to approve certain features and add in there own custom crap
  73. I paid for my S7 outright. It still had some verizon stuff on it. But updates to it seem to be pretty fast
  74. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:09
    [michiel] Hmm, I see I could've also bought it directly from Microsoft.
  75. [michiel] Ah well.
  76. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:10
    getting it from amazon probably means you'll get updates faster
  77. maybe
  78. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:11
    [michiel] Ah, the seller on Amazon was actually Microsoft.
  79. [michiel] So no problems.
  80. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:28
    [michiel] In other news: elevator prices have gone up.
  81. [jonathan.tucker] that’s no surprise. they go up and down all the time
  82. [michiel] =D
  83. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:32
    But what about escalators?
  84. Prices have escalated, last I heard
  85. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:33
    [michiel] =P
  86. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 15:33
    Or go up and down in steps
  87. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:33
    At least when those break, they become stairs
  88. PROGRESSIVE ENHANCEMENT
  89. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 15:33
    :D
  90. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:33
    [michiel] They should put a shop on the first floor and a pawn shop on the top floor of a tall building.
  91. [michiel] So you can buy low and sell high.
  92. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:34
    Dude, go home
  93. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:34
    [michiel] I am home.
  94. [michiel] That's where I work…
  95. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:34
    Ah yes
  96. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:34
    @jkva wouldn't that be graceful degredation?
  97. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 15:34
    Ok, then go out for a walk :D
  98. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:34
    Carry on, then
  99. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:34
    [michiel] Haha
  100. [michiel] I've already gone for a 37km ride this morning :)
  101. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:34
    @powrsurg, I like to think stairs -> escalators. I mean the other way works, but...
  102. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:35
    see I think they're escalators that fall back to stairs when something goes wrong
  103. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:35
    [michiel] I'm with Brian
  104. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:35
    Who's Brian?
  105. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:35
    "if we don't have a working power supply then it falls back to stairs"
  106. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:35
    [michiel] powrsurg
  107. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:35
    I'm Brian
  108. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:35
    Ah
  109. Hi Brian, I'm Job
  110. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:36
    Hi Job
  111. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:36
    \o/ we're best friends now! I'll come over to drink your scotch
  112. Unless Michiel visited already, in case there is no more scotch
  113. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:36
    [michiel] …right, I forgot, that's what you do.
  114. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 04 15:36
    you're welcome to try :p
  115. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 15:36
    Here's a thing, one of the buildings here that we work in has had a huge power problem since last Friday and the lifts (elevators to those of you using US English) haven't worked since. There are 11 floors on that building. Eleven.
  116. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 15:36
    But look at your calves now!
  117. And those quads!
  118. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:37
    [michiel] Quadski!
  119. Ian Devlin
    @iandevlin
    Aug 04 15:37
    So far I haven't had to go there.
  120. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 15:37
    [michiel] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_x1lY7t1p0
  121. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 16:43
    [monastic.panic] :wave: hey team, does anyone have any resources on how the various SR’s handle activedescendant? Specifically different strategies for providing the id’s. As in a list example, id every item and change the aria to match, or have one id and move it the relevant element as focus changes.
  122. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 16:54
    I've seen it seem to work on @jkiss' combobox he built
  123. I couldn't manage to get the other team at work to implement it in our React calendar though :(
  124. http://accessibleculture.org/misc/aria/combobox/combobox.html
  125. I don't have a mac so I had only tested with Orca and NVDA and JAWS
  126. I don't think I did it all cross-browsery tho
  127. I was just having a quick lookthru
  128. however it's hard to tell which is being read out here
  129. because the id's match the contents
  130. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 16:58
    [monastic.panic] http://accessibleculture.org/misc/aria/combobox/combobox.html
  131. [monastic.panic] oops :p
  132. [monastic.panic] nice, thanks. Right now i have a solution that works in react (http://jquense.github.io/react-widgets/docs/#/calendar?_k=zxm4bb) but its really complicated to get it performant
  133. [monastic.panic] part of the reason it’s complicated is that it requires that child components pass up their active descendant, which is not the direction react likes data to go
  134. [monastic.panic] it’d be simper if I could have the parent pass down an “activeId” so that it knows which cell is focused from the top down, instead.
  135. [monastic.panic] however last time I tried that approach, where you move the same id to different elements as focus moved, NVDA, at least, didn’t notice the change.
  136. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 17:03
    I think we were planning on having it passed as props from the keydownhandler
  137. but we only discussed it, they never ended up giving us the unique id's we needed
  138. but thanks for posting that, it gives me something to look at
  139. ours, when we move months, starts all SRs reading a seemingly random set of date numbers
  140. we think maybe in the order React renders, not sure
  141. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 17:04
    [monastic.panic] until recently react made DOM manipulations via properties which I think messed up some SR’s in situations
  142. [monastic.panic] now its using setAttribute/removeAttribute which i would guess is probably better.
  143. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 17:05
    I think we were planning a this.props.activeTD on the table/grid and letting the keyhandlers change that, since after the keyhandler ran it would have a callback that checked the id of the current day
  144. that seems like even m0aR dom manip, removeAttribute
  145. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 17:06
    [monastic.panic] so that’s the “one id we move to different active elements” strategy right?
  146. [monastic.panic] it is more manipulation, but its more correct as well. you don’t end up with like attributes that are empty but on the node
  147. [monastic.panic] tabIndex=“” for instance
  148. [monastic.panic] the code we have right now is actually manually setting the atribute on the nodes, and bypassing react completely
  149. [monastic.panic] otherwise it tries to update to often and it lags :\
  150. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 04 17:10
    :(
  151. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 18:20
    [monastic.panic] anyone have a thought as to why this is not reading out active-descendents: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/XKxNvR?editors=0110
  152. [monastic.panic] first time trying VoiceOver on the mac...
  153. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 18:42
    [jkup] Hey! If I have a div with a background image that is not meaningful to the document. What can I do to get the chrome a11y devtools to not complain "Meaningful images should not be used in element backgrounds (1)"
  154. [monastic.panic] role=“presentation”?
  155. [jkup] thanks!
  156. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 19:30
    [scottohara] that’s weird that you’d need to place that on a div
  157. [jkup] Yeah I really don’t need it to be a div, it’s just an image that I animate around the screen. Would it be better to make it an image with that source and then add the role?
  158. [scottohara] is it literally just a div that you have a background image in? or is it a div that has content in it that also happens to have a background image?
  159. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 19:36
    [michiel] jkva: <img src="froody-hoop.png" alt="">
  160. [michiel] Or to put it another way, is there a reason it's a div/background image and nog an image tag?
  161. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 19:37
    Sorry?
  162. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 19:37
    [jkup] Yeah it has content right now. But I could just as easily separate it into a div (with content) and an image(with src)
  163. [jkup] is that preferable?
  164. [michiel] Oh sorry I've mistaken jkup for jkva :x
  165. [michiel] Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
  166. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 04 19:40
    Happens a lot to me
  167. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 19:40
    [michiel] It's allowed to have background images if they're not content.
  168. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 20:25
    [bkardell] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLp_gfMMGU
  169. [bkardell] \o/
  170. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 20:48
    [robdodson] =D
  171. [robdodson] gonna work on improving our YouTube thumbnail game. We were supposed to have an illlustrator doing them but they bailed last minute :p
  172. [alice] What's the problem with it?
  173. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 21:10
    [michiel] Oeh new episode!
  174. [michiel] <3
  175. [michiel] robdodson: does visibility: hidden; to visibility: visible; trigger a paint?
  176. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 21:18
    [alice] @michiel https://csstriggers.com/visibility =D
  177. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 21:27
    [felicia] hi. forgive me if this was asked recently, but can anyone help me with finding training materials for QA teams? thanks.
  178. [michiel] Thanks Alice! Bookmarked that one!
  179. [alice] @michiel it's the best!
  180. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 21:57

    [robdodson] @felicia: It's not specific to QA but @alice and I put together a multi-week course to teach accessibility fundamentals https://www.udacity.com/course/web-accessibility--ud891

    Note: We're working with Udacity to improve the accessibility of their own site. :p

  181. [felicia] thanks! any mobile in that?
  182. [felicia] and i would need heavy UX and testing segments
  183. [felicia] im really looking to get my testers to understand user journey so we will think more intuitively...
  184. [alice] It's definitely not super heavy on testing
  185. [alice] But there is a lot about understanding the user's perspective
  186. [alice] It's not very prescriptive in terms of UX solutions - more about learning how to check things with the keyboard and with a screen reader, and how to understand the cause of issues
  187. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 22:03
    [robdodson] I feel like @dylanb might have good resources on the UX testing side. axe-core is probably what i'd recommend folks use for testing https://github.com/dequelabs/axe-core
  188. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 22:12
    [felicia] ah yes Dylan hi!
  189. [felicia] prior to learning how to test, i want to get them to understand what we are testing and why. more of the soft skills side to this as a primer.
  190. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 22:36
    [jkiss] @monastic.panic: VO is reading out the activedescendants for me fine in Chrome. In Safari, the listbox keeps losing focus on keydown. Have you tried tabindex=0 on the listbox, and prevent default on the keydown?
  191. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 23:01
    [caesar] @felicia: probably a bit of a link-and-run, but there's a wealth of resources from the WAI around evaluating accessibility: https://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/Overview.html
  192. [caesar] Plus a load more on pretty much every other topic
  193. [felicia] oh yes of course i know…im looking for a semi-packaged solution with a lot of UX guidance. im kinda new here and ive been waist deep in w3 for months…
  194. [felicia] thanks
  195. [caesar] No worries, just thought I'd check :)
  196. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 23:09
    [felicia] :D
  197. [felicia] as a newbie i find w3/wai/wcag has lots of info but not easily organized for my level of familiarity. so ive been scouring for more resources. i like the courses that deque, ssbbart, paciello, knowability and the like have but i will have to cobble things together to suit my org and team.
  198. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 23:21
    [monastic.panic] @jkiss: that's interesting maybe I'm not in the right mode. the rest of the a11y that demo is bad I was trying to see if moving the id around worked though
  199. [caesar] @felicia: I have the same challenge. Half the time I end up building my own, which is probably not the most efficient way of going about it. But like you say, it's something that I can be comfortable with
  200. [caesar] On a separate note, has anybody had a look at the new Stack Overflow Documentation initiative? A few people have started an Accessibility section - I could see this being a very useful resource, in terms of being a one-stop shop for (coding) best practices.
  201. [caesar] $DEITY knows the number of times clients have asked me for code examples and I've had to pull many and various bits from all over the web.
  202. [caesar] Kinda hoping that the brains trust here gets onboard :)
  203. [caesar] http://stackoverflow.com/documentation/accessibility
  204. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 04 23:28
    [cordelia] Have you seen teachaccess.github.io/tutorial/ ?
  205. [cordelia] Unrelated to conversations above: Does anyone have recommended resources for a sighted person trying to learn braille?