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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 5th of August 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 00:48
    [michiel] Cordelia: check this out: http://uebonline.org
  2. [michiel] I found that by looking into my history. My history is weird…
  3. [michiel] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/QTeDnMD8/Screenshot.png
  4. [michiel] alt=search query of “brai” returns 7 results including: UEBOnline (the braille thing), How food affects your brain, How blind people write braille, the backwards brain bicycle, and a search result for “what does brain taste like”…
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 00:54
    [cordelia] @michiel thanks for the link! and the weird screenshot.
  6. [michiel] =D
  7. [michiel] Yeah I don't remember searching for that :P
  8. [cordelia] were you researching what human brain tastes like?
  9. [cordelia] or some other animal’s brain?
  10. [michiel] Come to think of it, I think that search returned something about pigs brain not tasting too good.
  11. [michiel] Maybe I searched for that after my sister told me about her autopsy class.
  12. [michiel] I forget.
  13. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Aug 05 00:56
    Maybe you were just hungry.
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 00:56
    [michiel] It is a weird search query, that's for sure.
  15. [michiel] BRAINS!
  16. [michiel] Woah, fancy seeing you here Garcialo
  17. [michiel] Still biding your time over there?
  18. [michiel] Err, bidding.
  19. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Aug 05 00:57
    I'm always here; just usually too busy to participate.
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 00:58
    [michiel] Well, you're always in our hearts.
  21. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Aug 05 00:58
    :heart_eyes:
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 01:03
    [michiel] I'm back to bed, see y'all later waves
  23. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Aug 05 01:07
    Night
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 02:46
    [robdodson] quick question. Does JAWS or NVDA support aria-controls? Using this example http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/aria/examples/tabpanel2.shtml VoiceOver only reads the content of the tab when you change it. It doesn't read the content of the tabpanel though it seems like it should. I'm wondering if other screen readers do, as that seems like the entire point of aria-controls
  25. [alice] @robdodson I looked into that recently and found http://tink.uk/using-the-aria-controls-attribute/ - seems like it's JAWS/FF only?
  26. [robdodson] thanks @alice, reading now...
  27. [robdodson] ok so since aria-controls is not well supported it sounds like you need to also make the content of the tabpanel focusable (in this example they use a heading http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/aria/examples/tabpanel2.shtml)
  28. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 06:44
    Morning folks
  29. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 05 09:46
    wouldn't it be highly annoying if every tab you were at started reading entire panels?
  30. Wouldn't it just make you want to hurl?
  31. it's like the bug I've got with our keyboardable calendars-- each time you switch to another month, the date numbers start getting read out (and in semi-random order). not cool.
  32. using it means a whole lotta shutup key
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 09:48
    [michiel] Morning all
  34. [michiel] StommePoes: it would drive me 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, aaahhh shut up, nuts!
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 10:32
    [jv] > Android’s market share in India has gone up from 90% to 97%, while Apple’s market share has fallen from 4.5% to 2.4 %
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 10:53
    [michiel] Woah
  37. [michiel] Wasn't Apple banned from selling products there?
  38. [michiel] Or at least with some discount or something.
  39. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:06
    Scenario: I have a button. With a checkmark as text and aria-label="Save". Wouldn't it always be better to have an offscreen <span>Save</span>, so the accessible name is more clear to AT like Dragon Naturallyspeaking?
  40. Unless the aria-label is also considered by Dragon when looking for accessible name.
  41. (Or similar tooling)
  42. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:13
    Aria-label is considered by DNS
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 11:14
    [jv] @michiel: No. Apple is not banned here. Android phone are cheaper
  44. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:14
    @jnurthen: Thanks!
  45. Good stuff
  46. Firefox simply not allowing unsigned extensions anymore. rage
  47. I'll be the judge of that, thank you
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 11:18
    [michiel] Why doesn't the button just say “Save” though?
  49. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:18
    Because of screen space
  50. Simple <click edit> [Save] [Cancel]
  51. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:22
    If you want to use unsigned extensions use Firefox developer edition and flip the configure switch.
  52. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:24
    Developer edition? Huh. You're full of knowledge @jnurthen, I'll buy you a beer Monday
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 11:25
    [michiel] Also pour one for me.
  54. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:25
    When you develop them you need to run them before getting them signed.
  55. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:26
    I just want to test that Dragon extension
  56. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:26
    Xpinstall.signatures.required is the configure option.
  57. Is that not signed?
  58. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:26
    Yeah, which used to work in 'normal' FF
  59. Doesn't seem to be
  60. Not according to FF
  61. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:26
    I swear I have it installed.
  62. Dev edition may not work right with dragon.
  63. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:27
    Huh!
  64. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:27
    Anyhow I find IE works much better with dragon.
  65. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:27
    On a whim I re-installed the FF extension
  66. and it works now
  67. @jnurthen this is Dragon for Mac. It works great on Windows and IE, agreed
  68. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:28
    You can't copy/paste links to XPIs into FF. You have to click on them.
  69. X P I s (that is)
  70. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:30
    Hrm, Dragon Crashed
  71. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:30
    Never used dragon for Mac so can't help there. If it is the same x p i then things should be fine for aria. I took a look through the code and aria-label works (but strangely aria-labelledby is not everywhere)
  72. An X p i is just a zip so easy to look at the code.
  73. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:32
    Ugh. Dragon for Mac is just such a waste of money
  74. Almost everything is misunderstood, you can't control applications... on Windows it's such an useful tool.
  75. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:36
    Well. 95% of dragon users just use it to dictate text. I'm sure it works ok for that.
  76. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:42
    Fair enough
  77. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:43
    Actually. Probably the 100% of Mac dragon people use it for that cause it is useless for anything else :)
  78. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:44
    Nuance keeps telling me to call their support line :-/
  79. Apparently Eric Wright has good experiences with it though
  80. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:45
    Good luck with that.
  81. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:45
    Yeah. Reluctant to do so, and it's a US number too
  82. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 11:45
    Looking forward to a beer on Monday.
  83. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 11:45
    Likewise!
  84. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 12:00
    [michiel] jkva: just use Skype :)
  85. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 12:00
    ...huh?
  86. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 12:00
    [michiel] To call the US number.
  87. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 12:01
    I'd have to get Skype Credit, right?
  88. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 12:01
    [michiel] You do, but it's very cheap after that.
  89. [michiel] That how I deal with all my Dutch number calling to finish up my move :)
  90. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Aug 05 12:02
    What's left at this point? Just service cancellation?
  91. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 12:09
    [michiel] Yeah
  92. [michiel] And trying to get my ISP to cancel my Spotify premium subscription.
  93. [michiel] wants Spotify Family
  94. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 18:41
    [marcysutton] The first five lessons in my Egghead accessibility course were launched yesterday: https://egghead.io/courses/start-building-accessible-web-applications-today
  95. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 19:22
    [sophieschoice_slack] Stupid question perhaps; but when you test with VoiceOver or with NVDA, what are the things you pay attention to? How to know something should be spoken or not?
  96. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 05 20:04
    dunno about voiceover
  97. with NVDA I expect things to sound a certain way, based on all the websites I've visited in the past, same with JAWS.
  98. So with JAWS when I get to an input I expect the label and "edit type in text"
  99. because that's what I've heard
  100. So you take a screen reader through some pages you know are correctly-marked up and see how it prefers to call things
  101. because they do differ a little.
  102. After you're used to hearing certain things, when those things are absent, you notice it.
  103. Basically in Soviet a11ybearLand, websites train you
  104. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Aug 05 20:09
    Ah, getcha. Thanks :D
  105. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 05 20:10
    And I admit I need to do more of it, because at work I'm hitting all sorts of weird constructions and I'm NOT sure how they normally sound
  106. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Aug 05 20:11
    I guess a11y never stops ;)
  107. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Aug 05 20:11
    if those things even have a "normal"
  108. nope
  109. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Aug 05 20:13
    blergh, dating sites are the devil in UX-land :(
  110. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 20:23
    [michiel] OkCupid used to be descent UX wise.
  111. [michiel] Of course their boss is an evil douche.
  112. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 05 20:51
    [lowellreade] @marcysutton: that looks awesome!
  113. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 05 21:02
    https://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/ could help with how things sound.
  114. Šime Vidas
    @simevidas
    Aug 05 21:36
    Quick question: How are screen readers on smartphones used most commonly? Touch gestures, Bluetooth keyboards, something else?
  115. I’m asking because I’ve noticed that in VoiceOver on iPhone, the left/right-swipe focus order is not the same as the keyboard focus order on desktop, since it also includes plain text parts.