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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 22nd of August 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 11:23
    [michiel] Morning Slackers!
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 11:32
    [scottohara] g'mornin
  3. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 22 13:18
    role=drinks needs to make it into someone's page when working on a restaurant site :p
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 14:33
    [michiel] How do you mean?
  5. [jv] sometime FB gives this on some photo alt="No automatic alt text available.”
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 14:39
    [jv] these days my new favourite time pass is check auto generated ALT text on Facebook of photos in my feed
  7. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 22 14:45
    FB really needs to give users the ability to edit it themselves
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 14:55
    [karlgroves] +1
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 15:02
    [jv] if a software doesn’t support html should we use comma (,) where we would use <ul>, or <ol> in HTML?
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 15:07
    [michiel] jv: they should just leave the alt empty if there is no automatic one.
  11. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Aug 22 15:47
    Also, I've had FB add alt text on images in some context but not others (like, clicking on them from your feed vs them just appearing in your feed vs someone sent you the URL to the image). I don't recall when it adds and doesn't though.
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:23
    [bmeunier] How can I hide infos in an <option> so only screen readers can read it?
  13. [bmeunier] Maybe I need to google That.
  14. [michiel] Can you explain the scenario/give an example?
  15. [michiel] Also: http://www.fuckdropdowns.com
  16. [bmeunier] For privacy? For example: social number?
  17. [michiel] Okay, so it's fine if it's announced in public?
  18. [michiel] Let me reword: it wouldn't be fine for that to be announced in public, so no different for screen reader users :)
  19. [bmeunier] It’s not. You can see the social number, but the system must say «Social number ending in 4721»
  20. [bmeunier] You can see it on the screen … but you can say it.
  21. [bmeunier] (What a wierd sentence)
  22. [bmeunier] (I know. I need another coffee.)
  23. [bmeunier] But still, it’s a concern.
  24. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 17:27
    if you can see it on the screen then you should announce it too :)
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:27
    [michiel] Okay, so there would be a mis match between visual and audiable
  26. [bmeunier] Yes.
  27. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 17:28
    if it is a concern then you should not be showing it on the screen either
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:28
    [bmeunier] Imagine you’re in … a airport.
  29. [bmeunier] Hmmm. Imagine you’re at a ATM with a speaker.
  30. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 17:28
    in an airport i wouldn't want it displayed on my screen - especially if i'm using airport wifi :)
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:28
    [bmeunier] (You don’t have a choice)
  32. [bmeunier] I know… it’s a wierd spec.
  33. [bmeunier] But it’s actually what’s happening.
  34. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 17:29
    if the last 4 digits are good enough for a screen reader user to identify the information then why wouldn't it be enough for a visual user?
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:29
    [bmeunier] That’s my point also.
  36. [michiel] So, can you make that change?
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:34
    [bmeunier] I will. I think I need a … you’re my group therapy. You keeping me on the right path.
  38. [michiel] thumbsup emoji
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:42
    [michiel] pours coffee all around
  40. [dean] Talking ATMs have headphone jacks, so the information wouldn’t be shown on screen but read out instead - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_ATM - I think it depends on the problem you are trying to solve here. If it is a consideration then there may be alternative ways to solve it.
  41. [dean] Are there any online banks for example that offer anything different? I presume not.
  42. [dean] I’m decaf only @michiel - week 5 sans caffeine.
  43. [michiel] Woah, nice going!
  44. [michiel] I've tried that once
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 17:51
    [bmeunier] @dean Good example for ATMs. What would be your best alternatives?
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 18:00
    [artistic_abode] I know it's a WCAG 3.2 requirement to include text inside links that open new windows warning the user of this unpredictable behavior. What about phone number links that are click to call? Should these links also contain text for the screen reader that says something like "link dials the phone number" just as we warn people of links that open new windows and PDF files?
  47. [michiel] I'm unsure how those are announced, but seeing how they start with tel:, so should be fine/screen reader should be able to announce that piece of information.
  48. [michiel] Can test in a bit.
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 18:06
    [artistic_abode] I haven't heard the screen reader announce that tel part of the URL before, it just reads whatever you put in for the link text. Each screen reader also reads the numbers differently, it doesn't always sound like a phone number if it says for instance an area code should be 3, 1, 9 but could be read as three hundred nineteen.
  50. [artistic_abode] I think since the link is opening an application instead of another page url it makes sense to include some helper text in there like I would if the link was going to a PDF file. Just want to hear some more opinions. =)
  51. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 18:11
    I'm not aware of it being a WCAG AA requirement that links that load new windows need to have text. It is often (but not always) good practice but not a requirement
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 18:12
    [artistic_abode] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G201.html
  53. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 18:13
    just cause there is a technique it doesn't mean it is required to do so
  54. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 18:14
    [artistic_abode] ah ok
  55. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 18:14
    i mean there is an html attribute that can be used to determine where a link is going to open - if it were important I would have thought screen readers would have picked up on that :)
  56. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 18:33
    [michiel] To confirm artistic_abode: VoiceOver doesn't announce tel in a link.
  57. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 22:04
    [jack_nicolai] I don't know of any UX prototyping tools that have any features geared specifically towards including and communicating accessibility requirements in prototypes. I'd like to change that. What features would you want in a tool like Adobe Experience Design, InVision or Flinto so that you could express accessibility requirements to a team? Feel free to private message me.
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 22:21
    [michiel] jack_nicolai: I'd say colour contrast, as it is actually something such tools could test for.
  59. [marcysutton] Focus states in addition to hover states
  60. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Aug 22 22:27
    I'll go with the simple ones.... what is the alt text for the images, what level headings should be at, what the label should be for my form fields.
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 22:42
    [marcysutton] oooh yes! alt text would be good. Often a forgotten deliverable that could be communicated with visual design
  62. [michiel] I like the focus state one too, it's very easy to do that with current methods.
  63. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 23:11
    [caesar] Tab order, especially for responsive refactoring
  64. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 23:20
    [jack_nicolai] what about focus states would you want to communicate?
  65. [cordelia] Ooh, +1 to all of these. Also, expected keyboard behavior. A lot of prototype tools are catered towards click paths, but would be cool to see more of them include keyboard paths, too.
  66. [jack_nicolai] have this idea of being able to select a group of objects in the design, use a grouping command and being able to assign things like ARIA roles. A single button in one thing, but to assign a role of navigation, footer, main, etc., needs something like that.
  67. [jack_nicolai] @cordelia: how do you define a keyboard path? Is this another way to describe a key combination?
  68. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 23:27
    [cordelia] ex. Imagine a UX flow that involves selecting an option in a dropdown menu. You could provide a click path such as click on menu to expand it, click the selected option, go to next page from there. … But you could also provide a keyboard path: Press enter on menu, use arrow key to select an option. Press enter to go to next page.
  69. [michiel] +1 to keyboard path, that'd be brilliant
  70. [cordelia] Especially useful if designer is trying to design something that relies heavily on hover — how do you get to the hover controls via keyboard?
  71. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 22 23:37
    [jack_nicolai] @cordelia: keyboard paths could use some further exploration. If I am a viewer of a published prototype, how would you like to the details of that keyboard path? Does a description belong at the root of the item it starts from? A top level menu item might have 2+ paths described which could get pretty lengthy. On the other hand, assigning details at each may not be discoverable enough. Perhaps if it were communicated using a breadcrumbs model?