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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 6th of September 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 01:36
    [caesar] Has anybody come across a problem with AngularJS, checkboxes and JAWS reading the opposite states (i.e. "checked" when not checked and vice versa)?
  2. [caesar] On IE11
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 02:26
    [caesar] Seems to be OK on NVDA and Firefox, JAWS and Firefox
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 07:13
    [david_caldwell] @cyberthread: thanks Rebecca - might pick up with you offline to find out more. Sounds like something we already do but interested to learn more
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 08:51
    [jv] don’t know why on my machine voice over opens "mission control"
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 09:15
    [jv] Do you disable mission control in mac before start using Voice over?
  7. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 06 13:28
    Am I the only one that constantly gets stuck on debugging the browser chrome with aViewer, rather than the page itself?
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 14:30
    [jv] any voice over mac expert here?
  9. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 06 14:51
    @jv Not an expert, but I use it fairly often. What's up?
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 14:51
    [jv] The key combinations which Voice over shows on screen doesn’t work
  11. [garcialo] like the ones in the help menu?
  12. [jv] on the screen in a black box
  13. [garcialo] the same black box as when it announces stuff? or is it a larger black box centered on the screen?
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:00
    [jv] same black box as when it announces stuff
  15. [jv] it says press command + option + shift + down arrow to enter in web area but nothing happens when i press that combination
  16. [garcialo] Ah, gotcha. I don’t know much about how those work. I usually ignore them.
  17. [garcialo] What kind of component are you on when it’s giving you the message?
  18. [garcialo] Does it work on a similar page to the one you’re looking at?
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:05
    [garcialo] Are you using Safari? If not, does it work when you go to the same page in Safari?
  20. [jv] I opened a webpage url in google chrome
  21. [jv] Does Safari works better than chrome with Voice over?
  22. [garcialo] yup
  23. [jv] ok I will try chrome
  24. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 15:10
    @JV Safari is the default choice for VO users and it's the only officially VO supported browser. FF and Chrome don't do too badly, but few VO users bother to swap away from Safari in my experience.
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:11
    [jv] ok
  26. [jv] Is there a way to copy on screen messages which voice over shows?
  27. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 15:14
    I wonder if Typeform works with Freelancers so I can fix their stuff
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:15
    [jv] The problem is same with Safari
  29. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 15:15
    @JV sort of, yes. You can turn on the braille panel which will show you what a braille display displays but in text https://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/_1135.html
  30. I assume VO's braille translation tables mean the braille output is near as dammit the same as the speech output, but I don't read braille so can't be sure.
  31. @jkva worth pinging them. I don't think it would be difficult to fix.
  32. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 15:17
    Ha, their website slogan is "A beautiful way to interact with <strike>users</strike> humans"
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:21
    [jv] No even Braille message can’t be copied
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:28
    [jv] too much work done by voice over to pronounce a simple text
  35. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 06 15:35
    @jv I wonder if something special needs to be turned on?
  36. I wouldn't know what.
  37. You also didn't have access to Hindi on your Mac even though Michiel did.
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:40
    [michiel] New confirmed speaker for role=drinks October 8th: https://twitter.com/roledrinks/status/773183616503386112
  39. [michiel] is shameless =D
  40. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 15:43
    :D
  41. I've DM'ed Typeform, asking if we can work together. Who knows, worth a shot.
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:44
    [michiel] You should ask for a million bucks.
  43. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 15:45
    @michiel: Can I have a million bucks?
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 15:59
    [jv] Do screen reader likes to listen the word bullet before every unordered list item?
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:04
    [michiel] Do sighted users like to see bullets before every unordered list item?
  46. [michiel] I'll go home now…
  47. [jv] Often bullets are hidden by designer
  48. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 16:06
    @jv yes, hearing "bullet" is useful IMO.
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:08
    [jv] ok
  50. [michiel] I'd argue it's the same as the visual cue.
  51. [michiel] Designers being designy and hiding bullets is just weird.
  52. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 16:09
    +1
  53. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 16:10
    Nice example of false simplicity
  54. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:11
    [jv] They have to hide sometime for example navigation
  55. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 06 16:13
    @jv yeah, so it's semantics again. "Is this a list of bullet points?"
  56. Product features, for instance
  57. It comes down to semantics, whether visual or not.
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:14
    [jv] And also when <li> has other tags too
  59. [jv] Like Events section on this page https://www.w3.org/
  60. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 16:16
    I think a nav block is the exception to the rule.
  61. If you remove the list-style-type on an ul though, you lose the li semantics - at least by announcement.
  62. li navigation still works.
  63. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:17
    [jv] In a scenarios when we think our list doesn’t have just bullet points is there a way to prevent Voice over announce Bullet for every list item?
  64. [jv] oh ok
  65. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 06 16:18
    Yup use list-style-type: none;
  66. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 16:20
    [jv] Nice
  67. [jv] it works
  68. [jv] Is li inside <ul style="list-style-type: none”> and wrapped in <nav> best way for Navigation?
  69. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 06 17:12
    It's basically what I do, yeah. nav ul {list-style: none;}
  70. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 17:27
    [jv] Do you wrap in <nav> or <nav role=“navigation”>?
  71. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 06 18:21
    you really shouldn't need the role with nav
  72. Is there anything that triggers a Virtual Buffer to update besides adding/removing children, and changing the display/visibility?
  73. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 06 18:28
    Should an image (or more likely its container) be marked as a live region if the src/alt are the only things updated?
  74. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 06 18:38
    I've found in the past that changing alt doesn't always trigger live region updates anyway... I believe I logged a bug somewhere. No idea if it has been fixed.
  75. looks like it was NVDA and they fixed it - nvaccess/nvda#3329
  76. disaster - I'm down to my last stroopwafel :worried:
  77. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 06 18:43
    Well, what I meant was that you would need to mark something as a live region if that was the only thing updated, correct?
  78. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Sep 06 18:43
    if you wanted it to be read out yes
  79. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 06 18:44
    Thought so
  80. I'm writing up some docs to hand new devs who aren't familiar with working with a11y and I swore that was how Virtual Buffers but my googling today doesn't seem to be returning straight up documentation on that.
  81. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 06 19:08
    [jv] https://twitter.com/hellogeri/status/773170088535007232
  82. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 06 21:22
    @jv cool