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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 13th of September 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 00:01
    [alacker] +1, the more information you can give the better, but if you don't know the code to fix it, I wouldn't worry about it too much, the STR should be a good first step
  2. [cordelia] Definitely!
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 00:07

    [dean] I just opened an old file and as a non-coder (or at least not any more), here’s a sample error I logged:

    The search box immediately gets focus In the first instance the person has arrived at this page because they want to see the content, and not to perform a new search immediately. The search box is not announced, so keyboard commands are entered directly into the search box, and do not perform actions. Do not set focus on the search box on the item pages.

    It’s not technical, but it’s probably enough for the dev guys to go and fix it.

  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 00:42
    [alacker] Yea, I like it. I tried re-writing it in my bug template to see if I would do anything different and I think all the same content is there 
    Do not set focus on the search box on the item pages on page load.  STR: go to item page see that search box has focus before the user does anything  Expected: nothing has focus until the user tries to focus on something.  When you give focus on page load the user has no context for why they are there, and may not want to search immediately. It is also hijacking the keyboard so that a user has to hit “esc” before they can use their keyboard for any functionality like searching the page with cmd-f or using other programmed shortcuts.
  5. [alacker] I tend to try to frame things in "more-than-just-screenreader" terms when I can (which you also did)
  6. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 06:41
    Morning folks
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 06:42
    [caesar] Greetings
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 06:52
    [lillianszugyi] I’m not sure if this is the place for introductions, but I wanted to say I’ve been enjoying the conversations happening here on this channel. I am new to learning about accessibility so there’s been a lot of topics over my head. :)
  9. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 06:53
    welcome! make sure and ask questions
  10. most people don't bite
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 06:55
    [lillianszugyi] So, I’m reading these through Slack and so many of these, like yours @garcialo, say ‘BOT’, and I’m like uhh… what are all these bots doing here? This was a while back that I had noticed, but still makes me lol
  12. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 06:56
    Ah, a bridge was set up with Gitter because of some issues with Slack
  13. Some people prefer Gitter because it's open, doesn't require a login to lurk, and I think it's interoperability with IRC gives better information or something; not too clear on that last part
  14. Some people prefer Slack because it's what they use at work
  15. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 06:58
    Some of us use the IRC bridge =)
  16. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 06:58
    ...and probably other reasons, but I wouldn't know what they are
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 06:59
    [lillianszugyi] I find that Slack gets to be overwhelming for me. I have several channels that I’m on and I want to browse through everything, but I can’t get anything done. I turn the notifications off, but still. I’ll check out Gitter sometime
  18. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 06:59
    Here's the link if you want to lurk. https://gitter.im/w3c/a11ySlackers
  19. And if you want, you can login via GitHub to chat
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 07:15
    [lillianszugyi] ah, cool. thank you.
  21. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 07:16
    garcialo++
  22. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:18
    It sounds like there are a few of you with a background in UX, web dev, design, etc... do you work primarily in those areas, with a focus on a11y, or are now a11y practitioners?
  23. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:20
    I mostly got into it through doing assessments since that's the job that fell into my lap.
  24. Now I'm doing Product Management
  25. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:24
    I'm going through a career transition and have been taking courses in UX, have taken a couple coding bootcamps for front end dev. I am interested in learning about accessibility because I think the web needs to be made available to everyone. Being so new in all these areas, I am curious what my job prospects will be once I feel I have learned enough, and done enough portfolio work to apply for jobs.
  26. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:24
    Ah, cool. We could definitely use more dev/designer folks in a11y
  27. Accessibility in general is a pretty niche field right now, so it shouldn't be too hard to find something
  28. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:27
    somehow my first impression was that the types of companies interested in accessibility are either large corporations that don't want to get sued, or smaller firms that help those big corporations. I hope I am wrong.
  29. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:28
    Yeah, that's accurate enough.
  30. Not wanting to get sued usually prompts big corps to get some a11y folk; once in there though, they start building empathy from within
  31. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:30
    hmm. I will keep that in mind.
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 07:35
    [dean] My job title is still UX Designer, Lillian. However I started to get really interested in Accessibility a number of years ago after attending a @feather workshop. I made a lot of changes at that company, then went freelance for a bit, then returned to full time when a company that builds AAC apps advertised for a full time UXer. It might be a ‘Europe thing’ but it was the first UX position with an Accessibility tie in that I’ve ever seen, bonus was it was in my city.
  33. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:38
    yeah, more and more places are putting (or trying to put) accessibility skills in their front end job postings
  34. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:43
    @zakim-robot very cool!
  35. er, @dean
  36. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:43
    hah, there is no escaping bots
  37. Lillian Szugyi
    @lillianszugyi
    Sep 13 07:44
    I feel like there is a UX opportunity here somewhere... ;-)
  38. anyway, it's near 1am for me. time for sleep. nice to chat with you all!
  39. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 07:45
    oh geez; it is
  40. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 07:57
    Good night lillianszugyi
  41. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 08:18
    Making an accessible game, http://taustation.space/blog/making-tau-station-an-accessible-game/
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 09:17
    [michiel] Morn.
  43. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 09:18
    o
  44. o/
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 09:19
    [michiel] \o
  46. Fiona Holder
    @FionaHolder
    Sep 13 09:21
    morning
  47. quick question, which of the methods in this documentation is the "best" way to make content visible to screen reader users but not sighted users? http://stackoverflow.com/documentation/accessibility/4995/developing-for-screen-reader-users#t=201609130922311137047
  48. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 09:26
    @FionaHolder: personally I'd go with the TPG method
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 09:35
    [michiel] That sounds like a electronic rock band.
  50. [michiel] https://open.spotify.com/track/59Q1PaOL7SWpJqkKVhewP6
  51. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 09:44
    Crystal method, haven't heard them in ages
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 10:08
    [michiel] “There is no escaping”—@garcialo
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 11:55
    [car] @lillianszugyi Just FYI, there's a #jobs channel on Slack where people post a11y jobs. (Note that the other Slack channels aren't available on Gitter because only the #general channel is piped).
  54. Fiona Holder
    @FionaHolder
    Sep 13 12:47
    Where is the slack and how do I get access?
  55. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 12:59
    @FionaHolder https://web-a11y.herokuapp.com/
  56. Fiona Holder
    @FionaHolder
    Sep 13 13:01
    Thanks! Prefer gitter on desktop but slack on mobile :)
  57. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 13:02
    Gotcha. I do both on both. 😛
  58. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 13:09
    Actually surprised to see <dl> being encouraged to mark up dialogues in the html4 spec. Learn something new every day :)
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 13:11
    [michiel] html4 spec…
  60. [michiel] DL back then was a definition list, it’s now a description list.
  61. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 13:20
    Even then. Just seems weird.
  62. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Sep 13 13:31
    Some people retconned it to "dialog list"
  63. and an FAQ can be seen as very similar to an interviewer asking questions and someone answering
  64. However the styling limitations and the fact that no AT picked up on any real semantics, along with those who wanted to rather have no DLs in HTML at all... it got downgraded
  65. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 13:35
    grumble grumble vague grumble
  66. dothedesign
    @dothedesign
    Sep 13 13:35
    Hey all, noob question but I am new to TFS and I don't understand what a build is. Can anyone point me in the direction of a very basic understanding? Does doing a build mean pushing a set of files to a server?
  67. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 13:36
    dothedesign: In general, a build is a finished, compiled, processed, assembled version of the developed product.
  68. "Doing a build" usually means [automated] compilation, testing, processing (minification, compression) of components into a final build.
  69. Depends on your stack, of course.
  70. dothedesign
    @dothedesign
    Sep 13 13:37
    Thanks @jkva that gives me a place to start researching :)
  71. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 13:38
    dothedesign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_build
  72. dothedesign
    @dothedesign
    Sep 13 13:38
    Awesome!
  73. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 14:46
    [car] @jkva Someday, <dialog> will JustWork. ;)
    http://w3c.github.io/html/interactive-elements.html#the-dialog-element
  74. [car] (accessibly, everywhere)
  75. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 13 14:47
    Dialog has just been ripped out of HTML5.1 for lack of browser support.
  76. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 14:47
    [car] :(
  77. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Sep 13 14:47
    Bah.
  78. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 14:47
    [car] @ljwatson I hope that's not going to happen to <menu> ?
  79. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 13 14:48
    No, menu has at least two implementations... but we did remove type="toolbar" for lack of support.
  80. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 14:48
    [car] :(
  81. [car] Oh well, <ul> and <li> forever, then.
  82. luis garcia
    @garcialo
    Sep 13 14:49
    They probably removed <dialog> to make room for <carousel
  83. Léonie Watson
    @LJWatson
    Sep 13 14:49
    Heh.
  84. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 14:49
    [car] <chuckle>
  85. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 15:24
    [michiel] “Make room for <carousel>”—@garcialo
  86. [garcialo] Don’t put closing gator mouths in my mouth!
  87. [michiel] General question: anyone here from Oxford?
  88. [garcialo] If you’re going to quote me, at least keep the typos
  89. [michiel] My OCD won't let me.
  90. [fionaholder] I worked in Oxfordshire for a few years
  91. [michiel] But you're not say close enough to grab a drink? :P
  92. [michiel] I just want to make friends :(
  93. [garcialo] I’ll be your friend
  94. [michiel] (and garcialo to pay for the drinks)
  95. [fionaholder] Not quite, in Leicester / Rutland now :)
  96. [garcialo] Sure, I’ll pay
  97. [garcialo] Just tell them to put it on my tab
  98. [michiel] You're already my friend garcialo, that doesn't count :P
  99. [michiel] What's in your tabpanel garcialo?
  100. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 15:29
    [michiel] fionaholder: age :(
  101. [garcialo] I don’t know think we have one now that you mention it
  102. [garcialo] dang, I almost gave you a great quote to mine; darned typos
  103. [michiel] “I don't think”—@garcialo
  104. [garcialo] “I don’t think, garcialo” -@michiel
  105. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 15:35
    [michiel] Hahaha
  106. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 15:40
    [michiel] Did someone say carousel? http://ianmcburnie.github.io/mindpatterns/carousel/
  107. [michiel] Ebay thinks they’re great!
  108. [garcialo] I can’t comment on that last statement. :p
  109. [michiel] Haha
  110. [garcialo] But I am rather proud of that carousel.
  111. [michiel] Of course you are.
  112. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 13 16:32
    great alt text
  113. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 16:37
    [michiel] <font size="42"><img src="" alt="Some alt text"></font>?
  114. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 18:49
    [laylah] hiya folks! New to this group... was wondering if anyone has any resources for designers?
  115. [laylah] I mean interaction designers?
  116. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 19:08
    [cordelia] https://medium.com/salesforce-ux/7-things-every-designer-needs-to-know-about-accessibility-64f105f0881b#.2x8nnc8uw
  117. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 19:17
    [marcysutton] This one from WebAIM is great too: http://webaim.org/resources/designers/
  118. [michiel] If you want to know more about keyboard interaction for particular design patterns: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  119. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 20:18
    [jhausler] Is there a standard keystroke command for indent/outdent while in a rich text editor?
  120. [jhausler] i dont want keyboad users to have to jump through hoops to leave the rich text field, so i want to wave tab/shift+tab for that purpose.. but i need to make indent/outdent possible as well.
  121. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 20:44
    [michiel] Commonly used: cmd+[ / ]
  122. [michiel] cmd+[ for outdent, cmd+] for indent :)
  123. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 20:49
    [jhausler] nice. thanks!
  124. [jhausler] waht editors use that do you know?
  125. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 20:55
    [michiel] Atom.io, TextMate also I believe.
  126. [michiel] checks
  127. [michiel] TextMate, check
  128. [michiel] Atom, check
  129. [michiel] CodePen, check
  130. [michiel] I don’t have Sublime, so you’ll have to check that yourself.
  131. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 21:02
    [drtomlins] ok folks, anyone know where I can find some stats on cognitive and motor disabilities in the US? Found a number of sources, but not broken out like this, they tend to lump the 2 into a single category
  132. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 21:10
    [karlgroves] CDC, US Census Bureau, and Dept. of Labor keep track of disability stats. Also, try
    https://www.disabilitystatistics.org/
  133. [drtomlins] Thanks. I have been digging through that 2nd site for a couple of hours, trying to find a breakout I could use.
  134. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 13 22:11
    [jhausler] Thanks @michiel !