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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 7th of December 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 00:57
    [melsumner] Does anyone know how mobile application frameworks handle the different accessibility SDKs?
  2. [melsumner] (Thinking Cordova, PhoneGap, etc)
  3. [caesar] Maybe a question for #native-mobile?
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 01:11
    [melsumner] Thanks @caesar
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 03:09
    [miwayha] @cordelia thank you for testing. I did a bit more testing on my end, and I’m not sure what changed it, but the combination of wrapping all of the code in a main and changing my .visually_hidden css also helped. (also, the question becomes moot if you just switch from groups navigation to DOM navigation :p :p :p )
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 03:21
    [miwayha] although that’s a general question… when people test with voiceover, do they leave the screenreader in DOM navigation, or do they sometimes use groups navigation?
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 04:46
    [caesar] Good question. I'm interested in the answer too.
  8. [caesar] We've got a client whose website is a nightmare in Groups mode
  9. Sean Elliott
    @seanus1138
    Dec 07 05:37

    Hey guys, i was just wondering what is the best practices for an accessible loading"modal/overlay". We are building a shopping cart system where once a user selects their seats an "overlay" appears there is nothing to interact with in the overlay (no buttons or links) its just something to cover the content and show a spinner. Untill the page reloads.

    Do you treat this sort of loading modal/overlay the same a normal overlay (shift the focus to overlay, hide the content outside the overlay). Or can a aria-live="assertive" text area be enough??

  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 05:41
    [caesar] I think some issues to consider are how long the load is expected to take, and what happens to the screen once loading is complete
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 14:01
    [conley] I would hide it altogether from the screen reader.
  12. [conley] and have some kind of alert notifying the user that content is loading
  13. [conley] *a visually-hidden div with role of alert
  14. [felix.berger] Hello there - one short question ... would you rate a html document lacking h1 headline as passing wcag aa?
  15. [conley] it would fail SEO more importantly :)
  16. [conley] I dont think it's a requirement as it provides context for the page
  17. [conley] And if you have a skip nav, that's the focus
  18. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 14:11
    [felix.berger] thx a lot!! and i guess it would fail https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#robust also :)
  19. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Dec 07 14:55
    Does anyone have a valid use case to make anchors have a role of "presentation"? What am I missing?
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 16:09
    [melsumner] Isn't the second rule of ARIA to not alter interactive elements?
  21. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 07 16:21
    @seanus1138 there's aria-busy to consider.
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 07 16:27
    [karlgroves] Unfortunately aria-busy doesn’t have much (any?) support
  23. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 16:49
    @jkva just anchors or links?
  24. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Dec 07 16:49
    @jnurthen anchors
  25. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 16:49
    if its an anchor then I'm not sure what harm it would do - but I don't see any benefit either
  26. just seems like wasted bytes
  27. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Dec 07 16:51
    @jnurthen it does override the anchor's native semantics, no?
  28. For any element with a role of presentation and which is not focusable, the user agent MUST NOT expose the implicit native semantics of the element (the role and its states and properties) to accessibility APIs. However, the user agent MUST expose content and descendant elements that do not have an explicit or inherited role of presentation. Thus, the
  29. presentation role causes a given element to be treated as having no role or to be removed from the accessibility tree, but does not cause the content contained within the element to be removed from the accessibility tree. (https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#presentation)
  30. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 16:52
    what native semantic?
  31. https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/#docconformance
  32. a without href has none
  33. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Dec 07 16:53
    Why would there be an anchor without href?
  34. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 16:53
    that is a target... that is why i asked anchor or link?
  35. if you are talking a with an href then yes I agree you definitely should not do that.
  36. unless you have added tabindex=-1 and ensured that it doesn't take focus (and there is another way of doing the same thing)
  37. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Dec 07 16:58
    @jnurthen Wanted to make sure I was not overlooking a valid use case, thanks.
  38. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 16:59
    well - I have done this before - but only if you ensure that the link can never get focus
  39. (my use case is where there is more than one way to do the same thing - although you have to be really careful to ensure you don't mess up VO users when doing that)
  40. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Dec 07 18:46
    What are the thoughts in here on CSS grids since they're shipping in Firefox/Chrome in march? I feel like being able to re-order the way things appear avoids progressive web advocacy, and should cause a11y issues
  41. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 18:47
    going to have to be very careful with them - it really depends on how they are used but they seem to have the same issues as other css layouts like flexbox
  42. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Dec 07 18:53
    Yeah, I expect some major problems. The SEO community could love it, but without support from Safari they'll hold off on using it I think
  43. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 18:54
    fyi there is an a11y CSS Task Force in w3c (APA and CSS WGs) - sounds like you might be interested in it
  44. contact Janina if you are interested
  45. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Dec 07 18:58
    I've always gone back and forth on wanting to join that stuff. I definitely care, but I get obsessive over this stuff and need to actively fight myself from having all of my time taken up by various interests. I've never gotten that work/life balance worked out.
  46. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 18:58
    oh - I understand that. I have cut back my w3c involvement because I don't have enough time.
  47. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Dec 07 19:02
    I'm the type of person that has responded to clients/my boss' emails while running a marathon ....
  48. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 19:11
    I'm the type of person who would never do that (run a marathon that is)
  49. completely non accessibility related question. Anyone got any opinions on the best online backup solution. I was using crashplan but my subscription has just run out and just got a new computer so may be time to move to somthing else
  50. Mark Sadecki
    @cptvitamin
    Dec 07 21:15
    Just an FYI, in case this helps anyone else, but if you have an aria-live region on a login page, informing users that an error has occurred, that message will not be read if the browser decides its going to offer to remember their User/pass for them. This happens on Windows with JAWS and NVDA. Using aria-live=assertive doesn't fix it, but oddly, role=alert does.
  51. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 07 21:47
    sounds like a browser / screenreader bug to me which should be logged
  52. but I will remember that as I'm sure I will hit it one day. thanks.
  53. Mark Sadecki
    @cptvitamin
    Dec 07 21:53
    I just found another odd one. We have a series of buttons that have "tooltips" on them. The tooltips appear on button focus. The buttons were NOT WORKING AT ALL for ONLY NVDA users of Firefox. After changing a CSS property of right:0 to right:0px on the tooltip, the buttons started working again...
  54. Mark Sadecki
    @cptvitamin
    Dec 07 22:50
    ah actually, it's not the right property alone. has something to do with position: absolute. Still digging into root cause of this...