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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 13th of December 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Dec 13 14:23
    so my co-worker's NVDA setup stopped actually talking, but the focus highlight plugin was going. He had to reset his config to get it to speak. Any idea what setting he may have activated? I've never seen that
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 15:37
    [quidkid] so i got a review back from an accessibility group regarding the website i was remediating, and one of the issues were "Any page that contains links to PDFs needs to also include a link to download an application to read them. “ what should i be linking to and what would be an elegant way to do it? right now it’s like "linkname (PDF)” going to one target. should i link the (PDF) part to the application to read them and what application should i be linking to
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:07
    [karlgroves] Antiquated 508 rule.
  4. [karlgroves] I’d respond back: “Stop being pedantic. It is 2016. Users know where to get Acrobat Reader if it isn’t already installed"
  5. [mattmay] Also, the 508 clause is about pointing to apps if the browser can't handle it, and every modern OS and browser has its own PDF component.
  6. [karlgroves] +1

  7. [karlgroves] Also, FWIW I think you’ve done a good thing by declaring the file type in the link

    "linkname (PDF)”

  8. [mattmay] Now, if you're using PDF features that are beyond what third-party viewers can handle, then I think there should be a link. But that's like 1% of what's out there.
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:19
    [quidkid] lolol ok so how do I word that to be client friendly @karlgroves
  10. [karlgroves] Who did the review?
  11. [quidkid] a third party that the client hired
  12. [quidkid] slash is partnered with
  13. [karlgroves] Use Matt May’s words. He works for Adobe. ;)
  14. [quidkid] The thing is our client’s audience are older folks.. I’m not sure they will honestly know where to get Acrobat reader.
  15. [karlgroves] Then the site shouldn’t have PDFs on it.
  16. [mattmay] Hard to argue that.
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:29
    [quidkid] it’s mixed generational but okeydokey i’ll tell them that. honestly it seems they are pretty lax about it
  18. [quidkid] is that a 508 thing or is that a WCAG AA thing?

  19. [karlgroves] I know these answers aren’t really helpful, in terms of being directly actionable.

    This 3rd party that did the accessibility review did a poor job (unless the client was super-hardcore about adhering to the letter of 508, which I’ve seen)

    You can directly address this by adding a blurb somewhere on the page - or even on its own page - that has a link to PDF reader. Some people put it in the footer. Some people put it at the end of the content. None of these are ideal, really. But let’s face it, the truth is - as Matt mentioned - all Operating systems and browsers can handle PDFs, and even if a PDF reader isn’t installed the browser will often handle sending the user where they need to go

  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:42
    [quidkid] @karlgroves @mattmay thank you so much guys!! i really do appreciate it. sent off an email asking whether it is really necessary given(what Matt said) and if it is, how exactly they want me to directly address this(since they are doing the review I’m sure they have an idea of what they are looking for)
  21. [karlgroves] Are they asking for the site to work with JS turned off, too? (only half joking)
  22. [quidkid] it’s a static microsite so i think it does work with JS turned off haha...
  23. [quidkid] another confusing finding was how i had a hamburger icon in a button for a menu and apparently focus is going from the button to the hamburger svg for their test(but not for me) and in their print screen you can see i put tabindex=-1 on the svg so no idea whats going on there
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:47
    [quidkid] they also said i had a color contrast error but I know i didn’t find any with the WAVE toolbar. they had a bit of beef with a low contrast color, but that is fine as long as you use a large fontsize which i did.
  25. [quidkid] and then there is this one i dunno how to fix: "• At the smallest breakpoint, text under the menu is read by screen readers. Any content that is visually hidden should be hidden from users of assistive technologies as well. See the screenshot of NVDA reading all of the content that is visually hidden below."
  26. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 13 16:48
    if you have background images / gradients pretty much all contrast testers may give false negatives
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 16:48
    [quidkid] no background image for the text in question
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 17:10

    [alexlande] does anyone know if there are cases where <img src=‘foo.png’ alt /> is treated differently than <img src=‘foo.png’ alt=’’ /> ?

    (I ask because React automatically converts the empty string to a boolean, and I’m not sure if I need to do something about that. The boolean seems to work OK on VoiceOver and TalkBack, at least.)

  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 17:37
    [alice] I don't know the answer to that, sorry. My feeling is that they are equivalent, especially since setting the attribute to the empty string via setAttribute() will make it a "boolean" in the markup
  30. [alice] However I have another question if folks are around
  31. [alice] whatwg/html#2171 <-- concerns <dialog> which is being implemented in gecko (!!)
  32. [alice] my reading is that the spec suggests that non-modal dialogs should be a tab trap, but that Chrome has not implemented that
  33. [alice] I feel like this is actually better
  34. [alice] Otherwise a non-modal dialog would steal focus for keyboard users
  35. [alice] Does anyone else have thoughts on this? @marcysutton @karlgroves @jnurthen :)
  36. [karlgroves] @alice: reading
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 17:42
    [karlgroves] IMO the short answer is they should lean on ARIA patterns for guidance.
  38. [alice] "F6 is the recommended key to move focus between the application and an open non-model dialog."

  39. [alexlande] > via setAttribute()

    Oh, right. I didn’t think about it, but that’s all React is doing under the hood. Thanks @alice, makes sense to me thumbsup emoji

  40. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 17:48
    [alice] @karlgroves I commented on the bug and mentioned you, thanks.
  41. [karlgroves] thx
  42. [alice] lolsob F6 in chrome is a synonym for ctrl+L
  43. [karlgroves] “lolsob” I wish there was an emoji for this
  44. [alice] yeah
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 17:54
    [marcysutton] (sob emoji)
  46. [alice] :upside_down_face: is kinda close
  47. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:00
    [winston] lolsob.png
  48. [winston] we use that in our slack
  49. [winston] also helpful is
  50. [winston] bloodtears.png
  51. [winston] (alt for the first: a deflate emoji with tears)
  52. [alice] gah
  53. [alice] ebola emoji
  54. [alice] do not want
  55. [winston] (alt for the second: a sobbing emoji face but with tears of blood)
  56. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:07
    [karlgroves] LMAO @ ebola emoji
  57. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Dec 13 18:19
    F6 doesn't seem to do anything on my mac when running chrome.
  58. CTRL+L moves to the address bar but F6 doesn't
  59. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 13 18:29
    @quidkid about "focussing on the SVG" perhaps they were testing in IE.
  60. Some screen readers on IE will read out the SVG (if there's anything to read out), others will have a silent tab stop.
  61. It's IE supporting the focusable attribute in SVGs, which was part of SVG Tiny way back when. Edge has fixed this, but I guess IE will just continue to have it.
  62. I ... guess you could put focusable="false" on the thing. We haven't done that but we would if we got a lot of users getting confuzled now that we've switched from font icons to svgs.
  63. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:33
    [alexlande] yeah, we use focusable=‘false’ on all of our SVGs. Otherwise tabbing is really annoying for IE users
  64. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 13 18:33
    Hmm...
  65. Maybe I should consider it then. Who knows, some page might use bazillions of icons
  66. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:35
    [alexlande] yeah, we have lots of lists with icons for each list item, or icons indicating whether a field is valid/invalid, etc
  67. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 13 18:35
    what industry?
  68. just curious, I might have to get an OK
  69. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:35
    [alexlande] ecommerce
  70. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 13 18:35
    k
  71. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 18:37
    [quidkid] @StommePoes yeah they were definitely testing in IE and IE is definitely the one browser i didn’t test. XD thank you!
  72. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Dec 13 19:26
    IE is a good browser to test in... a lot of AT works really well with it, influencing user choice. Or sometimes they don't even really have a choice.
  73. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Dec 13 23:45
    [tylersticka] Responsive nav a11y question