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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 7th of February 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 00:22
    [shawn.henning] <snark>So if you like it you shoulda put a live region on it>/snark>
  2. [shawn.henning] Threading seems to work okay in the iOS app. I'm annoyed at the behavior in the channel list as the item under Hash reads as an unread channel, but I am sure they will fixthis soon. Right @george_zamfir
  3. [shawn.henning] I have not made big use of it in any slack instance for reasons stated above abut important messages getting missed.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 01:12
    [spell] Super quick question a11y peeps. I know you are supposed to add alt text to images that are within hyperlinks, but what if text is included alongside image? For example: <a href="..."><img src="..." alt="..."> Company name</a>. Let's also say img is company logo. Is alt necessary here?
  5. [cordelia] In that case, I’d do alt=“”
  6. [cordelia] Since any alt text you’d add would likely be redundant to the Company name text next to it.
  7. Matt Stauffer
    @mattstauffer
    Feb 07 01:17
    @StommePoes Thanks for your help! I have control in this case—I just didn’t full understand aria-live at that point.
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 01:24
    [spell] Thanks @cordelia
  9. oiaohm
    @oiaohm
    Feb 07 03:24
    I was watching the one Fosdom video on accessibility and something crossed my mind. Person said to developers to use screen readers. Then I remember how many office/developer computers I had seen without speakers or headphones. So what we have is effectively the deaf attempting to make interface for the blind and of course it not turning out too well. I know it sounds completely stupid but there seams to be tool missing being a screen reader that in fact write to screen and blanks out the screen as if vision is lost. So those developers with vision who are either deaf due to hardware limitations or really deaf can test out the accessibility interfaces for the blind.
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 04:21
    [caesar] I kinda know what you mean. I've always wondered why it's so difficult for SR to output their "script" onscreen (stdout) when they do it for Braille Readers. NVDA has a mode, but it's clunky (especially if you forget to turn off mouse mode). JAWS history mode outright sucks. VoiceOver is probably the best of the lot, but I wish you could actually access the transcript, not just see it on screen
  11. Srinivas Yedhuri
    @sri429
    Feb 07 05:53
    Hey, Is there a setting for screen reader users (esp Jaws) to disable accessibility description? Do screen reader users always listen to the description (aria-describedby/title based on the calculation).
  12. I was of the assumption that after users are used to an application they will disable the description and navigate quickly.
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 09:06
    [michiel] sitaggart: editors draft is here: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/
  14. [michiel] TR is updated regularly
  15. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 10:48
    @oiaohm @caesar I use NVDA's output for when giving talks/demos over anything browser-based, since the sound otherwise never makes it through.
  16. But why text only in a screen reader? zoomText also reads out controls etc out loud, that also can't be tested without hearing. And Dragon/speech can't be tested without a microphone.
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 11:04
    [michiel] I’m so happy right now:
  18. [michiel] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4vu0ze4L/IMG_3023.jpg
  19. [michiel] alt: A sticker of the role=drinks logo on my laptop. The logo is the universal design icon where the human is holding a bottle and a cocktail and some bubbles are coming from its head.
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 11:38
    [dean] Nice!! :)
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 11:46
    [michiel] Thanks :D
  22. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:03
    Has anyone done a test of UAs/AT with aria-sort?
  23. ie, does it make any AT say anything about whether something's been sorted some certain way or not?
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:04
    [tink] Jaws certainly supports it.
  25. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:09
    oh cool. That's nice to hear.
  26. I have a scrollable-body sortable-table with clickable tr's to deal with... bleh.
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:11
    [tink] Ugh. I've been working on a sortable tables script (sans jQuery etc.).
  28. [tink] Really should finish it :)
  29. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:12
    Looking around, so many people are using two separate tables, which I really don't wnat to do.
  30. So instead thinking of a single table and with JS just copy the thead and layer that as a new thingie visually on top of the table
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:12
    [tink] No, though if memory serves, Gez Lemmon has a solution on his Juicy Studio blog somewhere for that...
  32. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:12
    Paul O'Brien had a good one on SitePoint long ago, but it seems to have vanished
  33. I'm also wondering if I should avoid changing the display state of the table for the scrolly... it at least used to be, some SRs listened to those CSS display states... I want my table to definitely be and be navigable as, a table.
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:13
    [tink] http://juicystudio.com/index.php
  35. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:14
    wed I'm showing some QA guys how to table-nav-- they opened bug reports becuase they couldn't tab to all parts of the table, ug
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:14
    [tink] Oops. I mean http://juicystudio.com/article/accessible_data_tables_static_headers.php
  37. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:14
    yeah just found that via his search
  38. hm, he presentations the table then adds back in grid roles... I should be able to use normal table navigation with that?
  39. So far the grids I've been using were calendars and those used exclusively arrow keys
  40. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:18
    [karlgroves] @tink When did JAWS add support for aria-sort?
  41. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:18
    ah haha looks like I'd added to Gez' page a comment with the lost Paul O'Brien scrollable table :P
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:18
    [tink] Hmm. A little while ago. Perhaps 15.
  43. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:18
    looks like to be able to scroll it we'd need to make it focusable like scrollable divs in Firefox
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 13:19
    [karlgroves] Awesome
  45. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 13:20
    On the other hand... mine is both scrollable and there's a link in each and every tr. Maybe merely tabbing through those links would scroll the table body in most browsers.
  46. I wouldnt want some poor sucker on a touch screen to deal with it though
  47. Srinivas Yedhuri
    @sri429
    Feb 07 15:41
    @StommePoes do you let tab go through all these links or only arrow keys and tab takes to the next control?
  48. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 07 19:54
    In this current table I'm dealing with, I'm forcing them to change the ng-click on the tr to a link in the unique cell. So as a keyboarder, I would tab from link to link like I would any other links, while mouse users could still click anywhere on the tr to get that link to go. @sri429
  49. If we don't add a bunch of grid crap it's just a normal table that I should be able to use normal table navigation with an SR if I'm exploring the table. I fear the ng-click crap will make everything constantly reannounce itself as "clickable" in SRs that detect click listeners, but... shrug
  50. In our calendars, that's a whole interactive grid with griddy mcGrid roles and those all are, the calendar and it's controls (next, prev) are tabbable but once you've tabbed to the days proper, you switch to arrows and wander around the grid at your leisure... and next tab should take you out.
  51. I'm getting hints that this table is a lazy-load type of thing, or an infinite table thing... and each tr contains a link. I'm not liking that at all, it becomes a trap if you don't have an SR.
  52. And @sri429 if every or most of the cells had links in them then I'd consider switching to the griddy keyboard recommendations, but in this case it appears to be a fairly tabley table which happens to have 1 cell per row with a link.
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 07 20:51
    [jacquidow] Where would be the best place to ask a question about an accessibility issue I have with a web form using bootstrap?