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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 16th of February 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 01:12
    [karlgroves] @herin try CKE
  2. [herin] @karlgroves : Thank you!
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 01:19
    [karlgroves] It has been a while since I used it but I recall it being pretty good. One of the challenges you’ll always have with RTEs is that they always seem to constitute a keyboard trap. I don’t recall how/ if CKE manages that
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 01:42
    [herin] @karlgroves : No Keyboard trap in CKE. It tabs to the next focusable element. That's a good thing. Will need to check the shortcut keys now. Looks pretty good so far.
  5. [karlgroves] Nice!
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 12:58
    [car] @herin @karlgroves We followed some advice from the APG because our users need to insert a tab into the code when they type tab in our CodeEdit widget (also, because typing tab with multiple lines selected indents, and shift+tab outdents):
    https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#richtext
    See the last paragraph in the Keyboard Interaction section for Rich Text:
    "Optionally, if the developer wishes to provide the ability to insert a tab into the document, it is recommended one of the following methods be used.
    • Provide indent and outdent buttons in the menu. Keyboard shortcuts to the buttons should be Control + M for indent and Control + Shift + M for outdent.
    • Provide a button in the menu to toggle the use of Tab between the two modes. If this button is used, then Control + M is recommended as a keyboard shortcut to toggle the button."
      We chose the 2nd method. The Control+M shortcut to switch the modes is listed in our keyboard shortcuts menu. Consumers of our CodeEdit widget may decide to also provide a "Tab Mode" toolbar button in their UI.
  7. [car] Hey! Where did the Rich Text pattern go? I assume it's coming back... @michiel ?
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 13:22
    [car] I found a copy of the ARIA 1.0 APG (containing Rich Text, and the Control+M guidance) here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/20091214/ (maybe that's not the best link, though).
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 13:33
    [car] Interesting... found this CKE issue that sounds like they are considering adding the ctrl+M behavior as well. ckeditor/editor-recommendations#19
    Or maybe they already added it? Not sure. @herin, since you are checking out CKEditor, can you please let me know if they have announced/implemented any new behavior for "tab mode/ctrl+M"?
  10. [car] (If so, then that makes at least 2 of us, which makes it "standard" <grin>).
  11. [car] Would be nice if they do go that route, because it makes the feature more discoverable for both our users and their users. :)
  12. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 14:51
    I have never seen ctrl+M before. Got an example?
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 15:25
    [michiel] car: yeah, we’re focussing on a smaller sample of examples first.
  14. [michiel] Rich Text, among others, needs major reworks.
  15. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 15:30
    [michiel] car: the latest version of the text editor is here: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/aria-practices-DeletedSectionsArchive.html#richtext
  16. [michiel] Note that it’s the same version as from 1.0, just, y’know, the latest version of that.
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 15:51

    [artistic_abode] Question about Audio Described videos for Section 508. We have some interview videos, an off screen interviewer poses a question and interviewee sitting on screen against a plain background responds. For something as simple as this, would it need additional audio description? Would it be descriptive enough to include an introductory paragraph in html text that says something like "We sat down with \___ for an interview. Play the video to hear what he/she said." ? CC will be provided as well.

    Also some of the videos are coming from outside sources and may not be able to be altered to included Audio Description or embedded CC. How would you handle this challenge?

  18. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 17:22
    [jiatyan] Question for those on the other side of the Atlantic, what are your accessibility laws? Has any country referenced EN 301 549 or WCAG in formal regulations (vs voluntary)?
  19. [michiel] The Netherlands used an adaptation of WCAG 2.0 for years. They’re switching to EN 301 549 (such a sexy name) by end of 2018.
  20. [michiel] They only apply to public sector as far as I know.
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 17:29
    [jiatyan] So is EN 301 549 the equivalent of WCAG as a standard?
  22. [michiel] EN 301 549 has WCAG 2.0 in it/
  23. [jiatyan] yes, but you are not legally required to follow EN 301 549 nor WCAG, are you?
  24. [jiatyan] they are just references?
  25. [michiel] I’ve not read up on it too much, so don’t quote me on this, but all public sector (government etc) websites will have to adhere to En 301 549 and thus WCAG 2.0
  26. [michiel] In the Netherlands public sector websites already have to conform to WCAG 2.0
  27. [jiatyan] ah, ok. Do you have a name for that law about public sector compliance? Probably in Dutch, I know. :)
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 17:34
    [jiatyan] I'm making a list of regulatory requirements, as in stuff which can hold up in court.
  29. [michiel] Jules Ernst has made an entire list: https://www.200ok.nl/digitale-toegankelijkheid-in-nederland/
  30. [jiatyan] I'm wondering if EN 301 549 should even be on the list in the same area as Section 508.
  31. [michiel] Hopefully you can use that with a translation service :)
  32. [jiatyan] Thanks. I see "WCAG" in there :)
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 20:35
    [garcialo] @artistic_abode If they’re just sitting around talking, you wouldn’t need an audio description.
  34. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 20:35
    webaim.org is down
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 20:35
    [garcialo] @artistic_abode If one of them gets up and does something - like throws a chair or storms out of the interview and there isn’t enough information presented via what’s spoken to communicate those actions…then you might need one. :p
  36. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 20:36
    The DNS for webaim.org is messed up
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 20:36
    [garcialo] pfft, DNS is for posers
  38. [garcialo] This is why everyone should just memorize IP addresses
  39. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 16 20:43
    Le sigh.
  40. I have disclosure buttons but someone just wants to details-summary all of them
  41. I wonder if it's even worth it to fight them.
  42. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 20:44
    @garcialo I went to the IP and it said "Hey there! You're probably looking for WebAIM.org or you're up to no good."
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 20:44
    [garcialo] lol
  44. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 20:44
    http://67.207.157.232/
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 20:44
    [garcialo] I love WebAIM :p
  46. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 16 20:45
    I guess someone here should contact whoever Jared Smith is?
  47. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 16 20:57
    Did the issues of focusables inside details/summaries every get fixed or is that still languishing? Everything I can find about it is pretty old stuff
  48. and some grunts from steve faulkner
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 21:20
    [car] Thanks, @michiel! That's what I thought, but I was surprised to find APG 1.1 in the wai-aria-practices "TR place". I was expecting APG 1.0 to still be there because ARIA 1.0 is still in the wai-aria "TR place": https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
  50. [car] Just caught me a bit off-guard is all, because the #richtext link worked the last time I tried it (which I see now was actually back in October <g>). So no worries! You guys are doing an awesome job of fixing up the APG words! Worth waiting for. :)
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 21:29
    [marcysutton] Ohh nooo that is a bummer about WebAIM
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 21:48
    [car] http://webaim.org/ seems ok now.
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 21:59
    [marcysutton] Huh, I still get a DNS cannot be reached page. Must take some time to propagate
  54. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 22:09
    [cordelia] I also get DNS still
  55. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 22:16
    [marcysutton] I did tweet at Jared Smith so he is aware of it.
  56. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 22:23
    [michiel] car: thank you :sparkles:
  57. [michiel] We had to fight for APG 1.1 to take 1.0’s place.
  58. [michiel] But since 1.0 was never a REC or an official note it was possible to replace it :)
  59. [michiel] But yeah, W3C and links… for someone that invented the darn thing… You know what I mean :P
  60. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 16 23:56
    [car] Huh, webaim is bad for me now, too. Maybe the problem finally reached Canada. ;)

  61. [caesar] Does anyone know why VoiceOver (in Safari on Sierra), reads form elements out of order... possibly when inside a tab?

    The code is <label><input><label><input>

    But VO is reading <label><label><input><input>

  62. [caesar] Sorry, inside a tabpanel, not a tab.