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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 3rd of May 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 03:36
    @robdodson the webaim one is old 508. I don't see anything new 508 in those ibm guidelines either.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 04:18
    [robdodson] @jnurthen ah thank you! I was also looking at the 508gov site but haven't sat down to compare what it says with the checklists. I'll be sure to do that!
  3. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 04:24
    @robdodson are you asking for web content or software? For web content basically just WCAG + Authoring tool requirements (if your content could be an authoring tool) + a few other things.
  4. if software rather than web then more complex
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 04:25
    [robdodson] Web content
  6. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 04:25
    (also that is very simplified)
  7. so that is chapter 5 which says - if you meet wcag you don't need to meet 502 and 503 so that leaves 504 which is the authoring tool requirements.... you may have quite a few of those at google
  8. I'm writing our VPAT system at the moment where we track status of products so i'm deep in this myself at the moment
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 04:31
    [robdodson] Oh it's not for Google. An external dev was asking generally how to.handle accessibility on their project and I noted that they were doing federal work so 508 would apply. But I don't have much experience with 508. I've only ever spent time with WCAG. Though I know the refresh is heavily based on WCAG
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 05:03

    [karlgroves] > I noted that they were doing federal work so 508 would apply.

    Due to 508-purgatory, it might help to know what agency the work is for. For the most part, agencies have moved toward WCAG already - the GSA and Access Board themselves have been encouraging this for a while now anyway. Some may hold onto old 508, though that’s super unlikely. Others might be using a hybrid approach, especially for non-web content.

  11. [karlgroves] Ultimately, each individual agency is free to determine their own approach to complying with the Rehabilitation Act, which is why it helps to know what agency it is and what they use.
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 05:23
    [herin] Hi, Any one using NVDA can you please help with me checking the Keyboard interaction of the Grids here?
    https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/examples/grid/dataGrids.html
  13. [herin] I am not getting the Grid navigation correct. Just wondering if it's my NVDA or something else
  14. [herin] Thanks
  15. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 05:41
    [herin] From Grid Authoring practices, I understand that "In a grid that presents tabular data, every cell contains a focusable element or is itself focusable, regardless of whether the cell content is editable or interactive. There is one exception: if column or row header cells do not provide functions, such as sort or filter, they do not need to be focusable. One reason this is important is that screen readers need to be in their application reading mode, rather than their document reading mode, while the user is interacting with the grid. While in application reading mode, a screen reader user can only discover focusable elements and content that labels focusable elements. So, a screen reader user may unknowningly overlook elements contained in a grid that are either not focusable or not used to label a column or row"
  16. [herin] All good now!
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 08:39
    [michiel] car: hmm, VoiceOver made a complete mess of it. Now, I'm not sure how VoiceOver usually handles PDFs but am pretty sure I've seen better than that.
  18. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 11:12
    [michiel] For those that have questions about the TPG acquisition by VFO: https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2017/05/business-as-usual/
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 13:15
    [mikey] Best place to post slides? Is Slideshare still what the cool kids use?
  20. [tink] Slideshare has atrocious accessibility :(
  21. [mikey] I figured.
  22. [mikey] Any better alternatives?
  23. [tink] I post mine to a Github repo these days.
  24. [tink] I haven't found a good comercial platform, no.
  25. [mikey] (sob emoji)
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 13:39
    [ndxcc] Someone just sent me this, thought it looked quite interesting - never used a tool like it before. http://colororacle.org/
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 14:16
    [car] @tink Do you find that github is generally accessible?
  28. [tink] @car yes for the most part.
  29. [car] Interesting. Thanks, @tink!
  30. [tink] There are a few things you need to figure out workarounds for, but otherwise it's mostly ok.
  31. [tink] I use the Greasemonkey scripts from NVAccess, which make things more usable (turn comment names into headings for easier navigation for example).
  32. [tink] There are many things Github could improve of course.
  33. [tink] Is there anything you're having trouble with?
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 14:47
    [car] Cool! Thanks again.
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 15:01
    [drtomlins] @ndxcc you can also try NoCoffee extension for Chrome, pretty good tool
  36. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 15:16
    @tink thanks for the reference to the NVAccess greasemonkey scripts. I just forwarded to the AG list as I know there are people there who have been struggling with the lack of headers in GitHub issues.
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 15:22
    [sri429] does section 508 explicitly say that third party components used in he website also has to be compliant? Need a reference article to show it to a PM and convince him.
  38. [conley] I believe they are exempt
  39. [conley] but don't quote me just yet ;)
  40. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 15:25
    i don't believe anything is exempt from 508
  41. depending on how it is licensed it may be someone else's responsibility to show that different things meet 508
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 15:26
    [conley] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Understanding_PartialConformance-_Third_Party_Content
  43. [conley] "partial conformance"
  44. [conley] Yeah "Exempt" is the wrong word
  45. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 15:28
    508 != WCAG
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 15:29
    [conley] off my game today
  47. [conley] https://media.giphy.com/media/4pMX5rJ4PYAEM/giphy.gif
  48. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 15:30
    also if you are choosing the components that is not outside your control so partial conformance would not apply (IMO - IANAL)
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 15:54
    [spell] Howdy, Awesome A11y Peeps! A question/opinion about something I hear far too frequently and that is when I flag contrast issues with designs. The response is often, "Well, those are the brand guidelines, so we can't do anything about that". Typically, I ask that such findings be shared with client regardless, because it may help with future branding endeavors, but how do you all approach this?
  50. [conley] Client should definitely be aware if their brand guidelines are non-compliant
  51. [conley] A solution I proposed for one client was offering a high-contrast mode that modifies the theme to bring the colors into compliance
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 16:00
    [conley] Similar to how Choice Hotels does it - https://www.choicehotels.com/
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 16:21
    [sri429] Hey All,
    i have a structure similar to this codepen https://codepen.io/anon/pen/MmvbBY
  54. [sri429] mouse interaction is when you double click the items on the right side they get added to the left hand side. And via keyboard (without screen reader on) up and down arrow keys to navigate between the list items and enter to add it to the right
  55. [sri429] what should be the keyboard interaction with screen reader on
  56. [sri429] as of now we are using list and listitem for ul and li (weird without this jaws is not passing the keypress to browser (arrow keys) ) and even though there is a keypress listener on button jaws is not allowing it to pass it to browser
  57. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 16:26
    [sri429] adding a click listener allows it but cant do that as it breaks the mouse interaction of adding it only on double click and not single click
  58. [sri429] any ideas?
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 17:06
    [spell] Thanks, @conley!
  60. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 03 17:43
    @sri429 it is a cheesy hack but you could add an off-screen link which moves the item
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 19:02
    [ghanek] Just confirmed with JonW @ WebAIM that their current 508 page has NOT been updated yet for the refresh. Since so many of the changes are referencing WCAG 2.0, and that WebAIM page is current, their timeline for updating to reflect the refresh is not as urgent (yet).
    @robdodson I don’t know about the webaim page, but the IBM checklist is a mix of WCAG and 508, and I know they were following the 508 Refresh closely. You’ll note that most of the 508 points are covered by WCAG, and any points not covered are listed near the end:
    http://www-03.ibm.com/able/guidelines/ci162/accessibility_checklist_web.html
  62. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 19:07
    [robdodson] thanks @ghanek
  63. [robdodson] btw, has anyone experienced a bug with VoiceOver when you start it it just flickers and then eventually crashes?
  64. [robdodson] this just recently started happening on my machine. I have to restart the computer to make it work
  65. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 20:00
    [michiel] robdodson: haven't seen that on the later stable. Are you running a beta?
  66. [robdodson] Nope. Maybe it's a conflict with some other software I'm running
  67. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 20:25
    [emplums] wooooo got automated a11y integration tests set up with axe-core + jest +enzyme today! @marcysutton these test are going to do wonders for our team!
  68. [emplums] :sparkles:
  69. [emplums] and this was super helpful to get me there! https://gist.github.com/marcysutton/835c2fd90fadb631414b39523d5bda61
  70. [marcysutton] yay!
  71. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 20:31
    [emplums] :dancers:
  72. [garcialo] @spell I set up meetings with design/brand leadership and work with them to get their buy-in, explain why it’s important, and explain how it’s unproductive for them to allow poor contrast combinations because when it gets to us, we will have to call instances of poor contrast and it becomes difficult for teams if design is telling them one thing and accessibility another…etc.
  73. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 20:38
    [dylanb] @emplums are you using JSDOM?
  74. [emplums] @dylanb I’m using ReactDOM & Enzyme :)
  75. [emplums] Empty alt tag bug on Chrome has been fixed! =D https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=710537&can=2&start=0&num=100&q=VoiceOver%20images&colspec=ID%20Pri%20M%20Stars%20ReleaseBlock%20Component%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20OS%20Modified&groupby=&sort=
  76. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 03 20:48
    [marcysutton] so that would be a yes for JSDOM.