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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 23rd of May 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 02:07
    [tessenate] Do icon fonts adhere to the same WCAG 2.0 rules on contrast ratio and font size? (i.e. it can be 3:1 if it’s an 18pt font or above)
  2. [tessenate] Or should they all be unequivocally 4.5:1?
  3. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 23 02:12
    I treat icon fonts as images so would say there are no contrast requirements. However aiming for at least 3:1 would be a good idea.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 03:00
    [marcysutton] If they are used in icon buttons though, they have to be visible for people to use them! More important than decorative images.
  5. [marcysutton] I would actually argue they could be considered text. We are able to test icon font text glyphs for color contrast in aXe, but not background or foreground images.
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 03:23
    [kimberlymunoz] I second that. I’ve noticed that when I watched older family use apps with faint contrast on the icons, they completely skip over them even if I’m giving directly directions to click on the “star icon”. If it’s something people interact with like a button/link and not decorative, they should meet the contrast minimum.
  7. [tessenate] Should the contrast be 3:1 if the icons are large enough or should it just be 4.5:1 throughout?
  8. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    May 23 03:35
    They should be as good as you can make them. I was answering what they have to be per wcag.
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 11:55
    [skymaiden] Hello :) Possibly dumb question: is there a way to inspect the accessibility tree in a browser on Mac OS? I haven't found much aside from https://github.com/ThePacielloGroup/aviewer (seems to be for Windows)
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 12:16
    [adamliptrot] Chrome inspector has an accessibility tool behind a flag:
    https://gist.github.com/marcysutton/0a42f815878c159517a55e6652e3b23a
  11. [skymaiden] ah thanks for the link @adamliptrot!
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 13:17
    [car] @skymaiden There's also chrome://accessibility/ to see a textual dump of the accessibility tree. A bit hard core, but you can always use cmd F (or ctrl+F on Win) to find the element you want to look at. ;)
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 14:59
    [michiel] skymaiden: if you have Xcode installed you will have access to the Accessibility Inspector
  14. [michiel] You can start it via Spotlight :)
  15. [michiel] With it you can inspect accessibility info for things all over macOS, iOS, tvOS, and watchOS.
  16. [skymaiden] ah, do you need the full xcode? (I have the command line tools installed, not finding anything in there)
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 15:06
    [michiel] You need it to install it as far as I know. You can safely remove Xcode after that.
  18. [michiel] You can make a copy of the Accessibility Inspector by going to Applications → Xcode.app → Show package contents → Contents → Applications
  19. [michiel] Copy Accessibility Inspector and paste it somewhere else (your applications folder for example)
  20. [skymaiden] ok thanks for the info! :)
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:09
    [davidb] @skymaiden I haven't used it in ages but maybe the Accessibility Verifier would help as well https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXTestingApps.html
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:18

    [shavaughn] Do you guys feel that it's worth the effort to test mobile versions of a website with the Android and iOS screen readers?

    I'm trying to do that for a project right now and it feels like I'm spending more time fighting with the screen reader than anything else. Especially on Android. (I have experience with desktop readers)

    A good portion of my problem is probably from lack of experience using the mobile readers with web browsers. So I guess what I'm also asking is if any of you know of any useful tips or articles for getting up to speed with screen readers on the mobile web.

  23. [tyronem] Absolutely. We have found things that only appear in voiceover on one device, or a control is read when it should be off-screen. It’s frustrating, but we also have a higher confidence that what we’re sending out to the client is well-tested.
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:39
    [violet] Open question: when you are doing client work, where do the accessibility specs/standards you’re using come from? Does the client require a certain level of accessibility? Does your company always deliver to a certain accessibility spec? Do accessibility goals change from project to project? etc.
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:47
    [megan] @violet our standard is AA WCAG accessibility
  26. [megan] it’s not something clients usually know about, so we recommend it
  27. [megan] but if they do know, then that’s also the level that they ask for generally
  28. [violet] @megan nice!!
  29. [tyronem] @violet my workplace is in the same category as @megan
  30. [megan] i run a teeny tiny agency with my partner and we’re both pretty passionate about accessibility, which means that there isn’t usually any resistance
  31. [violet] @tyronem so great! I’m trying to up the accessibility of what we make and trying to figure out where in the process we can improve. we don’t have a uniform accessibility standard across projects/clients
  32. [megan] but it was the same when i was at bigger agencies too
  33. [megan] @violet are you at an agency?
  34. [megan] and who is involved in those decisions with clients?
  35. [violet] yep, I’m at an agency, and we’re getting better but a lot of this improvement is gonna have to be organizational, so that’s how I’m trying to go about it. I’m a dev and a bunch of us are passionate about accessibility but it’s hard to implement when there’s no time budgeted for it, etc
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:52
    [violet] we have a couple of clients who require WCAG AA for every project with them, so that’s super, but most other clients don’t seem to have strict standards
  37. [violet] so inspiring hear you two talk about the accessibility work you do and I wanted to see if I could model actions off of what y’all have done
  38. [megan] how is the accessibility knowledge/interest within your PM team?
  39. [megan] i find that if your biz dev team know about it then they can sell it as a feature, and if your PM team know about it then they can make sure it’s in SoWs/docs, and worked into processes
  40. [megan] corp clients want AA to protect themselves, smaller clients like AA because they’re doing a good thing
  41. [megan] in my experience
  42. [tyronem] The account managers/relationship managers have to know a little about it. We’re slowly getting more devs and PMs to understand the importance of a11y
  43. [megan] +1 on that @tyronem
  44. [violet] so good to hear! that’s what we’re trying to get to happen — accessibility as a necessary part of the deliverable. getting acct managers, etc to sell it :)
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    May 23 20:58
    [violet] again, push is coming from the devs over here but very encouraging to hear that we seem to be pushing towards the correct goal
  46. [violet] thank you!
  47. [megan] try and find allys in your PM/AM team and bring them along on the journey with you
  48. [megan] a few strong voices are usually enough to start stuff
  49. [megan] maybe do a lunchtime brownbag session, or share stuff on your company slack that’s a bit more accessible
  50. [megan] no pun intended
  51. [violet] thanks so much!! <3
  52. [colinoakley] if you are doing user research with people who have access needs that is a very powerful thing to give context
  53. [violet] super good call @colinoakley