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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 15th of June 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 02:30
    [michiel] Does anyone have any good accessibility related trivia questions?
  2. [michiel] For example: “What is the only ARIA attribute to use British spelling?” (answer: aria-labelledby)
  3. [michiel] Doesn’t necessarily have to be anything to do with code.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 02:39
    [nschonni] Does A + AA = AAA?
  5. [michiel] Ha, I think that works better as a joke :P
  6. [michiel] “In WCAG, A + AA ≠ AAA”
  7. [michiel] https://twitter.com/MichielBijl/status/875181686966943749
  8. [nschonni] what's the audience for the trivia?
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 02:54
    [michiel] Attendees of role=drinks
  10. [michiel] I’m giving away one of Heydon’s Inclusive Design Patterns books.
  11. [nschonni] "Name 3 AT devices that don't invovle a computer"
  12. [michiel] Oeh I like that.
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 03:01
    [michiel] Any more suggestions besides : wheelchair, hearing aid, cane, assistive listening loop, magnifying glass
  14. [nschonni] braille, glasses, guide dog
  15. [michiel] Bit of a stretch to call a guide dog a device :P
  16. [nschonni] paving patterns (or whatever the proper term for that is)
  17. [nschonni] lol, true
  18. [nschonni] i was thinking AT, forgot i said device
  19. [michiel] If I just ask “What are 3 assistive technologies that don’t involve a computer” I should be fine.
  20. [caesar] service animal :)
  21. [nschonni] ramp, elevator
  22. [michiel] These are great, thanks!
  23. [nschonni] kneeling bus
  24. [michiel] No I just have to hope nobody that’ll attend this Saturday read this chatroom at this hour :P
  25. [nschonni] lol
  26. [michiel] now*
  27. [michiel] Thanks Nick!
  28. [nschonni] np
  29. [nschonni] meaner trivia would be someting like "How long did it take between the ARIA draft and recommendation"
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 03:07
    [michiel] Yeah, I tried to avoid coming up with statistical questions like that.
  31. [caesar] Questions about dates are always awful :)
  32. [caesar] Which year was WCAG 1.0 ratified, etc.
  33. [michiel] What Caesar said :P
  34. [michiel] I prefer questions that make people think a bit.
  35. [caesar] Which country held the Olympics in the year that WCAG 2.0 was finalised?
  36. [michiel] :D
  37. [caesar] (Assuming that one was, haha...)
  38. [michiel] What was the distance to Mars on the day Apple officially denied implementing longdesc?
  39. [michiel] declined*
  40. [michiel] Damnit.
  41. [michiel] Right, thanks both, time to get ready for my flight.
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 03:12
    [caesar] Safe travels!
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 04:44
    [michiel] Thanks Caesar!
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 06:56
    [michiel] Members of the organisation team are excluded
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 09:43
    [skymaiden] Hello :) Has anyone else had problems with step="any" on a range input slider stopping Voiceover iOS from being able to adjust the slider?
  46. [skymaiden] I've taken it off my slider to make it work as expected, but I spent a couple of days bug hunting to find what was breaking it in the first place...
  47. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 13:49
    [allenski] @all: when/where is the next toronto meet-up?
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 15:46

    [geekf] You are doing it wrong. A00 + AA = AAA.
    Things in WCAG don’t quite add up: A + AA ≠ AAA.

    h/t @nschonni

  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 15:52
    [bethra] Does anyone know any reason why Bootstrap can not be accessible? New job = new developers = new excuses :(
  50. [tyronem] It’s somewhat accessible - it can be more accessible with a little work where it’s needed.
  51. [bethra] They're trying to use it "out of the box" and are trying to use div's instead of tables for tabular data because they think it's more responsive. Oh, and they're totally using heading levels for visual font styling and say it can't be changed, even though I know it can.
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 15:58
    [cmegown] yeah...they're just plain wrong
  53. [geekf] As far as I remember you can do all of those things with Bootstrap
  54. [cmegown] haha if they can change a table-based design into divs there's no reason they couldn't change heading elements
  55. [clairebones] yeah, bootstrap can be accessible if you make the effort. But those guys are just using bootstrap to save them work rather than putting effort in I think :p
  56. [clairebones] also I spent a full 3 minutes of a 20min accessibility talk last weekend yelling at people who use header elements for styling, if I was working with them I'd throw a book at their heads (joy/allthethings emoji)
  57. [geekf] From Bootstrap CSS website - "All HTML headings, <h1> through <h6>, are available. .h1 through .h6 classes are also available, for when you want to match the font styling of a heading but still want your text to be displayed inline."
  58. [tyronem] But this thing exists: https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QwemaO (http://johnpolacek.github.io/stacktable.js/) - I don’t like the columns spanning, but it works.
  59. [geekf] At this point I think everyone should know that HTML is not for styling. Create a logical structure in HTML and then see how can you make it look what you want (or readjust requirements).
  60. [tyronem] right. It requires a little forethought and using the proper semantic HTML.
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 16:04
    [cmegown] HTML-First Development™
  62. [geekf] I should have claimed trademark for that one but it appears I am late in the game.
  63. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 16:12
    [cehfisher] @cmegown wait…isn’t that just going back to web development in the 90s? tables for all the things
  64. [cmegown] you just gave me some horrific flashbacks to my first internship
  65. [cehfisher] :see_no_evil:
  66. [geekf] 1990s - Tables for everything
    2017 - Tables for everything with role=presentation
  67. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 15 16:24
    Soon it'll be Grid everything
  68. To be fair, it is difficult to make a table responsive and accessible. I'd argue that codepen by @tyronem is not accessible when it gets to a mobile layout (i.e. headers aren't read out properly).
  69. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 16:33
    [philgruneich] What book? (thinking face emoji)
    also I spent a full 3 minutes of a 20min accessibility talk last weekend yelling at people who use header elements for styling, if I was working with them I'd throw a book at their heads (joy/allthethings emoji)
  70. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 16:43
    [cehfisher] truth @powrsurg
  71. [cehfisher] i attempted to do a responsive and accessible table in example #4 here - http://a11y-style-guide.com/style-guide/section-structure.html#kssref-structure-tables
    i’d love people to test it out and see what can be improved…not sure it’s 100% there
  72. [cehfisher] side-note: it is better to close the sidebar menu to see the responsiveness part
  73. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 17:11
    [conley] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/winn-dixie-decision-sets-precedent/
  74. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 17:46
    [emmabee] This event already happened, but you can check out the videos and decks for each session! http://www.inclusivedesign24.org/
  75. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 18:36
    [stevenlambert] This just showed up on my radar https://github.com/dexteryy/spellbook-of-modern-webdev#open-web-platform. theres only 2 links for acessibility, it might be nice to add more (mand mke it its own section rather than combined with SEO)
  76. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 18:55
    [starla175] @conley That's HUGE!
  77. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 19:01
    [cmegown] @conley i saw this on twitter a couple of days ago: https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/874798596037726208
  78. [cmegown] it's really disheartening to read some of the comments in that thread
  79. [cehfisher] i read that article yesterday, but didn’t see those comments @cmegown…is that real?!
  80. [cmegown] :upside_down_face:
  81. [cehfisher] sorry i guess i shouldn’t be surprised about anything on Twitter…
  82. [cmegown] i think this might be the best one: https://twitter.com/JeryM8/status/874799863397060608
  83. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 19:06
    [cmegown] you're right jery. they cannot see therefore they do not need sustenance.
  84. [cmegown] after all 99% of the reason we eat food is so that our eyes are all powered up.
  85. [cmegown] /s
  86. [conley] yeah, avoid the comments section at all costs
  87. [tyronem] the WSJ is forcing me to sign in to see the rest of the article, so no comments for me. Maybe I don’t want to see it. But empathy for others is lacking, and it is sad to see.
  88. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 19:14
    [conley] even the twitter responses, typical...
  89. [cehfisher] makes me appreciate this group even more :)
  90. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 19:25
    [higley] My favorite is https://twitter.com/_mauricip/status/874987587403788289
  91. [higley] just check that option! It makes everything work.
  92. [cmegown] http://i.imgur.com/YsbKHg1.gif
  93. [geekf] @conley I should have heed your advice but my curiosity got the better of me. The ignorance, the darkness!!!
  94. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 19:33
    [marcysutton] WSJ comments are a hateful bigoted garbage fire. Avoid at all costs
  95. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 20:15
    [spell] Quick question regarding focus management. Let's say I have three buttons as part of a filter type interface. If I tab to a button and click on it and the button disappears, then what should happen at this point? Should focus be applied to the next available button?
  96. [tyronem] does it have to disappear? Can it be disabled instead?
  97. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 21:39
    [geekf] @spell Shouldn't the button carry out an action. If yes then I think the focus should go to the logical next step for that button.
  98. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 21:47
    [spell] @tyronem @geekf The button does carry out an action. It is a button to remove applied search filters. When you select certain filters, a button for that selection is added to top of UI and search results are updated to reflect that selection. When you click on the button, those filters are removed and button vanishes. So, I guess most logic place is to add to next available remove search filter button.
  99. [spell] if user clicks button in the middle, which button should focus be applied to? The right or the left? :)
  100. [spell] BTW, it looks like this: https://www.screencast.com/t/Ef3FZl1afmL
  101. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Jun 15 21:55
    @stevefaulkner of course you can.
  102. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 21:59
    [tyronem] @spell Ah, the screenshot provides good context. I’d suggest putting focus to the left (you should always have a button to the left, I presume)
  103. [spell] @tyronem Yes, you are right...or left. Ha! Ha! Thank you, sir!
  104. [spell] I guess only exception would be for first button then, right? Focus would be applied to immediate right.
  105. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 22:04
    [spell] I mean, if you click on 1st, then apply focus to immediate right, right? Heh
  106. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 22:14
    [geekf] @spell What are you going to do when there's only one filter and the user wants to remove it?
  107. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 15 22:21
    [spell] @geekf That's a real good question! IDK! I'm slowly bringing this page up to a11y snuff, so I welcome any suggestions on most appropriate place to apply focus after last button has been selected. You can select filters on left to get buttons to appear. https://www.tmp.com/search-jobs
  108. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Jun 15 23:02
    Thanks @jnurthen :clap: