Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 19th of July 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 00:00
    [caesar] Hehe... guidelines aside I think it's a reasonable problem. Using inverse colours means I can't tell which state combination corresponds with what
  2. [garcialo] yeah; agreed
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 07:14
    [herin] The toggle colour + textual information should be combined in this case. On / off state change can combine with the on / off text change
    Hi guys. Can someone please point me in the direction of a best practice example of a non-binary set of toggle buttons (e.g. list vs grid view). The ones I'm looking at currently fail 1.4.1 Use of Color because they're just colour inverse versions of each other - it's impossible to tell which state corresponds to which option.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 09:29
    [carolinelindstrom] Hi, I took the liberty to create a new channel that I felt I was missing here. #news a place to share news and updates around a11y. Things like new assistive technology being released or improved, new initiatives, legal discussions, updates from companies that are making an effort etc :information_desk_person:
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 14:03
    [ecf2h] Hi all! I'm doing some work on accessibility for a company that hosts webinars, and their site incorporates instructional videos. The videos and webinars are all on YouTube and have automated captions enabled. My boss has assured me that the automated captions are (mostly) accurate, but as someone who's HOH, I have a pretty solid distrust of YouTube craptions. What makes it worse is that I can't tell whether the captions are actually accurate for all the videos, or if they're just assuming that they are! Any thoughts on this? I know from my school accommodations that automated captions can sometimes be accurate enough for ADA requirements, but from personal experience, I know it's a fine line between "close enough" and "unclear". Should I push for actual captions, or maybe provide a note in the video descriptions saying that the automated captions are accurate?
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 16:27

    [dylanb] I have a YouTube video that was auto captioned - the talk was on accessibility and here is an excerpt of th captions…

    “…critters have this widget that originally down you agree have different buttons…”

    brilliant IMHO

  7. [scottohara] interested to learn more about these critter widgets than i can down
  8. [scottohara] and i do agree, they should have different buttons
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 16:37
    [cehfisher] i was just talking about that yesterday with a co-worker. apparently auto captions can also accidentally include some non-client friendly four-letter words…good to check your captions, yo
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 17:06
    [ghanek] aria-critter="widget" should not be made wet, or fed after midnight. :japanese_ogre:
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 17:18
    [shawn.henning] http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/12697
  12. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 19 17:25
    I have a screenshot of auto-craptions of Karl Grove's talk where they claim he's saying he'd lick pussy
  13. I have no idea anymore what he was actually saying
  14. auto-craptions are good-enough in very few cases, and even then, they don't include sounds, punctuation, or state who's saying what
  15. I have a question for anyone working with aria grids/calendars
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 17:26
    [tyronem] I like the term auto-craption. Seems appropriate.
  17. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 19 17:27
    the specs state that, because grids are hijacking screen readers and other AT with the arrow navigation thing, that all cells should be focusable (so that a screen reader user for example can explore the cells and the context, even if those cells aren't actually selectable)
  18. So that's fine, except all the datepicker calenders I've seen use aria-selected to represent the currently-focussed date
  19. in our calendar, a "selected" date is one you hit Enter on and that date fills the input (in a datepicker) or takes the user to information about that date.
  20. Some dates are disabled from selection.
  21. Dates in the past for example, or weekends in a scheduler.
  22. these cells need to be focusable, but I can't have aria-selected="true" on them as the user focusses on them while at the same time the cells have aria-disabled="true" because they are "disabled" dates.
  23. Is aria-selected="true" instead something I should stick to the clicked-enter-to-select dates in this case?
  24. The developer and I are still discussing if we're going to use aria-activedescendent, but for that one as well... when we focus on a descendent, can it be active and disabled at the same time?
  25. According to the spec, the point of allowing focus is simply to make up for us breaking Natural Law by hijacking the keyboard, when normally a screen reader user can inspect disabled controls if they want, and here they can't.
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 17:40
    [garcialo] @ecf2h If you want to present your boss with an example of poor auto captions, you could ask him to google “Colbert hot Harriet Tubman”
  27. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 19 17:41
    There was also the one from michael Lockrey where the autocraptions called the Indonesian prime minister some horrible names... but it did eventually get fixed
  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 17:42
    [garcialo] @ecf2h correction: “ask them”; not “him.” I guess I was incorrectly assuming you had said “he,” but you hadn’t.
  29. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Jul 19 17:44
    https://medium.com/@mlockrey/youtubes-automatic-craptioning-6e273fdc8bdd
  30. Chris O'Brien
    @a11ycob
    Jul 19 18:10
    these caption fails are great: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA220BA20D4D3DE46 - scripts are created, uploaded to YT and then they run through the same scripts after YT auto captions them.
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 20:58
    [shawn.henning] Track Changes: When Borders Collapse: Inside the World of Web Standards with Eric Meyer
    https://overcast.fm/+GH-vZjxkI
  32. [shawn.henning] They get into accessibility rather quickly. ^^

  33. [stevenlambert] does anyone have any examples of a good accessible non-modal (modeless dialog)? doing a google search only really finds modals, and i have to use the wayback machine to see the aria practices suggestions (since the current aria practices is still under development for non-modals).

    mainly what i’m trying to find out is how to let the user switch between the dialog and the application, and how to inform the user that they can do so

  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 21:04
    [shawn.henning] "The web is inherently accessible; you have to work to make it inaccessible, unfortunately we have spent the past 25 years..." I think that is close to the quote.
  35. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 21:45
    [garcialo] @stevenlambert If you’re using a dialog, that kind of implies that it’s modal…since it’s likely going to be like a sub-window of its parent. If you’re not making a dialog, but it’s visually going to be obstructing content, that’s more like a flyout…but you would probably want to close it out when it loses focus or when focus is given to something else.
  36. [garcialo] It might be better to just kind of add a section to the page in-line so that the user can go back and forth between it and that other page content.
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 22:17
    [stevenlambert] @garcialo ya its more like a flyout, but the closest thing i could think to make it a11y wise was a non-modal dialog. it's kinda like a bootstrap popover (https://v4-alpha.getbootstrap.com/components/popovers/) but contains more interactive content like buttons and links. its actually more akin to the twitter user hover card
  38. [ugi] @garcialo there is some old content (removed from the current version) that may be useful in W3C Aria Practices page. https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/aria-practices-DeletedSectionsArchive.html#dialog_nonmodal
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 22:25
    [ugi] @stevenlambert ^ (mentioned wrong person, sorry)
  40. [herin] @stevenlambert Googles compose gmail pop over is a non-modal. They do give options to user to open as pop over or inpage.
    I haven't thought about how the users know to switch between application and dialog.
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 22:30
    [herin] I am interested in this conversation too. Our design has something similar.
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jul 19 22:55
    [stevenlambert] @ugi the old content suggest f6 to move between application and dialog, but I haven't seen that implemented in anything