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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 2nd of August 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 14:06
    [mgifford] I contributed a bit to this news article about accessibility & employment http://www.metronews.ca/life/careers/2017/07/31/people-with-disabilities-feel-left-out-of-the-modern-digital-workplace.html
  2. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 15:32
    Is there a resource for differences in screenreader behavior for different html elements, aria, etc?
  3. I remember there being a support model for some of the aria attributes (similar to caniuse), but I'll be damned if I can find it
  4. nm; I found it buried in my favorites - https://www.powermapper.com/tests/screen-readers/
  5. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 15:40
    Anyone have experience with that piece of software (powermapper)?
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:08
    [schoeyfield] Huh. Is there a real guideline preventing the image alternate text to be something like “profile image of such and such” because it includes the word “image”?
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:14
    [garcialo] @schoeyfield When you say “guideline” do you mean WCAG or something similar?
  8. [garcialo] If so, then no. There is not one that specifically says to not use the word “image” in an alt text.
  9. [schoeyfield] So I was just pulled into another slack chat at work and some folks are like, “hey some universities submitted tickets about [such and such tool?] flagging <img ... alt="Profile image of so and so"> as an issue.
  10. [garcialo] yeah…I wouldn’t call that an issue
  11. [schoeyfield] Yyyeah me either. I was just having areal head scratcher.
  12. [schoeyfield] Okay so it looks like it’s coming from WAVE tool. “Suspicious” or “Redundant alt text”
  13. [garcialo] it’d probably be “cleaner” to have it be alt="profile of so and so" but I can’t think of any barriers created by including the word “image”
  14. [garcialo] is that listed in WAVE as an Error or a Warning?
  15. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:19
    Besides it's redundancy, there's no rule. However, remember that screenreader users are already inundated with a lot of text/information and anything you can do to streamline is preferable.
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:19
    [johnbhartley] also if the image and text of the person are linked separately you may consider combining the links to prevent redundancy and then you could pretty much make the alt text alt="" unless there is added value in stating that it's the profile picture of that person
  17. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:20
    I would say it's 'best practice' to not include words like image, graphic, etc. in alt text because the screenreader will say "image [then read the alt text]"
  18. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:20
    [garcialo] I think there is value in communicating that it’s a profile picture…since it provides context without having to be overly descriptive
  19. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:21
    I'm not sure there is value in "profile image of so and so" in comparison to just alt="[person's name]"
  20. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:22
    [garcialo] Yeah, you should try to avoid redundancy, but I would likely deprioritize those issues in favor of other issues
  21. [garcialo] you could also do “headshot of so and so” - I think the value add comes from being able to tell what kind of picture it is
  22. [schoeyfield] This totally mirrors the the discussion in the other channel I’m in :). Great, thanks for confirming my gut feeling, and yeah we’re totally in on finding the right right phrasing to prevent redundancy.
  23. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:24
    I would say that's only true if there are other images of the person, but if it is a singular image, i don't believe there is much value in the "type of photo"
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:24
    [garcialo] yeah, I’d agree with that as well
  25. [garcialo] depending on the context where the images are presented…like a photo roster, I think it could be presumed that they’re headshots/profiles/etc.
  26. [garcialo] unless some of them were non-traditional

  27. [schoeyfield] I think Jason’s

    I’m not sure there is value in “profile image of so and so” in comparison to just alt=“[person’s name]”
    Makes a lot of sense. Consider that the screen reader pretty much says “IMAGE: Santa Claus”.

  28. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:26
    Exactly. If you were to look at linkedin and every image in the "people you may know" list read "profile image of so and so" over and over again - it would be an awful experience
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:45
    [stevenlambert] I have just learned that lists with css list-style: none or display: inline-block do not read as lists to VoiceOver in Safari (http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/201109/screen_readers_list_items_and_list-stylenone/). Is there a workaround that preserves the screen readers ability to read it as a list while still allowing me to style it without the bullets?
  30. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:47
    role="list", role="listitem"?
  31. although, have you tested that? The article is from 2011
  32. I'm not sure it's still an issue
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:48
    [stevenlambert] it’s still an issue today with VoiceOver
  34. [stevenlambert] i haven’t tested putting the role explicitly one it
  35. Jason Day
    @jasonday
    Aug 02 18:48
    Voiceover mac, or iOS?
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 18:49
    [stevenlambert] mac
  37. [stevenlambert] awesome, putting role="list" on the list will preserve the list semantics while still allowing the css
  38. [stevenlambert] thanks
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 20:09
    [ghanek] FYI, the Web Developer extension for Chrome, was compromised earlier today via the author getting spearphished, and version 0.4.9 was injecting adware and analytics scripts in to any website visited. Seems to have been cleaned up with version 0.5. This is the official port of the Web Developer extension for Firefox. Some may be using some of the features as part of a11y testing.
    from the author https://twitter.com/chrispederick/status/892768218162487300
  40. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Aug 02 20:38
    [ted_drake] Joshue O Connor discusses the gulf of execution and evaluation in his book on HTML5 accessibility. Do you know of any additional articles on this in relation to accessibility?