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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 10th of October 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 07:27
    [jv] Should I not use ALT on SVG?
  2. [jv] > Attribute alt not allowed on element svg at this point.
  3. [jv] Get this in W3C validator
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 08:35
    [erik] Alt is not a valid attribute for <svg> - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/SVG/Element/svg
  5. [erik] For a text alternative, I think this page is still accurate: https://www.sitepoint.com/tips-accessible-svg/
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 12:32
    [veyfeyken] If the svg is a simple image (a logo) and you don't need to 'animate' a certain part of the image, the most robuust and accessible way is to simple refer to it in the source attribute and give it an alt-attribute. I think.
  7. [veyfeyken] <img src="logo.svg" alt="logo" />
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 14:37

    [blind3y3design] @veyfeyken using an svg ad the src for an img tag greatly reduces the flexibility and usefulness of having it be an svg in the first place.

    One of the many reasons to use the svg block element is to allow for the ability to modify the svg itself with css (color, size, transition, etc). If you're using SVG elements in your designs/development you should be taking the extra time to be adding in the proper title and description to the svg itself.

  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 15:26
    [veyfeyken] I agree. Just giving options. Screenreader support isn't there yet. So if you're not doing anything fancy pancy, just want vector scaling and a11y is top priority, svg in the source attribute does the trick.
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 15:34
    [lauraf] I have an odd instance with jaws interacting strangely with our aria menus; we have appropriately marked up menus, but if we have a label element anywhere on the page that doesn't contain an explicit "for=" on it, that label overrides what is read out in the menus. If we put a "for=" on the label this behavior stops. Just wondering if anyone else has run into something like this
  11. [lauraf] specific to IE and jaws
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 15:58
    [ghanek] Two months ago, Tink & Marcy mentioned some things to keep in mind regarding SVGs and title.
    Oh wait. Apparently I did make some notes http://test-cases.tink.uk/svg-title/
  13. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Oct 10 16:02
    Does anyone know if aXe will be updated to work with Firefox 57?
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 16:07
    [starla175] What the heck is going on with Amazon?!?
  15. [starla175] I’m returning something, so just for kicks, I tried to tab through their return mailing label page. I couldn’t. The only thing I was able to tab to was their search bar. When I looked at their code… I see they’re using tab index, and everything is in a <div> or <span>. Also, if you turn off styles, a bunch of images appear with image maps for “hot spots”!
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 16:44
    [laura.ciporen] Hi, all. I have an <aside> question: Sometimes we have a running page of content and in the middle of it we have some interesting, related information that would have been in a sidebar if we had this content in print. It's pretty much the definition of an aside/complementary content. HOWEVER, it seems to me that having a screen reader announce content as being an aside isn't all that helpful if you can't choose to skip over it to get back to the core content. So I've been trying to figure out how to do that and have come up empty. Does anyone have any ideas? Has anyone run into this before? I thought that using region/landmarks navigation would work, since asides are regions/landmarks but that doesn't skip over the aside, it just goes to the next fully-defined region on the page. THANKS!
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 17:21
    [svinkle] @lauraf Sounds super bizarre! Never experienced that one. Having an explicit for is never a bad thing, able to go with that solution? Curious; which version of JAWS+IE?
  18. [svinkle] @powrsurg Best to ask @marcysutton :)
  19. [svinkle] @starla175 What the fudge? Pretty wonky markup you’ve found. I’ve not heard anything but that’s rather disappointing to see.
  20. [marcysutton] > Does anyone know if aXe will be updated to work with Firefox 57?
    Yes, it will, it's already in progress.
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 17:27
    [ugi] @lauraf yes, a similar thing happened on a login form (inside a modal dialog) I was working on. There was a checkbox with an implicit label “remember me”, all the form fields inside form was read as “remember me”. Fixed by using explicit labels. I always thought it was because the form was inside a modal dialog (and JAWS doesn’t play well with dialogs), it’s interesting that same hing is happening on a regular page.
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 17:41
    [svinkle] @laura.ciporen One option that comes to mind would be to have the aside element “below” the main content, but positioned to right the side where required. This way folks get to the main content as you’d prefer, then can bypass the aside content if desired.
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 18:07
    [lauraf] @svinkle IE 11.6, jaws 18.0. We can put a for=, but I'd kinda like to know what is happening so the error doesn't appear on random pages if someone on our site doesn't have one.
  24. [svinkle] Absolutely, the for is just a bandaid solution. I’d like to know myself.
  25. [svinkle] Might be worth while to open a new issue: https://github.com/FreedomScientific/VFO-standards-support/issues
  26. [laura.ciporen] Thanks for replying, @svinkle. Unfortunately, we can't move the aside to the end as it would completely lose its relevance if not placed within the regular content. It is strange that there isn't a clear way to skip past the asides that are within an article since the spec talks about that being a good use for them but marking them as only semi-relevant content doesn't actually do anything..
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 18:16

    [svinkle] @laura.ciporen Hmm, well this also may not be ideal, but you could implement a visually hidden skip link? Something like: 

    <article>   <p>content…</p>   <a href="#afterAside" class="visuallyhidden">skip past aside</a>   <aside>     <p>content…</p>   </aside>   <p id="afterAside">content…</p> </article>

    Kinda messy but the idea is to provide a mechanism to skip past the content or screen reader users, this might work?

    But yeah, would be nice to have things implemented as the spec indicates.

  28. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 18:21
    [laura.ciporen] @svinkle Yeah, so far I think I'm stuck with either that or not actually marking them up as asides and just having hidden text that says something to the effect of "Start related content" then the stuff that would have been an aside then "End related content" so users could search for "end" to skip over it. That would probably work better than the links since internal page links are notoriously finicky with screen readers in that they visually jump you to the right spot but don't always jump your reading cursor there.

  29. [svinkle] @laura.ciporen Good point re: cursor, I should have added: 

    <p id="afterAside" tabindex="-1">content…</p>

    This moves focus to the new point in the document.

  30. [laura.ciporen] @svinkle good point, I don't think I've tested whether adding those tabindexes is accepted in our authoring code...
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 18:57
    [lauraf] I tested on the accessible jquery examples page and saw it did the same thing there with IE; use inspector to label in the text above, then navigate to the menu items below. In that instance it reads the label along with the list item name. https://hanshillen.github.io/jqtest/#goto_menubar
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 19:20
    [jv] Is there any rule in USA that bigger companies should buy accessible softwares only so everyone can work for them?
  33. [jv] Do companies prefer to buy accessible softwares?
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 19:36

    [blind3y3design] @jv the ADA and ADAAA require any business that employs more than 15 people to:

    provide “reasonable accommodation” to qualified individuals with disabilities who are employees or applicants for employment—unless such accommodation would cause the employer an “undue hardship.

  35. [jv] but what if employer has no disabled employee
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 19:51
    [blind3y3design] Then they do not have to purchase those tools. But if they do end up having one; they'll need to aquire them
  37. [eric] you’ll probably be happy your workplace made concessions beforehand if your leg gets broken and you need crutches
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 19:58

    [blind3y3design] There are certain physical disability-related regulations that you are supposed to meet regardless of whom you employ, or who your intended customer is.

    Section 302 & 303 of the ADA are all about regulations and requirements about changes in elevation

  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 21:23
    [morgan] Hi there, what is a good practice to markup a list of languages that are displayed in there ISO form like: en, fr, de... My issue is that VO does not read them letter by letter what may confuse the user
  40. [morgan] Would using the abbr tag be a correct practice?
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 10 23:49
    [ugi] @morgan probably not the best practice for many reasons.. but this works in VO
  42. [ugi] Untitled