Meeting minutes
<LaurentLM> https://
LaurentLM: Updated annotation use case document with new use cases for audio and threads
… nothing about annotating annotations themselves yet, no consensus
… can we move on now and focus on requirements ?
… no comment, so let's focus on requirements
Requirements
LaurentLM: First list of requirements for annotation types
ivan: these are not annotation types, they're locators
LaurentLM: agree, let's rename them to locator types
LaurentLM: Annotation formatting covers rich text and tags (keywords)
ivan: They're different
Hadrien: We're missing progression in a resource as a locator type, this is needed for bookmarks, we can't use text selection for that
… bookmarking is an intent, shouldn't be its own section
LaurentLM: it's a looser way to point into a resource, using a %
ivan: the term "progression" doesn't feel like the right fit
LaurentLM: Annotation is the overall term, and then we have highlights and bookmarks for annotation types
Hadrien: what about citations ?
LaurentLM: they're an export option for highlights, rather than an annotation type
gautierchomel: Bookmarks should not be restricted to reflowable content
… for locator types, a bookmark is a "point" whereas the other ones can be a "range"
… for annotation content we could have a lot more, including multimedia (sound, video, image)
… there's a real-life use case for this, it's available in specialized reading systems
LaurentLM: is there a consensus to allow audio notes?
ivan: yes
LaurentLM: let's add audio notes and image notes
… let's go back to support for notes on bookmarks, is this a good idea?
Dale: Are we including bookmarks in annotations? This feels broader than what I would normally consider to be an "annotation"
… is an annotation anything that the user is adding?
LaurentLM: yes it's anything that a user can add and exchange
… there's a broader meaning and a more specific one, we're working with the broader one
… maybe we need to rename our work, but it could be a bit long if we list everything
Dale: is a note/annotation anything that people "write" then?
LaurentLM: yes, and that even includes audio/images/video, not just what a user "writes"
Hadrien: what about the last reading location in a publication?
… it's not something that you "write" but the user wants this info to be exchanged
LaurentLM: I'm in favor of supporting this use case as well
Dale: Where is this going to be? In an EPUB, outside an EPUB?
… I'm worried about a conflict if we use terms like "bookmarks" if the feature already exists
Hadrien: we're talking about bookmarks in the same way, if I read on device A, I want to bring my bookmarks to device B
… conflicts are something we'll need to deal with, this is not specific to bookmarks
LaurentLM: our goal is to allow RS to export what they're already doing
… they already have bookmarks, highlights and notes, we're looking at a way to serialize and exchange them
… we need names for these things
Dale: it might not be a 1 to 1 equivalent to how things are named between our work and RS, but it should work anyway
ivan: we have to be careful, because we already have requirements that some RS do not support (yet?)
… I don't know any RS capable of image notes for example
… we have to be careful with our requirements, otherwise they won't be implemented
LaurentLM: we're trying to have a full view of what's possible and then figure out what's implemented later for a v1
Hadrien: image notes are widely implemented because of stylus support and eTablets like ReMarkable for example
… they capture the "view" of what you're reading with handwritten notes on top of it as an image/bitmap
gautierchomel: I think there is a need to add notes to a bookmark
LaurentLM: have you seen it on any other RS than Thorium?
… is this supported in Zotero for example?
ajellinek: we don't have bookmarks at the moment
gautierchomel: this is supported in PDF reading systems
ivan: this is where the terminology doesn't work for me
… body might be different things, annotation types seems to be a combination instead of standing on its own
… the real question is what's the locator and content? We might not need annotation types at all
LaurentLM: but we'll explicitly need to say that something is a bookmark
gautierchomel: I prefer Hadrien's take on this, calling them intents instead of annotation types
ajellinek: I'm wondering how we're defining things, I don't like highlights here because in Zotero's terminology this is how we visually present text selection
… for example we can have underline as well
LaurentLM: we can review this another time, next call for example
… let's cover export and import
… we need embedded support, exporting as standalone files and importing
Hadrien: going back to bookmarks, just wanted to say that they're widely implemented in audiobook players as well
… we've implied that this is mostly about "books" and text, but that's incorrect
Dale: When we talk about bookmarks, are we talking about a label for a given location?
… I'm not seeing bookmarks in locator types, don't we need something?
LaurentLM: a bookmark is more than a locator, it has additional properties: label, color etc.
… we've added a locator type that works well with them, just need to clarify this better
… for now it's called "progression" here
<ivan> The Web Annotation Model introduction
ivan: it's worth going back to the Web Annotation Model, we've already discussed these separate concerns before