Meeting minutes
Wendy Reid: @ivan noticed that we have 44 outstanding issues, we have closed 2, so let's take a look at some of the older ones
Issue #428 - w3c/epub-specs#428
Wendy Reid:
… this issues is about media overlays and the pause class
… this was deferred. No work hasn't been done since an earlier discussion
Brady Duga: The media pause makes sense, on a previous project we wished we had it. I'm not sure there is still a desire for it
… but we should pause this if there are no implementers interested in it
… can we pause this since there is no community interest?
Wendy Reid: we have already marked this issue deferred
… so keeping the issue open isn't helping anyone
… perhaps we could close the issue and open a new one if an implementer wants it in the future
Avneesh Singh: perhaps we can give notice and then close the issue in two weeks if there is no response
Gautier Chomel: this may run into complications with reading systems allowing users to specify styles
… I think we should make a note of this and then close the issue
Wendy Reid: I like AvneeshSingh approach, add a comment like "speak now" or we will close it
Shinya Takami: We can simply close this and see if there is any reaction
Wendy Reid: The problem with just closing it is that it might be overlooked since the issue is so old
… we have over 2500 issues in our repository, most of which are closed
*wendyreid added a comment to #428 asking for comments before closing the issues
Issue #2216 - w3c/epub-specs#2216
<Wendy Reid> w3c/
Wendy Reid: Issue 2216 this is concerning language we use to describe creators may be a little to narrow
Matt Garrish: I think people are not confused about the difference between "must" and "epub creators must set it"
… we don't really have the time to rewrite all of the specifications when the issue was raised
… how much time will this take vs the benefits it will bring
Brady Duga: I agree with Matt Garrish, I don't think anyone will notice and this change won't improve any ebooks
… at the same time, the language is wrong, and it bugs me
… we don't care if the creator adds the metadata, we just want to be sure it is there
… but on the other hand, no one has ever gotten this wrong
Gautier Chomel: I see confusion about who is the "creator" when I am doing trainings.
… I would like to see that addressed
… I think it would be worth the work
Avneesh Singh: can we do this in EPUB 3.4 or not?
Wendy Reid: or can we do this in Accessibiliy 1.2
Avneesh Singh: can we take this on in the time frame we have?
Wendy Reid: we haven't seen confusion in the past, but we may see it in the future
… we spend a lot of time with the spec, but most people rely on the tools or the trainings
… as long as those are clear, is this really required
Matt Garrish: the problem hasn't been in how we word things
… the definition of "epub creator" is more the problem
… maybe there is a compromise in looking at that definition rather than rewriting all the specifications
Brady Duga: You just made a good case for rewriting it
… we've spent years trying to define "creator"
… maybe we should try to get rid of it
… but because of the timeline, maybe we just defer this again until epub accessibility 1.3
Matt Garrish: maybe we start with the accessibility specs and see how much is involved
… then if it is too complex we can dump out of it
Wendy Reid: I like that approach. Try in the accessibility document first
… to see how hard it is to make the change
… see how useful it is in 1.2 and abandon it if it is too hard
Matt Garrish: I don't mind taking a stab at this and seeing how it goes
Issue #2508 - w3c/epub-specs#2508
Wendy Reid: we talked about this before 3.3 was published
… it didn't make sense to put it into 3.3 in a rush
… mostly it was about datasets that could be used in scripts
… should we close this? Epub check already has notifications for this
Matt Garrish: we added the ability for things to travel in the container without being in the manifest
… EPUB check does flag this if they appear to not being used
… I don't think anyone has complained about unused issues being flagged in EPUB check
<Romain Deltour> I confirm, no feedback related to that received in EPUBCheck
Matt Garrish: Perhaps we could close it off and wait until there is a complaing
Gautier Chomel: for demonstration I had an EPUB with a resource linked in the metadata
… and that's when it happened to me
… but this is an edge case
Brady Duga: I think cleaning up people's unused files is beyond the scope of the spec
… I bet most publishers send EPUBs with unused fonts
… we could write something that finds those and it would save us lots of file size
<Romain Deltour> for the record, the current behavior in EPUBCheck was implemented and described in that PR: w3c/
Brady Duga: I don't see the utility for this
Dale Rogers: Is there a use case for something that needs to be there and is not referenced?
Wendy Reid: the case gautierchomel brought up is probably the most common
… so the certifier report may need to be hidden from the reader
Matt Garrish: one use case is a dataset that travels with a scientific publication that may be needed by the user
Romain Deltour: in anycase epub check cannot verify a resource that is used as a script
… if we add this rule it cannot be enforced by epub check
Brady Duga: I propose we close the issue
wendreid: yes, let's close it until someone comes to us with a clear use case and a proposal for fixing it, this looks like a black hole
… is anyone opposed to closing it?
Wendy Reid: I will close the issue since no one is objecting
Issue #2641 - w3c/epub-specs#2641
Wendy Reid: this is opened by someone running into inconsistency in footnotes among browsers
… I don't think there is anything we can do spec-wise to fix this
… but we have talked about writing and testing best practices for footnotes and similar
<Brady Duga> +1
Wendy Reid: I'd like to close this in favor of our other issue to write something about this
<Susan Neuhaus> +1
<Dale Rogers> +1
<Matt Garrish> +1
<Shinya Takami> +1
Wendy Reid: alright
… we're closing it
Issue #2664 - w3c/epub-specs#2664
wendreid: we don't have playorder officially from documents since we got rid of the NCX
… playorder is inferred from the spine
Brady Duga: I assumed this was to put play order inside elements within the document?
wendreid: are they talking about reading order within the HTML itself, that comes from the DOM
Matt Garrish: without George here we aren't sure
Gautier Chomel: maybe we can tag it with fixed layout
… in my experience in training, we have never had a problem with at fixed layout reading order
… it is doable for now
… let's tag it for fxl and discuss it in the fxl a11y context
Wendy Reid: yes, let's do that
Gautier Chomel: if you have two html files, and the title is part on one page, and part on the other, you may need to do this
… but it can be achieved with code now
Matt Garrish: this sounds like rendition mapping
… he wants to move from fxl to something else
… which is a huge issue we've never solved
… and he wants a new mechanism for moving around within content
Wendy Reid: I'll leave this alone until we can talk to George
… are there any more things to discuss
Gautier Chomel: some of the issue topics can be pushed into discussion
Wendy Reid: we didn't consider that, we didn't have that option in Github before
… we have used issues for everything. Now that we do have discussions as an option
… we could explore this
… we could set up guidelines about when to set up a discussion and when to open an issue
Avneesh Singh: multiple channels of communication can be trouble
… we already have internal reading list, public reading list
Susan Neuhaus: What is the functional difference between a discussion and an issue in GH that makes discussions a better idea?
Wendy Reid: discussions are designed to be a bit more like talking to people
… the accessibility group uses them, responses can be threaded
… one of the problems can be hard to follow comments when they overlap
… it makes for a better flow of discussions
Matt Garrish: the threaded replies don't always work the way they are intended
… we would want some guidance for people about when to open discussions and how to respond
… if you don't have a specific problem you want addressed in the spec it makes sense to set up a discussion even if the discussion threading isn't perfect
Wendy Reid: I'll do some research on GH about discussions
… this might be more geared toward opensource projects
… there is some merit giving people space to ask a question that isn't a direct issue
AOB
Wendy Reid: is there anything else people wanted to talk about?
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