Meeting minutes
Laurent Le Meur: user requirements - use of "locator" its called in W3C it's called 'selector'
… fixed some renumbering. this is all I done in UCR.
… UCR document is sufficient to announce our profile to W3C annotations.
Ivan Herman: do we want to publish the Note?
Laurent Le Meur: not yet.
… in UCR we want to say which requirement is a must have.
Laurent Le Meur: how do we write the profile, do we have help from Matt or not? What help can we have for this writing.
Hadrien Gardeur: UCR: I have cold feet - last reading location, I understand the need but the work we are doing is not aligned with that one. I think that is transient info. I see interest in doing that but could see it done in other means.
Laurent Le Meur: DAISY ODP in DAISY world is a last reading location its at the cataloged protocol.
<Hadrien Gardeur> https://
Hadrien Gardeur: but Bookshare API does have this affordance.
<Hadrien Gardeur> https://
Laurent Le Meur: we can ask the DAISY folks, Avneesh.
<Hadrien Gardeur> https://
Laurent Le Meur: Can we have help from Matt?
Ivan Herman: depends on what help?
… Matt is potentially overloaded at this point and there may be ISO work for him to do as well.
Laurent Le Meur: Not worried about the pure writing of the spec per-say.
… the structure of the document is what is more concerning.
… we define the overall structure of the document.
… the def. of the structure would be helpful to get.
Charles: Matt may have the boiler plate for this.
Laurent Le Meur: Its not really the boilerplate its more the structure of the document itself.
Ivan Herman: we do have other notes which can be used as a start.
Laurent Le Meur: do we have a W3C template which defines a template of a profile?
Ivan Herman: not recently.
… term "profile" is not a defined term, we can do what we want. we should try to minimize the spec and try not to repeat things.
Laurent Le Meur: biggest part of the spec will be around 'selectors'
Ivan Herman: overall structure is the same, these are the selectors we will use some will come from text others we will define locally.
Laurent Le Meur: this is why we will reuse the vocab of the original spec.
… # of entities annotation is a resource, its also a body, target and selector. So the vocab should be simple.
… what constitutes our profile, its very wide when we speak about annotations spec the body of the annotation could be 0..n can have several bodies.
… annotation can have 1 to many targets.
Ivan Herman: one idea - follow the structure the annotation spec itself, in the annotation spec we talk about body etc. in our case its only 0 / 1. following the same structure of the toc level. would help folks refer to the original spec.
Laurent Le Meur: map the spec to the use cases define some other terms, we speak about highlights, notes, etc. there is an easy mapping. if an annotation has no body this is a highlight or a bookmark.
… if an annotation has 1 body then we can say its a note.
… we have sub terms for note, highlight and bookmark.
… the content of the body is a note. is a type of annotation.
Ivan Herman: when we write it down is where we will determine if this structure will work or not.
… What about JSON/LD encoding?
Laurent Le Meur: in a sense.
… the W3C spec JSON/LD can be very huge and w3c ann spec restricts/ subset.
… its really JSON lite.
Ivan Herman: in this case maybe we should add a schema.
Laurent Le Meur: JSON schema would be good to add yes.
… something formal to add to the spec.
Ivan Herman: in theory any JSON can be represented in Schema.
Hadrien Gardeur: I think you can do a broad schema for JSON/LD
… there are some reserve values.
Ivan Herman: the JSON schema can define this thing. JSON Schema was a moving target it should be more stable.
Laurent Le Meur: we can talk about the structure of what we will have. A header, body and target.
… Header - w3c annotation header with the context
… its 1 context http...
<Hadrien Gardeur> +1 for simpler context AND JSON Schema for our work
Ivan Herman: the context file in annotation spec is very complex.
Laurent Le Meur: iri there is a type there is a creator modifier and modified.
… we can have a motivation in the header. one value is "bookmarking" should we define sub-types? different sets?
<Hadrien Gardeur> +1 for an enum of motivations in our spec and JSON Schema
Laurent Le Meur: should we subtypes note, bookmark, highlight, maybe motivation types.
… w3c annotations no notion of notes / highlights.
Ivan Herman: if it makes it easier thats fine.
Hadrien Gardeur: an ENUM would be important and in JSON schema. dev. only read JSON schema.
… what is tuff, selecting text, highlighting it then bookmarking it. we may not be able to differentiate.
… small lists well documented.
Abe Jellinek: agree keep it small and let folks do what they want highlight / underlines
… I don't want separate motivations, in our models we will define which is which.
Ivan Herman: motivation can be used for this.
Laurent Le Meur: user has selected something but didn't add a note so its a simply annotations. the color highlight properties is a broad term and doesn't describe the visualization but describes the structure.
Laurent Le Meur: if we agree about the shape of the header, I can write something about that. then there is the target.
… multiformat target:URL, target:object with id, or source, many things in the target. choose if we want, but validated by schema. simple structure always a target or flexible object or url, what properties should we keep?
… Readium target can have source and some metadata defined elsewhere. defined as simple.
… item in the spine and selector is the annotation for the source.
Ivan Herman: closed world having a URL does not make a lot of sense.
Laurent Le Meur: said in req. we may want to have the target of one annotation can be another annotation.
… if we want to refer to another annotation we use the ID not source/selector
Ivan Herman: how to define the URL is restricted to a URL to another annotations we don't want to allow a URL to my home page for example.
… we define annotations URL scheme for annotations themselves.
Laurent Le Meur: UUID is used in Readium.
… 4 blocks with hyphen in the middle.
… defining the selector will be a little tricky
… choose the formats of the text, might be HTML / markup if its not a text image video audio, we will need a URL which points to what?
Ivan Herman: do we want version 1 to do that?
Laurent Le Meur: No.
Ivan Herman: HTML fragments is doable. but an annotation to a video could be difficult.
Laurent Le Meur: overall structure we just need to know the pointer type.
Ivan Herman: EPUB if its a video then video must be part of the EPUB package.
Laurent Le Meur: for audio annotations its my voice recorded as the annotation.
… deaf I use sign language as the video annotation
Ivan Herman: that means adding a new file to the EPUB.
Abe Jellinek: it would be unlikely to add that in our system.
… image annotations would be difficult.
Laurent Le Meur: we remove it from the use case?
Ivan Herman: use cases are OK.
Laurent Le Meur: we don't remove from UC, but if the annotation is on the web and can b a URL.
Ivan Herman: by talking a reader can conversion from audio to text the audio doesn't have to be stored potentially.
Hadrien Gardeur: there are ecosystems that specialize in that. kindle scribe. in their case working with image is the most natural thing. we are missing representation, but maybe they are not interested in interoperability.
… there are an increasing # of those devices.
Abe Jellinek: distinction image and drawing on a screen, we would like to allow for ink annotations - relation to the text, circle something positioning to reflow able content is not really possible. especially when screen size changes. vs. attaching a image, but ink annotations are much smaller.
Hadrien Gardeur: depends on how you store it, context fore reflowable depends on user settings font size spacing etc.
… both the annotation and the text being annotated and stored together as an image. this is one way to get it out of a specialized ecosystem.
… something to consider.
Abe Jellinek: 1/2 solution we would like to show something you draw on the page, but when you resize things not sure how we would show something on the page in a seamless way. maybe as a popup.
Ivan Herman: didn't Edge do this before switching to chromium.
Hadrien Gardeur: I know some of them doesn't do well with reflowable content for anchored annotations.
Laurent Le Meur: I can start writing something. maybe before TPAC.
… maybe file structure.
Ivan Herman: I won't be there. too late for me at that time.
Brady will be around and Hadrien.
Abe Jellinek: I hope to be there virtually.
Charles will be remote hope to be there.
Laurent Le Meur: We will look at this and the w3c annotation spec during TPAC.
Ivan Herman: TF are freely managed by the WG.
Hadrien Gardeur: if we feel we need a new TF we can create one.
Ivan Herman: yes the Chairs will need to set that up.